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What would you do?

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What would you do?

Old 26th Sep 2007, 07:55
  #1 (permalink)  
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What would you do?

I was recently required to train a guy to fly single pilot in a twin turboprop below the minimum safe altitude for IFR in the mountains at night. He claimed to have 4000hrs. I knew pretty quickly that he was lying so looked into his background. It turns out that he has had his CPL for less than two years, most of his cv claims are bogus and from what I can tell he has only got about 400hrs. Not being able to find an airport with a GPS was a pretty big give away, his reply was that he was used to a moving map. I have contacted a lot of people mentioned on his cv and in verbal claims so know that what I think is true.

I can't let this go but no one seems to care enough to stop him.
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Old 26th Sep 2007, 08:08
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i would think this would be a no-brainer. If he's lying about his time; he'll be lying about a lot more in the future. Why risk a flying airplane on some bozo who isn't patient enough to wait until he's fully qualified and competent.

you should, however, do so in a professional manner. At least confront him about your suspicions, and go through the chain of command.

It actually reminds me of the story in "Fate is the hunter" about the captain who completely embelleshed his resume and ended up killing himself and a few others. Wish i had the book with me at work i'd be able to recall some more of the details of the story.
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Old 26th Sep 2007, 08:09
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Yes must inform the next in the chain of command at your organisation of your objections in writing, eg email, and copy all management in. That would be the first step, then discontinue his training. That way you will sleep better at night.

My "yard stick" for what it is worth is this. I won't sign a person off unless I can sleep at night with that person at the controls of the aircraft with my wife and kids on board.
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Old 26th Sep 2007, 08:16
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You're probably training him for illegal drug running operations, or worse. You have an obligation to report to appropriate authorities. If they choose not to take it further, it's no longer your problem.
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Old 26th Sep 2007, 08:17
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I didnt sign him off and he no longer works for us. The problem is no one seems to care, I have done the above. I think he has got a new job in the left seat of an ATR!!!

It is my problem as I know what he is doing.

Unfortunatly not running drugs as that would be more exciting and pay better.
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Old 26th Sep 2007, 11:16
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I think you have a moral duty to shop the basterd to the authorities in your country,its people like that,that give us a bad name! If you don't want to do it send me his details as I certainly will!
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Old 26th Sep 2007, 11:23
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Contact whoever he is working for now, and do it urgently. Hopefully their training dept will already have found out that he is a walt, but you can't be sure. I once found a serious case of log book faking from a chance meeting with an aquaintence of the faker. We axed the guy on the spot, he was offered a "gentlemans way out of the situation" which he refused. (basically come up with the true numbers and we will P2 you and give you a second chance to build up the hours and earn promotion) We went to the CAA and reported him, nothing happened so we spread his name as far around the industry as we could using the old mates network. As far as I am aware, he as never worked since and now tells people that he has a long term medical problem.
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Old 26th Sep 2007, 17:00
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From your post I guess I would be correct in saying that you are an instructor/examiner of some type. Therefore, I would not only be prudent to complain about this individual, but I believe there is a positive obligation on your part to complain about this guy.

It is essential that you be completely transparent and put your greviences with this individual on the record by way of writing or email to your senior in command. If nothing is done keep shouting until someone listens.

If this guy does fudge up in a big way you can rest assured that you have taken all reasonable steps to bring his lack of experience, to say the least, to the attention of your superiors.
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Old 26th Sep 2007, 21:27
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IFR, below MSA in mountains, night. You wouldn't happen to be training him for private military support ops in Afghanistan or similar would you.

Can't think of much else that would fit that bill. I would think that those flying with him would have enough risk on their plate without this as well. Perhaps just let them know, and they might have a little accidental weapons discharge
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 04:30
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Nothing to do with the military. Thought I would say what we are doing as it just highlights the total stupidity of the guy to lie to get a job that puts himself in that sort of situation. I cannot think of many other jobs that would be more hazardous to himself and the guys in the back. Don't want to go into specifics as it seems to be frowned upon in the forum. We do have clearance to operate as we are in the country we are in, nothing dodgy.
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 04:36
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Absolutely bloody report him right NOW!!

To CAA, his employer (an airline?) and even the Police if you have to!

This guy will end up killing someone. Not if. When.

