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The Climate Change debate

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The Climate Change debate

Old 3rd Oct 2011, 01:44
  #9181 (permalink)  
 
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Ahh, yes - global warming
sisemen sisemen sisemen.....

You know very well the catch cry has changed to "climate change" and is not "global warming". Its the sort of phrase which is good for all occasions.
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Old 3rd Oct 2011, 01:56
  #9182 (permalink)  
 
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There are people involved in the Occupy Wall Street Movement who include those who are watermellons. Do you think this is one objective of the astroturf movement?
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Old 3rd Oct 2011, 07:50
  #9183 (permalink)  
 
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rh200 added
"You know very well the catch cry has changed to "climate change" and is not "global warming". Its the sort of phrase which is good for all occasions.

I thought the latest iteration was "Climate Disruption" which includes all possible meteorological 'tipping point' eventualities, including an Ice Age which is actually Global Warming according to the Stupids who seem to have hidden agendas that use anything Green in order to gain control and subjugate the 'masses'.

I see we now have temperature records having to use decimal places to exceed the previous observation - I mean how dumb is a temperature record that gets broken by 0.2 degrees C? Who would be able to tell the difference! Who actually cares? The Warmists! Of course - silly me I should have known better!
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Old 3rd Oct 2011, 09:06
  #9184 (permalink)  
 
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Aviate, the point is that the measurements are supposed to be exact. It wouldn't inspire much confidence in the measurement systems if the scientists announced that "this year is, ooh, about one centigrade warmer. More or less.".
Also, you ask who cares? Apparently you do - otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it
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Old 4th Oct 2011, 17:44
  #9185 (permalink)  
 
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pp 8, Scientific American, October, 2011

Here, Michael Mann chooses to wax dismissive of his betters at Berkeley, and wanes defensively political when hoisting the "...science of human caused climate change...". Ever defensive of his Hockey Stick, he quotes whorish affirmations of his skulduggery in its promotion, and falsification, then scolds the SA to be better at taking every advantage of defending the indefensible.

"SCIENCE". Demonstrably, work that is based on computer modelling is by definition un scientific, it cannot be replicated, nor can it be linked to real data, it is isolated from the real world, BY DESIGN.

When falling back on harvested data that is sampled in the real world, we get an increase of 0.6 degrees C. in the last 125 YEARS.

Ocean Depth increasing? The US NAVY has determined that in the last 75 years, the depth of the Pacific Ocean has 'increased' by...... 4 millimeters.

Whilst eliminating sampling stations, AGW "scientists" are trumpeting greater accuracy, when common sense screams that adding stations would increase accuracy.


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Old 10th Oct 2011, 01:47
  #9186 (permalink)  
 
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Are there yobbos around down there who still believe the bogan's bullshit?

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Old 11th Oct 2011, 16:38
  #9187 (permalink)  
 
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Rivers of ice: Vanishing glaciers

Stunning images from high in the Himalayas - showing the extent by which many glaciers have shrunk in the past 80 years or so - have gone on display at the Royal Geographical Society in central London.
Between 2007 and 2010, David Breashears retraced the steps of early photographic pioneers such as Major E O Wheeler, George Mallory and Vittorio Sella - to try to re-take their views of breathtaking glacial vistas.

BBC News - Rivers of ice: Vanishing glaciers

Lid
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Old 11th Oct 2011, 22:02
  #9188 (permalink)  
 
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As of today, you can all relax... the world is now safe... global warming has been arrested - the Australian government is today tabling legislation that will introduce a $23.00 a tonne carbon tax.

The world will be doubly safe, because soon, no Australian will be able to afford to travel overseas, (except perhaps as an economic refugee)!!!
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Old 11th Oct 2011, 22:09
  #9189 (permalink)  
 
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When earth entered the Little Ice Age, mountain glaciers advanced. Since about 1850 when we left the Little Ice Age, glaciers have been retreating. In many cases retreating glaciers have revealed tree stumps and signs of human habitation, indicating they were smaller within recorded history. Glaciers advance and retreat. That's what they do.
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Old 11th Oct 2011, 22:46
  #9190 (permalink)  
 
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Irrespective of the climate change debate I don't believe that pumping masses of pollution into the atmosphere is a good thing. A few centuries ago it was the norm to throw all household and human refuse into the streets. I am sure there would have been those who objected to the imposition of taxes used to fund the construction of sewers and for refuse collection.

In the lifetime of many Ppruners it was the norm to pump all waste into rivers and watercourses, polluting them to the extent that all life therein became extinct. And rubbish was just piled into heaps that dotted rundown areas of cities. Governments, overtime, have put an end to these practises. But it must have come at a cost, taxes again.

Many cities still pump their raw sewerage into the sea, with outfalls constructed miles offshore in the hope that nature will deal with it, and we now bury our waste in huge pits. Again at a cost born by the population through taxes.

Now in the 21st century we are constantly exhorted to "recycle" as landfills fill up, and significant scientific efforts are being made to develop processes that seek to turn sewerage into usable fertilisers as places to dump it are decreasing.

I am sure that for many the sea is still seen as an acceptable place to dump our waste - "Hey it's huge init, no one will notice". Thats until you see the documentaries showing square miles of floating plastic out there, and see the wildlife dying through ingesting it.

Any attempts to control the masses of crap we pump into the air we breath will get my vote any day. Because, like the rivers we used to pollute where life became extinct, one day it will impact everyone and by then it may be too late.
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Old 12th Oct 2011, 01:54
  #9191 (permalink)  
 
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Alisoncc you confuse environmental improvements with this
global warming nonsense - they are two completely different
conceptions.

