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The Climate Change debate

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The Climate Change debate

Old 16th Sep 2011, 20:53
  #9141 (permalink)  
 
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So the BAS is using Green Garbage theories - for what purpose other than to get more funding but pretending that the Antarctic is melting due to mankind's CO2 output? That exists as a poor computer model prediction but the hard facts [before distortion by certain parties!] seem to point to a lack of temperature increase over the last decade and as for the myth that is the "Ozone Hole" being a result of mankind using fridges/air con/spray cans that surely is a joke!

What with all that garbage and people like Pen Hadow still claiming his Arctic expedition is helping science 'move forward' when will these academics finally realise they are about as accurate with their theories as Phlogiston was a scientific fact.

And AGW/ClimateChange/Disruption isn't as near reality as Phlogiston was!
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Old 16th Sep 2011, 22:11
  #9142 (permalink)  
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Cacophonix, all the snow and ice in the Antarctic can melt but that in no way proves that CO2 caused it.
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Old 16th Sep 2011, 23:52
  #9143 (permalink)  
 
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More interesting to me is the discovery of more underwater volcano's. That would tend to heat the area up a tad.
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Old 17th Sep 2011, 08:47
  #9144 (permalink)  
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None of the papers by Jones, Mann etc can be regarded as serious scientific papers, Trenberth has said so in a comment on Spencer and Braswell 2011 in Remote Sensing. (peer reviewed and published on the day it was received)

“reproducibility and openness should be a benchmark of any serious study.”

Absolute classic own goal.
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Old 17th Sep 2011, 13:44
  #9145 (permalink)  
 
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Cos they are out there GG. No BS. Good men and women true. Listen to them.
They maybe decent people and out there, but how does that relate to knowledge of sea ice volume over the centuries?
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Old 17th Sep 2011, 14:53
  #9146 (permalink)  
 
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corsair

Saw this and whether you buy into man made global warming or not. I have to say this is the kind of nonsense it breeds. It's bizarre and potentially very dangerous. Something as insane as this idea would never see the light of day in normal times. It's one thing to say that we are accidently changing the climate. It's quite another to try and alter it deliberately. Reducing global temperature by 2degC is simply insane.

Scientists to create artificial volcano for climate change experiment - Telegraph
Well, it really shows their true colors: Being that they failed to create a perceived crisis through massaging statistical data, half truths, whole lies, fear-mongering, and libel; they've now decided to create a real crisis to drive up atmospheric CO2 as to advance their agenda.

Never let a good crisis go to waste, and if there isn't a crisis, then create one.
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Old 17th Sep 2011, 15:06
  #9147 (permalink)  
 
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Well I don't know but the BAS has some interesting stuff. I noticed this news story dated 8th September.
News Story - 800,000 years of abrupt climate variability - British Antarctic Survey
News Story - 800,000 years of abrupt climate variability
I noted this paragraph:
The research published in the journal Science demonstrates that abrupt climate change has been a systemic feature of Earth’s climate for hundreds of thousands of years and may play an active role in longer term climate variability through its influence on ice age terminations.
The didn't even qualify it by adding 'until AGW changed all that!

Last edited by corsair; 17th Sep 2011 at 18:31.
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Old 17th Sep 2011, 20:36
  #9148 (permalink)  
 
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News Story - 800,000 years of abrupt climate variability
Sounds good, although I do wonder why the British ANTARCTIC Survey people are talking about ice cores in GREENLAND which is quite a distance away from what they are involved in.


Of course, what they neglect to mention is that any data/measurements/etc from any ice core only tells you what the conditions were AT THAT EXACT POINT ON THE PLANET and not anywhere else. I know there's nice little articles out there which point out how "erroneous" data from ice cores has been ignored, and how "Siberian" ice cores only come from a relatively small area of Siberia, so I think it's safe to say that extrapolation from ice-core "data" can be ignored as the actual area of the planet where ice-cores have been taken from is so small it cannot be taken to be "representative" in any way.
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Old 18th Sep 2011, 08:00
  #9149 (permalink)  
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Wind farm paid £1.2 million to produce no electricity

A wind farm has been paid £1.2 million not to produce electricity for eight-and-a-half hours. The amount is ten times greater than the wind farm's owners would have received had they actually generated any electricity.

The disclosure exposes the bizarre workings of Britain's electricity supply, prompting calls last night for an official investigation into the payments system.

The £1.2 million will go to a Norwegian company which owns 60 turbines in the Scottish Borders. The National Grid asked the company, Fred Olsen Renewables, to shut down its Crystal Rig II wind farm last Saturday for a little over eight hours amid fears the electricity network would become overloaded. The problem was caused by high winds buffeting the country in the wake of Hurricane Katia. In total, 11 wind farms were closed down last week, receiving a total of £2.6 million. The money - detailed in calculations provided by National Grid - will be added on to household bills and paid for by consumers.

As Britain pushes for more and more wind farms, critics claim the size of the 'constraint payments' will grow accordingly - raising serious concern about the long-term suitability of wind power to meet Britain's energy needs.

Crystal Rig received by far the largest single payment because the National Grid runs an auction, inviting energy companies to say how much they want in compensation for switching off. Crystal Rig's owners asked for £999 per megawatt hour of energy they would have produced had they been switched on. Incredibly, the figure Crystal Rig had bid was accepted by the National Grid. Had the turbines remained on, Crystal Rig's owners would have received the going rate of about £100 per megawatt hour instead. Half of that is in the form of a generous consumer subsidy.

