What's this forum about again? I lost track along the way!
 

:rolleyes:

Why should I fall on my sword? I currently have a job, nothing against the cadet programs, just that there is a short-circuit in the system.

I think to many are getting frustrated of playing the waiting game, so the threads goes a bit of the rails. :E

I think the correct solution would be for people to stop self funding training themselves and get their future employers to make that investment in you, not the other way around.

Define self-funding?

Would not flying be boring if everybody would just go trough the robotic training that is offered by integrated schools.

That's what I'm talking about, that integrated courses be only offered to students with the backing of an Airline.

A far more fair way of doing it than saying airlines should sponsor no one and everyone should do integrated on their own bat. If airlines select the candidates then have them go get trained with the reasonable guarentee of a job at the end, then that'd considerably slow the over supply of pilots on the market, leaving only the self-improver/modular and military methods open to fill any resulting gaps.

Yes it would be boring but your point about over supply does not really stand up to scrutiny...

You complain about "oversupply" yet you describe cadet schemes as a "short circuit" in the system. Surely the way to regulate that would be to have only cadet schemes. Then it would be more like doctors right?

This "free for all" far from being caused by cadet schemes is caused by flight schools being able to train whoever wants to train...

I am not for a moment suggesting that we should try and go down the road of "controlling" the pilot supply because that would lead to all sorts of other problems, I'm just saying that cadet schemes are not the reason for lowering T&Cs.

Organisations like CTC, who both train and then regulate the employment of the people they have trained and have close to a monopoly on pilot supply at some airlines are a slightly different question...

Actually, what was said about medical school admissions is correct. The number of UK medical graduates each year does, in theory, correspond to the number of F1 placements available in the UK as a whole. Medical schools are only provided with funding for this number of students, which is advised upon by the GMC. If a medical school goes over its supposed quota, it's generally down to there having been an excess of (lucrative) foreign students admitted, for whom they won't receive UK funding. Anyone can apply, of course, but they can't all get in. This frequently leaves a number of high school leavers with, on paper, the 'correct' results not gaining a place at a medical school. If there was no relationship to the number of F1 places available, you'd end up with hundreds of doctors with no route to GMC registration, preventing them working either in the UK or elsewhere.

The numbers studying law aren't related to any kind of quota, but there are a ton of law students and graduates who have no intention of ever being a lawyer. The same can't be said for medicine.

I'm saying this from the perspective of having gone to medical school in the UK.

Pilot training, at least non-sponsored, doesn't bear any relationship with the potential number of jobs, as everyone knows.

My apologies to truckflyer for doubting his point about doctor admission I was clearly wrong about that and I will edit my original post.

The point that I was making about oversupply and what causes it still stands though.

Another thing at the route of oversupply and poor T&Cs is that fundamentally aviation is one of the "dream" jobs insofar as the majority of people do it because it is what they have always wanted to do and will accept low pay as the price of that dream. Despite mass air travel, the locos and general loss of glamour in the industry it still carries an X factor about it that very few other industries do. This is why, more than anything, it does not follow the laws of supply and demand.

Many of the FTOs do, however, follow that supply and demand model. So many aspiring pilots willing to take a punt, which seems only to exacerbate the employment / T&Cs problem. The banks have at least realised that; stopping the unsecured loans. I think it's actually quite difficult to get an accurate picture of things until you're in the system (or at least have really spoken to a lot of folk who are). People will happily pull the wool over their own eyes if they think they'll realise a dream. Still, that's possibly an indicator of poor objective judgement.

One of the issues is that over-supply is good for both the FTO's, as they make more money and for the airlines, as because of this they can squeeze down T & C's of future contracts.

Believe me the view from the inside is pretty dim too, I have met and know so many guys, who have thousands of hours, some also with command time, Airbus 320, B737 - are stuck in jobs that they are very unhappy with.

There used to be a belief that earn your experience, and something good would be out there waiting for you, however now, it's not there anymore.

Sure I appreciate that there should be a mix of cadets and non-cadets, but there is something wrong in society, when there probably in the UK are several thousand pilots without a job, and every month hundreds of more are trained.

If the rumors here are true, that 3000 - 4000 guys applied for around 30 - 50 jobs, just imagine what the problem is.

Imagine a real pilot shortage, what it would mean, the airlines do not want this, and of course the FTO's - just want to sell the dream to as many suckers as they can.

The guys I know, say yes we have 3000 - 4000 - 5000 hours on Airbus, where we go now? There are not many good jobs to move on to anymore, even when you have the experience.

Now this thread was about DE FO's to AL, there is an own thread about cadets to AL, I am not sure why this is a topic here, but for sure if companies want to have a cadet program, they should also give a chance to some of the already trained low hour pilots in the same scheme. The odds of any low hour CPL without jet experience or A320 TR of getting a job as direct entry FO are probably pretty low, as there are pretty many guys with thousands of A320 hours applying for the same job.

Aer Lingus Direct Entry First Officers
 

Could we please go back to the original topic?