The environment is to do with the improvement in the quality
of water, air, surroundings, biological support etc conducive to
the human specie. I don't think anyone would disagree with
wanting cleaner air and fresh water and supporting those food
chain lower echelons that retain us humans at the top.

Global warming is the Socialist International agenda for the
redistribution of global wealth, i.e. to take wealth from poor
people in rich countries and hand it to rich people in poor but
mainly communist countries. The last time when SI flexed its
muscles was the DDT "scare" and was just as successful in
that as it is in this GW taxes crap.

If its for a meaningful environmental change then go for that,
but not under the guise of this GW idiocy - like you wouldn't
go for a stronger justice system favoring execution for rapists
and murderers by voting in some bloody islamic shariah party
now would you.
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Old 12th Oct 2011, 03:07
  #9192 (permalink)  
 
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Dear Mr Slasher,

my opening sentence stated
Irrespective of the climate change debate I don't believe that pumping masses of pollution into the atmosphere is a good thing.
So no I was not confusing
environmental improvements with this global warming nonsense
quite the opposite.

I am quite ambivalent about the causes of "climate change". There is sufficient scientific evidence to suggest that it is changing, and not for the better. As for the causes, I leave that to more astute minds than mine, but given the ability of the human species to s**t in it's own nest, excess carbon dioxide is a real possibility. But then again the changes could just be a function of a cycle of sunspot activity.

Read recently on the Beeb website that some species of a believed-extinct Sea Horse has been recently found in the Thames. It's only a few decades since it was considered injurious to a persons health to swim in any of the UK's rivers. So we can clean up our mess given the imperative.

People's activities will only change when the pain of continuing the status quo is more than the pain of change. So it has to be percieved as a painful process if it is considered necessary to get people to reduce their carbon footprint. Hopefully it won't be too bad.
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Old 12th Oct 2011, 04:49
  #9193 (permalink)  
 
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alisoncc
"There is sufficient scientific evidence to suggest that it is changing, and not for the better."

Alison,

Where is the evidence???? Please do not suggest Computer Models are 'evidence'.

Where are sea levels rising? Where does it say Carbon Dioxide is a poison [at levels in which we exist?]

Show pictures of 'square miles of floating plastic'?

You are not looking at historical records which show [ad nauseam] climatic conditions that exceed present day levels and yet were before 'King Coal Killed Civilisation.' Which it patently does not.

I'm all for Clean Air Acts etc but not Carbon Scams that squander money on utterly useless plans and thereby make taxpayers foot the bill.

Shades of Tulip Trading, Fool's Gold, South Sea Bubble etc.

We are after all a Carbon based life form.
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Old 12th Oct 2011, 05:23
  #9194 (permalink)  
 
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Someone should do some stats research to discover how long, on average, it is between someone in this thread saying "where's the evidence?" and the next.
It's interesting that there's 400-odd pages here and absolutely nothing has changed in terms of the debate going on.
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Old 12th Oct 2011, 06:36
  #9195 (permalink)  
 
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Simonpro
"It's interesting that there's 400-odd pages here and absolutely nothing has changed in terms of the debate going on."

Because not much has changed dramatically in terms of climate/weather. Nothing has exceeded what has been happening for the last 2000 years!

Is the myth that is Global Claptrap really causing sea levels to rise [stand up the Maldives
politicians and tell the truth!].
Where are the endangered Polar Bears? Where is any melting in the Arctic that is greater than has happened in centuries past.
Why do all climate alarmists scream that our climate/weather is approaching the "Tipping Point" when to any sane observer and non manipulator of actual data can see not a lot is happening?
Atlantic Hurricanes? On the increase/more severe? how long does it take for the Warmist penny to drop?
Mann, Hansen, Jones, Gore et al have a lot to answer for.
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Old 12th Oct 2011, 06:59
  #9196 (permalink)  
 
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Irrespective of the climate change debate I don't believe that pumping masses of pollution into the atmosphere is a good thing.
I take your point alison, sincerely, and yes, have to agree with you. However, all the oil and gas that lies in the earth's crust, and has lain, over the millenia, in the earths crust will get burned up and exhaust gasses emitted into the atmosphere as the earths crust subducts in tectonic plate movement.

it is a natural cycle of life and of nature. humans and their taxes are not going to change nature and planetary cycles.
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Old 12th Oct 2011, 12:32
  #9197 (permalink)  
 
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aviate:
Show pictures of 'square miles of floating plastic'?

and so on, pics or videos.

Slasher:
The last time when SI flexed its muscles was the DDT "scare"
Do you mean DDT is ok to be used? (agree with the rest, though)

A film I liked (about an hour and a half; if it's been in the thread, I'll remove the link. Maybe I just didn't find it):

(http://w w w.youtube.com/watch?v=jqxENMKaeCU remove www spaces, if it doesn't work)

Last edited by probes; 12th Oct 2011 at 12:45.
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Old 12th Oct 2011, 12:44
  #9198 (permalink)  
 
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Do you mean DDT is ok to be used?
Controversial point with over a million folk dying of malaria worldwide which DDT could help to alleviate.
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Old 12th Oct 2011, 12:47
  #9199 (permalink)  
 
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Well, yes, but that's about the only use that's really justified. Not for killing cabbage-worms.
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Old 12th Oct 2011, 16:23
  #9200 (permalink)  
 
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probie,
Thanks for that "Home" video link. Just watched all of it.

Somewhat tendentious in places (repeating the AGW mantras, especially towards the end), but it does concentrate on the main issue coming up.... water.

I noticed it doesn't dare to mention nuclear energy, or the basic problem of how to stop the planet's population from growing as it does.

CJ
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