Sullysark

I recall rumours, prior to CAE buying OAA, that students (the majority at that time were what would now be described as 'Whitetail') were encouraged to write favourable posts to counter some negativity expressed by others about the management of their training and other perceived problems. It was suggested that those who wrote favourably were rewarded with fast-track access to selection by a large UK operator who had previously had a long relationship with the school. Following course completion, a handful of these students were selected by that airline, in itself exceptionally unusual at that time. I understand though that this was nothing more than speculation.

The apparent absence of blogs from students of other ATO's (although they do exist, most are from former students either seeking their first job or a channel for their narcissism) is more likely due to a different style of marketing and probably an absence of encouragement (or perhaps a contractual constraint?) from the management; not all organisations enjoy the outward looking freedom of expression that apparently L3 CTS embraces - look at OAA marketing from ten years ago and compare it with that of L3 CTS today; there are remarkable similarities. One ATO is particularly visible in social media, consumer publications as well as recently, terrestrial television (coincidentally, a class of Oxford BA cadets some years ago were also followed through training on a BBC programme called 'Airshow' with a reference to the school in each episode they were shown - great publicity you might think...). It's more than likely due to a proactive and modern marketing policy driven by someone in the organisation that understands the influence of social media on the demographic of their potential clientele.

What's your point? Training accidents are more common than schools would like you to believe, but they do happen and for many different reasons. The airfield in question suffered more than it's fair share of student mishaps at one point I understand, and largely due to mishandling rather than mechanical or weather. Are you suggesting that is why they are apparently moving their operation to Sanford (an interesting place to locate a large fair weather flying operation by the way, and not least because of the Class C airspace and relative congestion in the Orlando area), or is it more likely that the company owns assets there and it makes more sense from a real estate perspective? If so, it could be short-sighted for reasons described earlier. You might as well start up an elementary flight school in New Zealand but with the obvious advantage of being closer to your home base.

:ugh:

Just a matter of opinion then as my own path to where I am now involved much more than asking parents for money and coughing up £100k. Make all the assumptions you wish, there's no pretentiousness here. I'm sure you were also just as happy to be going through it as much as I am now. Anyway; this thread isn't about me is it!

:D

Ok, nor all of our parents give us 130k either! (Type rating)

I prefer, the 'The story so far' like we don't know what awaits, a cliff hanger maybe. Well no, you're doing the same course as the 160 odd other CPs before you so we all know what lies ahead :rolleyes:

Then you get to the flightdeck and 95% of us simply want a Starbucks, and decent conversation the last thing we want to hear about is 'The Journey' fs.

Look; I know a troll when I see one.

Perhaps consider the target audience of the content I produce Sullysark; it's quite clearly not for you is it. It's for the people wanting to be pilots themselves whom I once was. Granted, I'm not there yet; but i'm closer than a year or two ago. It's for the people wanting to know more about the industry and the people who want the true cost of flight training to which the flight schools seldom mention. Must I go on?

My longer term career aspirations go beyond a Starbucks and a natter about the days headline just as my blog goes far beyond the typical content produced previously. Heck, if you're after a Starbucks; I'll buy you one and show you how far wrong your preconceptions are. I hate PPRune sometimes.

I kindly ask you to take your rhetoric elsewhere and stop clogging this post.

Ta.

In danger of taking this thread further off topic, if that's possible, how will this be brought about. Perm contracts thrown like confetti?

I thought the wholepoint of flexicrew was that it was advantageous tax wise to both the company and the individual.
What about the famously 'repayable' training bond?

Awk Botley, behave. Don't get touchy.

Fte Jerez is somewhere in the region of £20,000 more expensive with a faster course. OAA my old spot, again is different. So you can only give an insight into L3 and as I have pointed out. You've lied about or touched over, or simply ignored. Why? The answer is obvious you're aiming to be the best Mr EasyJet at CTC. It's obvious. Maybe even get on the TV!

Every post you comment on is in some form related to L3 or EasyJet. Yet, you do it to avoid any doubt or raise doubts about CTC. Isn't it true, CTC is full in NZ they had to source their accomaation. And that all relates down to the failure in the USA with a fleet grounded for months. Yet you told us that was the long term plan...

You missed the point sir. My point is in, hearing about the journey is as fun as drinking bleach.