Has anyone heard about any invitations for interviews from AL already?

Still got everything crossed!!

People can expect to start hearing in mid-August.

Is that coming from a reliable source?

Just had a quick skim through the Shamrock hiring thread, I didn't see anything indicating that applicants had already been called to Dublin.

They also said for cadets if you haven't heard anything back by 29th of June you're out, not the case people still getting emails a month later so don't stress to much, not yet anyway.

So much for hearing from them soon after completing the tests. Two and a half weeks - my PFO email must be lost in the tubing.
:ugh:

Tomorrow will be the first assesment day in Dublin. Group of +-20 persons. I don't know anything about a second assesment day or other groups.

Magicmick - oops didn't see that, thanks for pointing it out. I'm not sure what to think of it and how my chances are affected by that, I think the best course of action is to not read in to it so much and see what happens.

Vipersrt10 - is that assessment group for the DEFO or cadet applicants?

Absolutely the right attitude, sit tight and hope, good luck with the application......as long as you don't have more luck than me!!!!!!!!!

That assesment group is for the DEFO

I don't think so guys... it would be too quick... nothing official points to that,
I think that we all have to wait a few weeks more

A guy I trained with got a call from AL yesterday. He is in Dublin next week for interview. He is a fresh fATPL.

Keep by your phones.

Yes, my information did come from a reliable source. I called the recruitment team at Aer Lingus and that's what they told me.

Comforting news, yet conflicting with what others are saying.

I guess we will have to bite our nails a little bit longer.

Not meaning to sound disrespectful, but why would a fATPL not be called before someone with 1500+ hours on type?

If Aer Lingus only wanted pilots with xx number of hours then they would have stated that in the minimum requirements. Therefore there is surely as much chance of someone with 250 hours getting a call as someone with 10x that, seeing as nobody knows what type of person they are looking for?

I inferred that they are looking to take a mixed bag of pilots, from non type rated 250 hour guys upwards. If they had no intention of taking many low hour guys they wouldn't inundate themselves with applications by not stating a minimum hour/type rating requirement. They probably want to be able to train some newer guys in their own way.

Looks like that day has arrived and still no news from shamrock.

Better get on with updating my cathay application !

I think we should not give it up!! There must be at least one person here, who would get any answer. So if nobody has written it yet, I hope there was no contact by AL to anyone yet.

Don't worry guys, I don't think anybody has been called yet. Any interviews at the moment are cadet interviews.


Syntax Error, I'm pretty sure there are no "inside" candidates.

syntax, the Cathay remark was tongue in cheek. I said it because one the same day (yesterday) I got an email from them telling me to update my application !

Of course I'd rather get the Shamrock gig, but it's all still quiet on the western front.

Any of those who know those who apparently have heard back and were invited to dublin know how they fared ?

Congratulations :ok:

what is your qualification? Do you have a A320 TR? How many hours do you have on type? What is your total time? What was your score in on-line test?

Big surprise for me they selected mideurope guy. I had info they prefer IR UK pilots. This is good news for me.

Wish you luck! And keep us updated.

Hi Watt001! Congratulations!! Just to understand..you have experience and hours or you are like me..low hours and no type rating??

THANK YOU AND CONGRATS AGAIN!!!

GOOD LUCK!!

:D

As anyone received an email like this one? I HAVE registered and completed the online assessment... Strange.......

Antoniomg I got the exact same e-mail even though I've already done the online assessments. Might give them a ring to find out if it's a mistake or not

Where did watt001's posts go ? Was it a wind up ?

Syntax, yep I'd rather be at the pointy end of an A320 for the whole flight as a FO rather than watch a 777 during cruise as a SO. - Plus its closer to home :)

^ $24000 a month! You sure?!!


I too have received the above mentioned email. I actually was locked out from completing one of the tests originally after my laptop froze, so I had to submit them incomplete. I did try email/phone the recruitment team to no avail!

I'm great full for this 2nd chance! However I'm not looking forward to the spatial reason tests at all. I can land a light twin and have a pretty decent training record with no issues, but I ain't too good with these tests!

perhaps he meant HKD :p I wouldn't even know how to spend that sort of amount !!

So they're still doing online assessments, which would hopefully suggest its not the end of the road for the rest of us until they've had a look at these late submitting guys scores.

Anybody else apart from watt001 hear or know anyone who has heard back from AL ?

Hello colleagues. I deleted my posts, because I was probably scammed. Someone called me yesterday, that he was from AL and he wanted to offer me an opportunity and that I would receive e-mail with details. I considered it as an invitation to interview. No e-mail has come and I started investigating.. The number I was called grom started +234 810 .... This should be some Nigerian number and after a small investigation, I found out, that they are No. 1 in scamming people via mobile phones. So, sorry for chaos I made here, I`m more disappointed than all of you together.
So, we still have to wait on... Good luck to all oyf you.

Please call or email AL to let them know about this.

Yes, I did it yesterday, but no response from AL yet.