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Old 4th Jun 2011, 15:55   #7981 (permalink)
 
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OFSO,
Ask the locals to explain the 'Ice Saints' to you....

Here (French coast of the Mediterranean, about 100km from the Spanish border), we have no snow, but rain, cold, wind and a thunderstorm this morning.

What's ironic is that it's the 'Ascension' long weekend in France, so a lot of people have gambled on the weather being OK in the S of France in early June and have headed South, while the weather in Paris is better at the moment....

It's all 'weather' and 'micro-climate' ...

CJ
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Old 4th Jun 2011, 16:45   #7982 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I do realise that some (probably most on this board), don't think the world is warming at all, or that if it is, there is some other cause than man made CO2.

What the actual outturn will be will assuredly be found out.
The question is NOT "Is the world warming" but "Is MAN causing the world to warm up". Most here tend to think that the answer to the first one is "Yes" and the second "No, it's a NATURAL occurrence". Also, the "science" (a term I use VERY loosely) is TOTALLY flawed, the methodology is flawed and, when that is pointed out, then the hysterics and finger pointing starts. That is not "science", but typical pinko leftie bullying.
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Old 4th Jun 2011, 16:47   #7983 (permalink)
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I do realise that some (probably most on this board), don't think the world is warming at all, or that if it is, there is some other cause than man made CO2.
911slf
I think you'll find that most people on here happily accept that the world is warming by the steady trend of 0.4C per century, but a lot are skeptical of the large amount above that figure, because of the way the data is manipulated to take into account UHIs, time of day the readings are taken, the bad siting of recording stations, etc. As for CO2, the main thing that would prove it, the hot spot in the upper atmosphere, is not there.
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Old 4th Jun 2011, 16:54   #7984 (permalink)

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Well now you do have to admit that the AGW crowd do have their propagandist answers down pat.

Too hot; AGW

Too cold; AGW

Too much rain; AGW

Too little rain; AGW

Too much snow; AGW

Too little snow; AGW

Light bulb burns out; AGW


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Old 6th Jun 2011, 01:31   #7985 (permalink)
 
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Question to hard = AGW hysterics ..








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Old 6th Jun 2011, 01:32   #7986 (permalink)
 
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Why is Oz Prime Minister Gillard terrified to meet a sceptic?

Good question..

An invitation from a man who "runs the most-read political blog in Australia", is a sceptic, and has his own TV show...


"...If the truth is so clearly on the side of the warmists, why this fear of debate? Wouldn’t they welcome the chance to show up the sceptics? Humiliate them, live on television?
The warmists’ fear of debate tells you everything about the shakiness of their theories. And how unsure they are themselves of their own case."


Why is Gillard terrified to meet a sceptic? | Herald Sun Andrew Bolt Blog




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Old 6th Jun 2011, 02:12   #7987 (permalink)
 
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Do you mean people like Dr. Richard Alley?

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Old 6th Jun 2011, 20:37   #7988 (permalink)

 
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Flying Binghi

Quote:
"...If the truth is so clearly on the side of the warmists, why this fear of debate?
Because their arguments are fundamentally flawed and in a live debate there's a risk that somebody would punch a hole in their argument and they worry that everything would unravel at that point.

Quote:
Wouldn’t they welcome the chance to show up the sceptics? Humiliate them, live on television?
The warmists’ fear of debate tells you everything about the shakiness of their theories.
Of course

Quote:
And how unsure they are themselves of their own case."
Now that's not true at all, Binghi; they know their arguments are wrong but simply do not care. They aren't motivated about being right; they are motivated by concluding the premise they created as to justify the global carbon tax, and with that a carbon taxer (i.e. global governance).
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Old 7th Jun 2011, 00:25   #7989 (permalink)
 
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For those of you in Brisbane on the 18th of June, you may be interested in attending this,


Last edited by notmyC150v2; 7th Jun 2011 at 00:27. Reason: I am a damn fool and got the date wrong...
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Old 7th Jun 2011, 03:35   #7990 (permalink)

 
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From what I hear it looks like Oz is pretty much screwed and
the bogan will get her carbon tax pushed through, with the
view of a trading scam in place within 5 years time. This is a
serious redistribution of personal wealth and corporate capital
with a vengeance.

Australia has the wrong government at the wrong time, too
many malicious commies with too much power, and too much
of the populace has succumbed to the Socialist tried n true
method of Fabian-style brainwashing (and like that hasn't
happened before!)

Scratch Oz. I expect it might still remain a reasonably nice
place to visit, though it will become much more expensive
to do so than it is now.
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Old 7th Jun 2011, 05:34   #7991 (permalink)


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Ain't that the truth Slasher. And what's more annoying, to boot, is that we no longer have a politics thread where we can comment on it on threat of a permanent ban if anyone tries to resurrect a politics thread or even contribute to such a thread!

It's a real shame considering how much is happening in Oz politics at the moment with a dysfunctional government that needs every avenue to bring it to account. And the proposed carbon tax is only one of the cock ups!
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Old 7th Jun 2011, 07:17   #7992 (permalink)
 
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Not long finished watching Wayne Swan, Aust Treasurer speaking at national Press Club in Canberra.

Notes;

1) Kept referring to Aust having the worst "per capita" pollution for carbon. Which, considering 7.5 million sq kilometer land mass / 20 million population, mainly on the east coast fringe, makes the statement a nonesense.

2) Kept referring to carbon tax saving the Murray/ Darling food bowl, (which the greens are trying to kill by taking water from the irrigators), Kakadu, which is as green as it will ever get considering it's in a tropical high rainfall Territory, and saving The Great Barrier Reef, which we are told is being killed by solar influences, but at odds with the "fact" that sea levels are rising, if you believe the propaganda, and will therefor submerge it out of harms way.

