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Giuff 27th Jul 2021 06:39

Thanks again. I wanted to understand the policy behind base allocations, knowing very little about Wizzair.
I have been in eastern Europe and in the Balkans for many years during my military times, and i agree with you. Its not bad at all if one is willing to adapt.
Tirana in a nice place for example, not expensive and now there are flights to most european destinations from LATI.

Pearlharbour 27th Jul 2021 06:39

chinese3NMofftrack

and my friend you also are not saying the truth.

commuting is not possible because you are not giving fix Roster pattern to your pilots but random roster instead.
commuting is not possible because you don’t give airline tickets to your employees.
commuting is not possible because you decreased salaries 30% on 2020 with the promise of “Chef Varadi” to restore salaries by March 2021. Nothing of that has happened.
commuting is not possible because you fired 300 pilots last years, TRIs, TREs and now you don’t have training capabilities enough and you are smashing literally the pilots that remain in the company.

what quality of life my friend? Only local pilots with families on their base could have a bit of decent life. For expats joining the company it will be the hell.

aviation is a small world, while some CEOs receive 100£ mill bonus, their pilots live a miserable life in Eastern Europe. Rebound is here and pilots are gonna go far far far away of this company and they will have serious problems to find pilots and release them very soon.

Life is a double way street

good luck

FlightDetent 27th Jul 2021 07:15

Getting a mortgage and buing a house?
Having your elderly parents, partially immobile, living at your place with the local health and social security service deployed to keep them safe?
Your kids aged 5 and 13 going to school and learning in their native language, or at least in English?
Wife working as a nurse at the vet's for a salary that covers the expenses in case daddy breaks ankle slipping on the ice one day?
Organizing Christmas get-together for the extended family of 15 people?

That is life.

Being 1 hour from parking checklist to the beach is having a good time.

Of course the company hangs the carots where otherwise they'd need to increase pay to get crewed. And there is no shame in accepting outpost deployment on a mission (upgrade) if it is for career development. Just make sure you understand well what that later career is like.

For the long term, WZZ work schedule and pay only supports local crew at bases. Expat job needs to pay more for the same work comparing to home. Other than that, you've accepted re-location.

FlightDetent 27th Jul 2021 07:26

chinese3NMofftrack

RYR treated their pilot crew on par with the largest EU legacy behemoths, not fired the full-time employees to keep the cheaper and more disposable contractors on board.
RYR pays almost triple than WZZ
RYR has a fixed work pattern with 4 days off
RYR has union recognition in some countries, meaning they cannot use the individual pilot groups against each other
RYR bases are also 1 hour away from very cool stuff.

Ever tried bumping your shopping cart accidentaly into the wrong guys's car at a shopping mall garage in TIA?

Banana Joe 27th Jul 2021 07:45

Do that also in the civilised UK, report back.

TorqueStripe 27th Jul 2021 20:15

FlightDetent

I think you have no idea about the salary structure within Wizz in regards to basic vs flexible pay components.

Almost 3 times more would mean a Ryan Air FO raking in 6 figures (EUR), and a captain making close to what used to be the going rate in China pre-Covid

FlightDetent 27th Jul 2021 20:38

Aforementioned KUT capt. sum for 2020, please spread the good news.

Not pink PDF (have those, albeit AUH), but rather take home after tax, green printed papers. 😉

To match your PRC comparison it needs to be 9k. Shall we agree to have been symmetrically hyperbolic?

chinese3NMofftrack 27th Jul 2021 23:21

Pearlharbour

Hello again my bitter friend, I love how you say "you" like I'm personaly in charge of wizz and doing these thing to pilots in the company.

Yes, right now the roster is completely random due to the lack of pilots. And it is not great. But as it was before, fixed roster will come back again...even with the possibility of 14/7 for those who want.
For commuters there are free tickets between pre-approved bases, so no, not true.
As for the rest,salaries, ceo bonus targets,etc.... honestly I'm not going to continue arguing.
You clearly think to know more than everyone and I'm clearly not going to (or want to) change your mind.

Wizz is far from a perfect company and there are many other companies that offer better and with more "western" conditions.

Quality of life is what you can make it out of it and be happy with it.

chinese3NMofftrack 27th Jul 2021 23:30

Hi FlightDetent,

First of all, RYR is a company "born and raised" in Western Europe. Wizz is not.
I do agree that during the pandemic, RYR behaved liked a proper airline. You're just forgetting how many years it took, and how many fights, and how many union meetings and more fights it took for it to reach to these "on par with the largest EU legacy behemoths".

Again, most RYR bases are in the west so therefore salaries and quality of life (city lifestyle, education, restaurants, etc) will be higher than in most eastern cities...and triple might be a bit of a stretch, no?

Wizz used to have a pretty solid roster pattern and hopefully will return when the numbers are back to normal.

You guys keep comparing apples with oranges. Nobody is saying that Wizz is better than RYR or Easyjet pilots related (imagine the cabin crew), Wizz is Wizz.

And I completely agree with you guys if they want to expand and grow as planned, they'll need to improve the conditions to a different level. Especially when investing so heavily in a country like Italy.

daywalkera 28th Jul 2021 04:44

If you are about to explain how fair Wizz policies are, let me remind you about how the selection for redundancies was made!

hid3 28th Jul 2021 07:45

A question to those who have applied or are already working at Wizz - do you still need to do that stupid "personality test" to match their "company profile" (must be some kind of extravert)?