Could be me and my kids standing underneath him when he f**ks up - you want that sort of thing on your conscience?

Do it. No brainer.
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 05:42
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What are the legal issues with posting someones name on this site. I understand about deformation of character but am 100% sure that what I am saying is correct. Can I or PPRuNe get into trouble? I initially did not want him knowing that it was I who was thinking about starting the ball rolling on him but now don't really care, my main worry is that he is a bit of a weirdo and I don't know what he may do. The thought of him continuing what he is doing out ways my own concerns and I had already decided that before starting this thread as it will be blatantly obvious to him who I am if he reads it. I confronted him in an email about his history and asked him to come clean with my boss and apologies then to go out and get a job without lying. I got no reply. I have just noticed pictures on his web page of an ATR simulator that he claims is on the type course which he is currently doing.

Anyone know of an ATR sim with a red inop sticker above the black square cockpit door button?
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 06:26
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Flying anything in the mountains at night below safe IFR altitude seems a trifle similar to winging one's way through the skyscrapers in the dark, doesn't it?

In the USA there would be a mandatory obligation to report him to the authorities for suspicious training activities? Such sensible and public spirited action is positively encouraged.

In the UK, perhaps the official line would be not to waste police time?

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Old 27th Sep 2007, 06:55
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Everyone is aware of the risks involved in what we are doing and we are not just blindly picking our way through the mountains. We obviously are not carrying unaware passengers. We have approval to do what we are doing and take the best precautions we can. If I thought there was a risk that we would plough into the side of a mountain I would certainly not be here. This is not the issue, I merely stated it as someone with very little experience should not find himself in such a situation but due to his lies he thought it would be a fun thing to do with total disregard for anyone else. He was just interested in what he could gain from it on a totally selfish and unprofessional level. Our training methods are not the issue, there is no better way to train someone for this type of job other than sitting with them for hours and hours actually doing what we are doing in the actual aircraft we use in the area we are operating in. If you have any suggestions on how we could do it better and safer I would be interested to hear them.
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 07:11
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Perhaps if all else is chukka pukka, his possible lack of experience might cause an aviation insurance company a raised eyebrow?
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 07:15
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I am sure it would, lucky he doesn't work for us anymore.
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 07:29
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Lightbulb

A report to the FBI or the overseas equivalent might recieve much more attention (whether he plans to fly drugs, weapons etc) than pilots received before 9/11. The FBI supervisors began to pay attention after that.

The guy might be hoping for a job flying weapons into various areas as a "soldier of fortune". I read about a 23-year Lockheed 'Connie' captain whose crew went once from Lisbon into Biafra in 1968. Where did such a very young pilot acquire such experience to fly into a 'hot' area at night in a complex old machine? The previous Connie crashed. In the photograph, his FO was decades older. They made one round-trip flight with NATO (7.62 mm) "surplus weapons" and made about $30,000.

A buddy (former P-3 pilot) was a US Customs pilot years ago on the Lockheed Electra. It is is possible that he, or a possible old contact, might arrive at a different conclusion than some of us.

You might be saving many lives if you persist very soon.
E-mail if you want me to call "^^ ! & #".
He lives in the same town (...a shame that he never used his Navy contacts to work for the single, very good company, across the 'field').
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 07:50
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Witht he greatest respect, if you know he is lieing and you don't tell officialdom and this guy crashes, killing pax, then I'm sorry to say you have blood on your hands.
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 07:58
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No one seems to care.
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 08:25
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Hi there

So just to recap, because I think some people may be getting confused.

You HAVE reported him to your local CAA Authority and they seem to be turning a blind eye.

You operate in a "Hot Spot" where your daily ops require this sort of training?

I know that quite a few ZS registered aircraft operate in Afghanistan and Iraq, flying passenger ops, is your outfit running along these lines?

If this guy is a bit of a nutter and you are in a said hotspot then I understand your problems and the fact that nobody there seems to give a damn!

Bad idea to put the chaps name on here though, for a number of reasons, one being, if he is a nutter maybe he decides to come after you and two in this rediculous world we live in it would not surprize me in the least if you end up in shite for doing it!

Can you not go the same "mate network" route to get his name passed around that way?

Is this guy in possesion of a JAR licence?
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