3) Kept refreing to most of our trading partners having a carbon tax of some sort despite only the EU being involved. Also failed to mention USA and China, most of Asia and South America, don't.

4) Admitted the carbon tax (with a nomilal value of $20, will be re-named a carbon trading scheme after 12 months and prices will be at market demand. Refused to elaborate on other "models" costed at greater values

5) failed to answer the question satisfactorily that considering our "elected" minority government has power by virtue of a lie, "there will be no carbon tax", wouldn't it be better to wait another 12 months after it's introduction for her to get a mandate via an election.

6) Said there is no time to loose, can't wait another 12 months, despite our previous and assasinated, (equally inept Labor) PM, putting the whole thing on hold indefinently after the Copenhagen debacle failed to gain any concensus.

7) Spent 75% of the time claiming the Opposition is running a scare mongering campaign, but denying telling pensioners the seas are rising and they will probably drown, (in 100 years time), was scaremongering.

8) Failed to address the energy future needs and told lies about an emerging alternative energy factor in establishing figures which show we will be richer by paying an extra tax in perpetuity.

Conclusion;

This treasurer lacks any sort of credibility as does his partners in crime who all come from the school of socialist agendas in the Unions including one front bencher who's socialist mother-in-law happens to be The Union apppointed Governor General of the Country.

This government is the problem, not the solution.
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Old 7th Jun 2011, 08:01   #7993 (permalink)
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This is supposed to be a thread about the science of global warming not Australian politics so please stop contaminating it.
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Old 7th Jun 2011, 08:13   #7994 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
This is supposed to be a thread about the science of global warming not Australian politics so please stop contaminating it.
green granite, the 'global warming' nonsence is being pushed by politics, greed and hysteria. There's nothing "science" about it.






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Old 7th Jun 2011, 09:16   #7995 (permalink)
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I don't disagree with your statement Flying Binghi but as I said this thread is supposed to be about the science of GW. Perhaps we should have a separate thread for an indepth look at the politics of Global warning/climate change or what ever they call it today. I just don't want to see page after page of political dogma on here, however I'm really only a minor cog in the thread.
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Old 7th Jun 2011, 09:42   #7996 (permalink)
 
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Actually, GG, I think you're one of the more interesting posters in this thread.
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Old 7th Jun 2011, 10:34   #7997 (permalink)
 
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Science is boring!

Well, it seems to be so for many here! The science of greenhouse gases is pretty straightforward, about as mysterious as, as, well, a greenhouse! Energy sails right past the outer shell in one form but is then trapped in another form. This might be science or it might be witchcraft but it certainly does occur.

For a real eye-opener, check out what is happening with Siberian permafrost now. Great chunks of the Siberian landscape are turning into mud and liberating a lot of methane as they thaw; methane is an even more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. What does this mean, though? "Al Gore made this up," I guess.

The fun starts with the politics of science, interpreting the data, which is mostly what we can read about here. Not least, the anti-AGW crowd prefer to focus very narrowly on just one aspect of this, "warming," ignoring what the real fuss is about, rapid and increasingly rapid climate change.

It's a good thing that my wife pals around with a GP. If I read one more stupid post about "It snowed yesterday in XXX, the first time that has happened in quite a while, so I guess that disproves AGW, hur-hur!!!" then I may well start screaming and not stop until I get my Thorazine injection. Some places get warmer, some places get colder, just a tiny change in temperature can have profound effects... this is not something simple, unfortunately, so that attempting to discuss it in very simple terms is futile. Of course, simplicity sells, on both sides.
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Old 7th Jun 2011, 10:42   #7998 (permalink)
 
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Some places get warmer, some places get colder, just a tiny change in temperature can have profound effects... this is not something simple, unfortunately, so that attempting to discuss it in very simple terms is futile. Of course, simplicity sells, on both sides.
Sums it up!
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Old 7th Jun 2011, 11:55   #7999 (permalink)
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Actually, GG, I think you're one of the more interesting posters in this thread
Thank you Simonpro, not wishing to start a mutual admiration society, but I find yours full of interesting points which I can go away and think about and it helps my understanding of things. I have you down as a lukewarmer in the same vein as Judith Curry. (I have no objections to lukewarmers as they are happy to discuss science, as apposed to the Jones and Manns of this world who aren't prepared to it seems)
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Old 7th Jun 2011, 12:35   #8000 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
...For a real eye-opener, check out what is happening with Siberian permafrost now. Great chunks of the Siberian landscape are turning into mud and liberating a lot of methane as they thaw; methane is an even more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. What does this mean, though? "Al Gore made this up," I guess.
Ho hum, old news.

AGAIN, we have just come out of a mini ice age. de worlds climate has been warming since we came out of the mini ice age in the mid 1800's. It would be expected that if we aint in a little ice age then it would be warmer... This is in part wot the hocky stick graph scam were all about. A couple of carbon muppet scientists needed to remove the warmer then today medieval warm period to 'proove' the models and that todays temperatures are warmer then normal - FAIL..


Here's wot yer would expect when the world is coming outa a mini ice age...

“… the Southern boundary of permafrost in Siberia is everywhere receding Northward. In 1837 this boundary, for example, ran somewhat South of the town of Mezen and was found to a depth of 2m. In 1933 the academy of Sciences Expedition found this boundary at the village of Semzha 40 km further North…”

This predates wot the IPCC claims fer human emitted CO2 affecting temps.

“Catastrophic” retreat of glaciers in Spitsbergen | Watts Up With That?



Quote:
...ignoring what the real fuss is about, rapid and increasingly rapid climate change...
chuks, do try and come up with sumthin new fer fecks sake. The hysteria line has been done to death..








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