Well the chances are really big that you stay after training. But that is what I heard from pilots who work for FR. That I cannot confirm.

Otherwise it is only that you pay a lot of money for your TR. True on that.

come on guys keep the pay 2 fly going so the rest of us can have cheap flights around Europe! think of all the family and business reltaionships that you are helping along teh way.

Well i've cheated a little bit and signed the petition 6 times with all 6 of my different e-mail addresses.. :8

However I do think that 100,000 signers is a little optimistic..

It´s up to employes and management to stop p2f.
Once no "good" companies hire p2f guys - p2f will go away.

Once Captains deny to fly with flaps operator - p2f will go away.

PILOTS should unite against "must-be-in-shine-jet-no-matter-what" babies!

Who will benefit? Pilots, management of all "good" airliners. The only one to lose here is p2f companies and low-cost.

Whoever is in union - talk to them. Have a stike against p2f! It´s not that hard to stop p2f, as long as pilots are willing to do so!

Well done Jumbo ;) .

Absolutely true what you say there Cefey.

Together we can do something against it. The thing is, a proper research should be done also to conclude that many programs are of low quality which has bad influences on Airline operation safety. If Airlines understand that, then they also will stop P2F.

Those 2 private jet guys who flew around the world in 3 days or whatever it was seemed quite naive to do so without reporting anything, I know they were fearful of losing their jobs but they had nothing to lose. It comes to a point where you have to ask yourself, do i want to fly this thing and risk death or stay alive ? ...

Much as I hate P2F, that petition is the most amateur looking thing I've ever seen in my life. Crying about Astraeus, seriously, didn't they go bust in 2011?

I presume it's been written in French and run through Google Translate or something, but seriously, that looks like it was written by a 6 year old who can't spell, punctuate, or use capitals. And what's up with the random highlighting of random words and phrases?

You do yourself more harm than good by pestering the politicians with that kind of amateur nonsense, just makes you look completely unprofessional. At least get the lawyer from BALPA or SNLP to draft up a copy that is presentable.

Not only is the petition badly written but it will never succeed anyway. Someone somewhere will offer to pay just to get ahead of the queue. How do you think this all started in the first place? Pilot unity does not exist sadly and accountants rule!

Doing nothing will also change Nothing.

At least die Trying. If you never shoot, you will NEVER win.

Hello everyone, I feel like there's an interesting conversation to be had here! :)

Golfdriver: I'd really like to see you put something on the table before spitting in the soup...

@Luke SkyToddler: Hi Luke, thank you for your inputs on the petition! I am the 6 year old who can't spell, punctuate, or use capitals that "published" it :D.

I'm sorry that it appears amateur to you, but the sentence you quoted is grammatically correct and conveys the intended meaning.

Worth mentioning, the ECA (that represent you to some degree) submitted the petition for approval at the 26-27th General Assembly before all the 37 Member Associations (including BALPA btw) that concluded with "a general and warm consensus in supporting the initiative".

They didn't mention anything wrong YET and perhaps I will hear from them soon for me to modify it :}

In the meantime, please give me your version of a proper petition and I will introduce your modifications pronto!

By the way, I need your opinion on the spanish, deutch and french version as well (my spanish was a bit rusty at the time of the writting).

Astraeus no longer existing doesn't erase the practice they perpetuated. This is why I let it. Consider that in the p2f fight, we also have an online repository to gather evidences: shall I erase the evidence every time an airline fills for bankruptcy as well?

As for highlighting random words, I did it to mess with you, obviously! /sarc

@sunside: how an airline that doesn't do p2f is supposed to compete with an airline that does cash on pilots? It's called "unfair competition" and will destroy jobs, not "increase the number of jobs" as you said (go ask the regular airlines and majors).

Whatever. With all the elements I see before me since 2011 (and they are numerous) , I can tell you this: we WILL have P2F stop for good, notwithstanding what the haters, no-doers, slackers, party poopers and Stephane Hoinville can tell.

Whine. Or chose to act.

FlyGosh P"F contract
 

While we on one hand are trying to find ways to eliminate P2F....People like Flygosh continue to spoil this industry.Take a look at the Latest P2F contract he is offering:yuk:
Fly Gosh: Self Sponsored ATR Direct Entry First Officer - 2 Year Job Contract ( Low hour )
There are always idiots willing to do this so when is it going to stop?:=

At least it seams you get salary there ;) . But as we all know, Fly Gosh comes up with horrible ''jobs''. So I cannot imagine that this " Offer " is any good.
To little info. You get 3500USD per month, 350USD housing allowances, but where is it then? Very vague.
Training costs?

But those benifits are from the second year!I sure hope its not in libya!

P40;),
don't fall in TRAP! Like someone said here, the Benefits are only from the 2nd Year and believe me the SALARY is really a CRAP !!!!

-Africa (usually is not MENA or NAR so forget Tunisia, Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Morocco), I think could be a region in Center/West Africa.

- Isn't so cheap like someone could think. If you want nice food or sometime eat in some American Fast Food, like Pizza hut, KFC, MD and so on, you-ill be surprised about the price, double of what we use to in EU.

- African Companies usually Jet Operator, pay more than that and they give you a decent place where to live as well as other benefits! Average Salary for a FO is between 4000/5000 USD NET>

So if someone have got the rating it worth to go there knock some doors, boost your chances and after getting and passed the assessment, you're in!

@CockpitSeeker......this is just a repeat of something that was tried 5 years ago and it didn't succeed then so why should it now? FYI I signed the petition and a fat load of good it did (not).
As I said there will always be someone who will pay just to get ahead of you and that's one of the reasons why it will never go away sadly.


In my day I just signed a bond and agreed to stay for the appropriate time but there were those that signed the said bond then jumped ship for something better - and to make matters worse they did not honour that bond.


There is an element in the pilot community that will not honour what was agreed so bonding changed to the company taking a loan with a bank then handing it to you the pilot to pay off. It then morphed into the pilot paying from the beginning.


It is a dilemma for most pilots and I have known guys sign a bond for a turbo prop on a Monday and walk out into a jet job on Friday and conveniently forgot the arrangement that they had entered into 5 days previously.


Enjoy the soup..........

No I wont fall for such "deals" like that one of Fly Gosh. Everyone knows that you get screwed there.

That is indeed respectless what happened there Golf. Those guys who did that are also the blame to :mad: up their T&C in the future. We are talking here about some short term thinking what they did. On long run it will suck.

The current aviation industry nowadays likes pilots to sign contracts that are not clearly understood to them, so that the company or agent can do whatever they like.

I notice that the address used by Mr. Benz is famous for criminal scams.

145-157 ST JOHN STREET, LONDON, ENGLAND, EC1V 4PW

Let this be a lesson to you all to do your due diligence before parting with your money!

Internet fraud - the British connection

It is easy: do you remember the airline's blacklist? They were unable to fly to Europe. This must be the same. For safety reasons airlines like: Royal Air Maroc, Tunisair and others must be banned by EU. And that's all.
The problem: the politicians do not care about pilots " they are well paid guys, living well and having s x with pretty girls".
But I am sure that all this things are entering the safety of the operations... And check all the latests accidents like TransAsia.

I don't get you:confused:.. Problems is no royal air maroc or tunisair, problem is the p2f scheme...
even Spain have p2f program! so we should ban Spain as well, right?
ALBASTAR Just to name the first in my mind..:rolleyes:

:confused: am I get drunk or forgot something back?
What's the link between p2f and TranAsia...??:eek: Please let us know...