Tim Yeo, chairman of the Energy and Climate Change Select Committee, called for an urgent inquiry into the prices paid to the wind farms. "The very principle of paying wind farm owners for not producing is one that is offensive to consumers," said Mr Yeo, "It looks like a new version of the Common Agricultural Policy where people are paid not to produce things. It looks on the face of it like an extraordinary overpayment by National Grid, for which an urgent explanation is required. This requires an immediate investigation by the energy watchdog Ofgem.".........
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Old 18th Sep 2011, 08:13
  #9150 (permalink)  
 
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..............

That's my money paying for that obscenity.

Last edited by handsfree; 18th Sep 2011 at 10:02.
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Old 18th Sep 2011, 15:28
  #9151 (permalink)  
 
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Since its being done on the coat tails of AGW, I think this belongs here........

Wind farm paid £1.2 million to produce no electricity - Telegraph
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Old 18th Sep 2011, 16:22
  #9152 (permalink)  
 
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I think that the owners of PPRuNe have come up with a world first... a web page with an echo.

And only one post removed as well. Eyes not working too well Vulcanised???
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Old 19th Sep 2011, 22:52
  #9153 (permalink)  
 
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I'm wondering if this controversy with apples from China and Argentina testing positive for large quantities of arsenic will be used as an environmental crisis.

After all the arsenic has to do with a pesticide used, and years ago DDT was a pesticide which was outlawed due to some kind of environmental concern...
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Old 20th Sep 2011, 05:26
  #9154 (permalink)  
 
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Don't be ridiculous, the arsenic in Chinese apple juice is down to counterfeit fertilisers/pesticides and farmers using cheap, illegal, ones to boost their own profits The same would happen in the US, if it doesn't already, as long as people can get away with it
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Old 20th Sep 2011, 10:43
  #9155 (permalink)  
 
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Basil,

"But scientists from the Scott Polar Research Institute say the figures are wrong; the ice has not shrunk so much."

I find it amazing that the hype about polar regions by Warmists and the Media is making a

fuss about ice that loses approx 150 Gt per year which is equivalent to about 0.6% per century?

Total Greenland ice = 2.85m km3 = 2.57m Gt. at this rate it will take 17,133 years to melt all of Greenland’s ice.

Not holding my breath………..
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Old 20th Sep 2011, 10:51
  #9156 (permalink)  
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at this rate it will take 17,133 years to melt all of Greenland’s ice
That will probably get changed to 17 years in the next IPCC report.
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Old 20th Sep 2011, 11:49
  #9157 (permalink)  
 
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The BBC, Grauniad and Torygraph are all on to the Times map crapology. In this case, their collective forensic science reporters are only two weeks behind here, alerted by sceptical science. The Torygraph's Louise "barking" Gray has produced a piece mildly critical of the IPCC's gross distortions, a mere five years after they were exposed as woeful lies. Times Atlas (read Murdoch) has provided a mild smokescreen for the UK MSM to protect their collective arses from their woeful inability to think past geenwash.
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Old 20th Sep 2011, 13:46
  #9158 (permalink)  
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Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear, I don't often quote large chunks from WUWT but I think in this case I will do so.

New peer reviewed paper: clouds have large negative-feedback cooling effect on Earth’s radiation budget


Oh dear, now we have three peer reviewed papers (Lindzen and Choi, Spencer and Braswell, and now Richard P. Allan) based on observations that show a net negative feedback for clouds, and a strong one at that. What will Trenberth and Dessler do next? Maybe the editor of Meteorological Applications can be persuaded to commit professional suicide and resign? The key paragraph from the new paper:

…the cloud radiative cooling effect through reflection of short wave radiation is found to dominate over the long wave heating effect, resulting in a net cooling of the climate system of −21 Wm−2.

After all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the Spencer and Braswell paper in Remote Sensing, and the stunt pulled by its former editor who resigned saying the peer review process failed, another paper was published last week in the journal Meteorological Applications that agrees well with Spencer and Braswell.

This new paper by Richard P. Allan of the University of Reading discovers via a combination of satellite observations and models that the cooling effect of clouds far outweighs the long-wave or “greenhouse” warming effect. While Dessler and Trenberth (among others) claim clouds have an overall positive feedback warming effect upon climate due to the long-wave back-radiation, this new paper shows that clouds have a large net cooling effect by blocking incoming solar radiation and increasing radiative cooling outside the tropics. This is key, because since clouds offer a negative feedback as shown by this paper and Spencer and Braswell plus Lindzen and Choi, it throws a huge monkey wrench in climate model machinery that predict catastrophic levels of positive feedback enhanced global warming due to increased CO2.
New peer reviewed paper: clouds have large negative-feedback cooling effect on Earth’s radiation budget | Watts Up With That?

Any takers on how many days it will take the Dynamic Duo the get a peer reviewed rebuttal published
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Old 20th Sep 2011, 18:28
  #9159 (permalink)  
 
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I'm quite amazed they haven't started labeling their critics as terrorists.
You're a bit behind the times again, Jane


(Bloody time stamp GREMLIN. I refuse to call it a "fairy" because a fairy would make sure everything was colour coordinated and in order, especially your wardrobe)
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Old 20th Sep 2011, 18:38
  #9160 (permalink)  
 
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green granite

Perhaps they will go on the attack against the scientists who made this finding, maybe they will use some other form of fear mongering (maybe both). Remember, they aren't stupid (they're morally bankrupt, yes) and they probably realize they cannot use the same tactic endlessly.

I'm quite amazed they haven't started labeling their critics as terrorists, or claiming that aliens might try to wipe out life on Earth because of fear that we would pollute other worlds (oh wait, they actually did the latter)
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