I'm not trolling you. Simply reminding you, there's another 500 blogs before yours. All of which outline what you do. You even have your blog name on your Pprune log in like some student council rep.

AFAIK, the training bond wasnt repaid under flexi until you went permanent anyway. Flexi contracts were typically UK only with European contracts being different by country. In any case, I reckon you’d just enter at the SO pay grade. As always, I’m happy to be proven wrong.

Just to clarify, you mean cheaper right?

Unless they've put their fees up

120,000 Euro. Roughly I believe. I've a family member there on the BA Cityflyer scheme, I went out to visit. They're definitely improved, and vastly improved their airline links from when I trained 6-8 years ago.

To clarify the Cityflyer scheme is cheaper, I was quoting the integrated scheme.

Wow, they have put their fees up a bit. When I interviewed 3 years back it was something like 90000 euro. On top of that the euro rate was really good!

3 years ago you probably wouldn't of got a job mind! Not sure what happened there, i think they had a new HoT etc.

I wanted to train in the US. Hence why I went with Oxford, 15 months in Jerez didn't sound like fun.

Ah, The Air Show on BBC, back in the days when BA fully funded trainees on it's TEP programme. From what I recall, the quality of the content on that show was fairly decent.

Regarding the paper and a coffee, the thing is a lot of "dream" jobs do eventually become just a job. I had two "dream" careers I was applying for, one was flying for the airlines, the other was elsewhere. At the moment, I'm doing the latter as a trainee and whilst I do enjoy it most of the time, there is more to life than work itself.

I think the blogs can be very useful when it comes to understanding the process, including selection, financing and the actual training itself. However, the "dream" side of things can be wearisome, particularly when training providers and airlines use it to sell "opportunities" with poor T&Cs.

FTE do seem to be fairly strong at the moment though I must say I do see Kura and Wings Alliance having given modular a bit of a boost.

Sullysark,

Sure, let me go and comment in a post to which I have zero idea - because that’s logic, right?

I never denied issues in AZ, and you’ll find I said Bournemouth was in the longer term plan not AZ’s closure. With that said, as another user points out above, it makes total business sense to operate from a facility to which all assets are your own - hence Florida.

Sure as you’d expect, NZ is busy but staff are working damn hard to get through everyone - hats off to them. It’s the weather which is working against them right now. Hamilton’s in an odd place as when it’s nice here its crap elsewhere and vice versa. What more is there to say? While Clearways might be full; the accommodation being sourced is better to be fair! Nice new builds in town.

Anyways, I’m bored of this now. Any further issues with me then take it into a PM.

This sounds almost like a repeat of the previous incumbent's of that facility - much common ground. What was the failed component and are Lufthansa contracted for maintenance?

gbotley
Were you told the extent of the problem? Presumably your peers out in the U.S. would have kept friends at other locations informed if they had all that time on their hands? What a nightmare. Perhaps those students inconvenienced, unless tagged, will be compensated with a shoehorn into EZY? ;)

Personally, I would be extremely careful posting information in any public forum about a training provider in the detail that has been provided here. If you are not posting with the endorsement of the management to support you, I would not wish to upset L3 who, as a U.S. corporation would undoubtable look unfavourably on delicate safety, operational and organisational matters being revealed by individuals under contract.

I think we should leave Botley alone, we may push him too far.

I am however not under contract in any shape or form, and simply speaking from her say, which is strong here say. As an FO's give me a day long chat about said company last week, for once I put down my glorious caramel latte accompanied by a disgusting bacon butty and listened.

Have I told you I'm training to be a Pilot?

117,000 Euro.

Kura is meant to be great, I've a few friends going down that route with them.

Waheyy its tom the pilot....lets be real though, FTE/OAA is ahead of L3 on a 'whitetail' course. Tagged Courses at L3 are better. FTE pays for Medical Renewal and you get Christmas off. L3 asks for more money :E

:D very good, that made me laugh, good to know there is some humour on the flightdeck!

What an absolutely desperate pile of s**** this thread turned into.

Leave George alone for god's sake. I've only ever seen him try to help others and provide info.

If you're that peed off by people talking about their "journey" then perhaps looking at a flight training thread with people currently in flight training isn't the best idea.

Many forget how happy they once were when it all started out. They become blinded by bitterness and anger and turn against those who are them 10 years ago.