TorqueStripe 28th Jul 2021 08:01

FlightDetent

I'm going by actual numbers. A SFO flying around 650 hours in 2020 (Certainly, at one of the bases least affected by restrictions), took home 38.5k EUR (Confair, no multiplier). Times that by 3 would put a Ryan Air FO at 115k for the year.
A 1st year captain (<1000 PIC hours) flying the same sectors/distance would earn 72.5k EUR pre-tax. Times 3 would put him at 217k for the year, around 255k USD, or 21.250 USD/month. Fairly close to China, isn't it? - though I give you the pre-tax vs take home difference.

I'm in no way defending those salaries, by the way, Just trying to keep it realistic.

gpsprimary01 28th Jul 2021 10:57

Hi guys, just to understand : how much make a F/O per month flying around 70hrs.
Is it still possible to commute between the bases as a "floating F/O "?

Is it possible to fly back home fro free ?

Thanks.

aviationvictim 28th Jul 2021 21:15

Okay. So I understand you’re paid as a contractor and pay no social security that will contribute to your pension savings? Or maybe a bit of social contributions in some obscure Eastern European country? An SFO with another company french based would cost wise reach more than 100 as the social cost is a very large part of the total cost for the company. Sadly contractors never seem to understand this and the companies take full advantage of that. The previous post arguing 3 times as much is not as far of as you think but it might not be the right company to make that comparison with as Ryanair still employ on contracts in some bases..

hid3 29th Jul 2021 10:47

Pension savings? You must be either kidding (I hope so) or very naive. There won't be any "savings" paid out what you "saved". It turns out to be a scam in most cases, besides, value of money decreases. When I was born my parents opened a "child's insurance account" and were paying voluntarily about 10-15 roubles per month at that time, which was quite siginificant amount of money back then. Later, Soviet Union collapsed, they continued paying. Indeed, when I turned 18, the "insurance" paid out the money, which was a total sum of 220 Lt (Litas, national currency) back then. This is equivalent to 63.71 Ä according to official conversion rate. How I used this amount of money, you wonder? I paid for pizza's and my coca-cola at a cafe where we were celebrating the day of school diploma.

Moral of the story - learn to save yourself and don't trust anyone regarding your money.


Banana Joe 29th Jul 2021 12:14

Totally agree with hid3. Do you want to be really resilient? Then invest in your finance education. Even if you work at Air France.

aviationvictim 29th Jul 2021 13:45

Using the fall of the Soviet union as an example of why pension systems never work is slightly far fetched. The discussion was wether Ryanair pays 3 times as much as Wizz. Canít speak for Ryan but the employment cost, including pension payments to a separate pension for pilots and other social contributions here in France will very likely cost a normal airline more than 3 times as much as a Wizz air contractor would in an Eastern European country. The discussion about pension and wether or not itís a scam is probably for another tread.

FlightDetent 30th Jul 2021 13:01

Apologies for dragging this sideways with the 3x. While not a typo then, 2x should have been the number. PM available but closing now with accurate numerics:

- 2019 PRC standard EUR 21,5k / m after tax (~ 35% deducted locally)- post #1999: ' earn 72.5k EUR pre-tax. Times 3 would put him at 217 for the year ... fairly close - Err, no. 72,5 * (100 - 40)% = 3620 EUR net. Three times that is 11k. Deffo not the RYR take home, yet pretty short of 21,5 k out east.
Technicalities, sure. Jobless from China is the same as anywhere else.

Main point was that portraying TBS / TIA as 'actually good' requires a lot of pink illumination. Honestly respecting those making the leap, still, in the general discourse 'reasonably manageable' and 'with limited long-term earning prospects' describe the fit better. Assuming no plan to relocate long-term.


First of all, RYR is a company "born and raised" in Western Europe.

[...] years it took, and how many fights, and how many union meetings and more fights it took for it to reach [...]
Come on, you can't take Ryanair out Ryanair. Marauders of court decisions, non-compliant by intent. No doubt MOL dreams it made sense again to run the ship same as JV again.

The first EE countries to legalize self-emplyed pilot were POL and CZE (not exhaustive) but only some 15 years after Republic of Ireland Holdings Ltd. was allowed to run the show. Anywhere WZZ went in the EE they had to offer local contracts.

FD's fun with flags:
Name the countries where the following companites are incorporated: Brookfield Aviation, Rishworth, Confair, Mountain High Consultants, Aeroprofessional (bonus points for marking Commonwealth states).

West fares better because employee abuse no logner makes financial sense, as opposed to being any more cultured. A recent case of WZZ manager's speech explains that well.

The unions were only allowed at RYR where absolutely no other corporate choice was feasible. High hopes this is irreversible and the future brings the same to Wizz. Lack of job takers and people voting with feet is the necessary ingredient.

Pearlharbour 3rd Aug 2021 06:08

Pilots flying 100 hrs/28 days, no rosters, asking pilots giving vacation for free. Asking for flying days off. Lowering the salaries, there is no plan B

the plan is distroy your crews making flying to the limit this summer and ask for unpaid leave in winter. Pilots fatigued mentally and phisically. Cancelling flights and leaving people in ground for their summer vacation due to lack of crews. Chaos.
training department without enough capacity. Not enough line training captains etc etc etc

and at the same time Mr.Varadi making 100 £ mill bonus. 🏃‍♂️

This is WIZZAIR today

PAPI-74 3rd Aug 2021 07:39

This airline is heading for disaster. They are totally losing sight of what's important just to save money, but the reality is crumbling around them. Crews are looking to leave, cabin crew are walking out of induction courses because they are being spoken to like dirt, contracts are being changed time and time again, crew and passenger food if you are lucky, while shares are being handed out to management for keeping us on furlough for a year. Expansion beyond it's current level can't be managed in it's current format, so it really is a risky and unhappy place to be.


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