Go find a girlfriend or something honestly guys.

The levels to which some of us go to try and embarrass someone and make a point (serve the ego really) are shocking.

I think the thread can be concluded as easyjet are not desperate for pilots, not 200 hr guys at least.

Well said Kite

Officer Kite, its only a debate and a bit of joking around (well I was anyway). What is it they say - 'a man who is afraid to get criticised, never gets recognised'

p.s. I already have a gf, in fact there is a ring heading her way :ok:

This thread was a fact finding mission. The famous blog, is filled with lies then or cover ups shall we say as an FO told me.

I tend to agree although I'd be surprised if "lies and cover ups" were intended by those posting. Despite the bait laying question posed by the original OP, this thread has been revealing and informative. I hope those seeking a structured path to a career in commercial aviation can learn something from the testimony of contributors here. Caveat emptor.

Reverserbucket,

Here's my answer to your previous question to bring my involvement in this very off-topic thread to a close.

As a trainee I have noticed a total change in internal communications for the better since L3 got its teeth stuck in earlier this year. While CTC Aviation may be no more, it is becoming very clear where L3 wish this business to be five years from now. Cadets now receive monthly emails on the happenings within the organisation which has covered topics such as the rebrand, what it means, progress on investments such as the new simulator centre in Gatwick and fleet in Florida, in addition those points discussed in this post - in detail. They've not beaten around the bush on the topics and have been very forthright with it all. Management from the UK have visited both international sites to meet trainees in person and as I've heard from my peers in the states have had quite a presence there of late. Last but not least, hold pool stats, transparency and airline-partner criteria is inclusive too.

For the avoidance of doubt, my intention has never been to cover stuff up; be libellous or breach my training contract - nor have I.

And that's precisely the problem. You can't say the realities, because your contract prevents you from revealing confidential information. Hence why you used the odd hiccup, the very idea a cadet didn't know what is happening in the USA is utterly ridiculous.

It would be fantastic to see a current L3/CTC cadet come forward and go yup, it happened and this is why or even someone who recently finished. You can't say diddly :mad:, 'never been to cover up stuff, or breach my contract' what you're essentially saying is. Well, I cant really post what the reality is as well I'll get sued for telling the truth. It sounds a bit like a Nazi regime come to think off it, just one you've paid 100k for.

gbotley

I think you may have misunderstood my post - I was supporting your enthusiastic appraisal of your training and ATO, although I must admit to having been confused, as I was under the misimpression that you were an EZY tagged student. My fault for not reading your other contributions properly or looking at your blog. My curiosity was sparked by comments made concerning EZY recruitment and also the relocation of training in the US, and although I appreciate you are in NZ, you clearly have some meaningful insight.

The management visits you describe should be expected and are quite proper following an acquisition and rebranding by a large overseas corporation and it must be reassuring to feel that the company has it's customers best interests at heart. If you had read my post properly you would have understood that my comment regarding posting sensitive or proprietary information was not aimed at you as I think you do a fairly good job of presenting your view in a balanced and proportionate way. I have not suggested that you have covered anything up, acted libellously nor breached any contract and I have no means to determine the accuracy of the information you post although it sounds reasonable. That said, comments by other posters might be seen as verging on the side of contention and my counsel would be to exercise caution and restraint to others when discussing aircraft accidents and potentially sensitive matters in the context of this thread. You merely stated that there had been problems as a result of which in turn led to mention of DA40 performance problems in hot weather and all that followed (I believe CTC/L3 CTS lease part of a LFT owned company's training facility at Goodyear, AZ). I sought more information but none has been forthcoming. You give the impression of being a well informed and trustworthy source of information who keenly imparts his experiences, and as such I feel it only fair that others here who have a genuine interest in professional pilot training, school selection and airline employment should seek your opinion.

I'm disappointed you feel this thread has gone off topic as I think that, as mentioned, the OP's title for this thread surely had to be a red rag to a bull to anyone close to or involved with either the airline or largest source of low experience pilot candidates? A discussion that has evolved from that is surely to be expected? One thing that is clear though is that EZY are not desperate for low houred recently graduated pilots at the moment; there is a need for more experienced candidates as departures to BA and elsewhere continue but the airline are unlikely to be 'sponsoring' inexperienced ICAO licence holders to obtain an EASA ticket with type rating. As far fetched as that may sound, I can remember a time when Britannia Airways (Thomson/TUI) were pinning postcards to flying club notice boards inviting applicants with a CPL and 700 hours TT to apply for a bonded IR course followed shortly thereafter by almost ten years of zero flightdeck recruitment; it's said that the only consistent part of airline recruitment is it's inconsistency.

Good luck with your training George and enjoy the training for the IRT.

Reverserbucket,

I genuinely believe you have a connection to CTC, L3 or whatever the **** they're called now.

The fact you are now supporting George and now mentioning the size of L3. No more information will be forthcoming, as it would be the truth. Growing problems, does not explain an aircraft crash making the local news. I've flown light aircraft up to tripe 7's each year my airline has increased size, I'm yet to see our growing problems result in a crash or months of grounding. Now, Mr Botley if you've anything to add truthful. Be sure to post it.

Reverserbucket,

Perhaps I should have made that clearer - I'm Whitetail, not MPL. I agree conversational development around the point is to be expected; but I feel it became quite personal towards me at times which is partly the reason for my statement. You are correct in that easyJet, like many of their competitors, seem to want Captains. This industry was once described to me as a bucket with holes in. To plug the holes you need new employees; but training said employees takes time. This training is also important in this issue given the demand for TRI/TREs at many carriers which I guess is also holding things up at other ends of the timeline.

In truth I guess the main answer to the original question is, for as long as easyJet and other airlines have a large number of integrated self-funded fATPL graduates then full sponsorship is unlikely. I thank you for your kind comments and best wishes; and apologise if I/you/we misunderstood one another. That's sadly the downside of text based communication at times. :/

That's why it's called PPRUNE

Sullysark

You would be wrong. I'm curious though, do you know more about the DA40 forced landing? It appears that the same aircraft also made another off airport landing on 31 May 2016? The one reported in April this year looks like an EFATO although a fair distance from a decent length runway?

Reversbucket,

I've been checking this thread often. I find it off particular interest, I'm also glad to see it has nearly 10,000 views.

However I do believe Sullysark said he heard it from an FO who just came from CTC. If you believe George is a good source of information. I believe you should ask George what happened with the crash in Phoenix as you referred to him as someone a potential cadet should seek information from.

Interesting thread so far.

Are Easyjet going to be short of pilots? No, doubt they will be to the extent of the blue and yellow mob unless it's a shortage of experienced captains. Whilst I'm under the impression their T&Cs don't match what was available in the industry twenty years ago, they're good enough to seemingly prevent a lot people from going to Norwegian or other carriers. Shame they don't take modular types straight out of training but that's a different debate altogether.

I've read gbotley's blog (or at least fair bits of it) and even though I'm strongly against the way integrated is funded, it does seem a reasonably good blog when it comes to practical matters, such as the assessment process, the way training is structured, transport to/from the accommodation etc. Of course he's not going to be overly negative when using his real name to write about an organisation which could massively help or hinder him finding a job at the end. That's common sense and unfortunately it is a practical reality of training that despite trainees paying huge sums of money, the flight schools do have a firm grip of candidates due to the schools' connections with the airlines. Anyone reading any blog about aviation training should be aware of that.

It can, I believe be a fairly small industry so when researching the industry or a specific training school with an attitude to beginning training, get an opinion from as many informed people as you can from a reasonably diverse background and see what the consensus is. Factor in anything which could influence the opinion of individuals or a group as a whole. Basic common sense.

Oh Mr Botley (Mr CTC)

Would you like to pass comment on another CTC forced landing in the United States, this week?

Can you post a link to the article? Can't find details

This one didn't make the news. Fleet grounded in the United States, again.

I can simply post an aircraft in a desert field photo.

MR BOTLEY. Can you pass comment? (I think Mr Botley is ignoring me) :=

Keen for the photo!

How do you upload a photo?

little yellow button with a mountain and a sun on

This thread stopped being about easyJet and moved onto a thread where a guy with 20 posts (curiously enough...) comes to attack a cadet who's done nothing but try to help others that are starting in aviation just as he is. This is not what aviation and encouraging new aviators should be about! If gbotley has been accused of being sponsored by L3 to say nice things about them, I'm curious as to who may be sponsoring you, Sullysark. And that is as far as I'll go...