Any future for newbies?
 

Hi everybody!
I'd like to know your opinion about an important subject.
I've been thinking about this, and about the pathetic statistics from some of my satellite blogs, and finally concluded that I just can't imagine any reason at all why any companies would want to hire low houred pilot for first officer position.
I am thinking about the increasing amount of qualified and unemployed pilots on the job markets.
Don't talk me about flight instructions, and bush flying plz.
For information: I have a CPL IR ME and 270 hrs and unemployed since 10 months (as all my friends):uhoh:

Any future for newbies?
 

Out of interest why do you say don't talk to me about flight ins and bush flying?

How about the military, if not bush flying and instructing. One of those three routes are the commonest ways. Yes, there are ab initio routes, but not if pilots will pay there way.

I did all three, if you consider flying checks the equal of bush flyng. If you just want to buy a wet CPL and think the world owes you an A320 seat, think again.

Looks like another one that thinks he/she is too good for GA flying as a career foundation...

To the OP, how will you pad the 270 hrs without GA flying if you don't find that 'coveted' A320 RHS? It's not that you're unemployed for 10 months, as you say. It's simply that with those hours you are unemployable.

Good luck with the search - you and thousands of others.

Easier said than done. Speaking from experience, if someone has not made becoming a military pilot a priority, it probably won't become a reality. I spent 4 years in ROTC with that as my #1 goal, and it was competitive and selective to get that far. Unfortunately, I didn't get past the rigorous medical exam which was much more extensive than any JAA class, and then I spent another 4 years on active duty trying to find a way around the surgeon general's decision.

In many countries outside of the US, the only way to become a military aviator is to graduate from a military academy, which is usually extremely selective and competitive which I am sure you are aware of. Most of these countries don't have Guard, Reserve, or OTS type of options. Also, a large percentage of these fresh CPL holders in Europe are choosing to not go to university (from what I have seen). I know some countries allow NCOs to fly helicopters, but of course that means serving as a ground pounder for a few years and excelling above their peers.

Also, most of the kids I see who are getting the CPLs are not officer material, nor do they want to be. The majority of them would never understand that military pilots are usually "officers first".

I know that military flying experience is some of the best training and experience one can get, and you get paid to do it too, but realistically, if it is an after thought for these guys, it won't ever materialize. GF, I am not trying to discount your advice, since it is very valuable and sound, but just trying to put some perspective. :ok:

If with companies you mean airlines flying B737/A320 and similar around the world you are right. There is almost no chance at all to get in with just a CPL. It is the state of the industry in 201X and it will probably stay that way. :(

But there are other types of flying where you can build experience. Look into the general aviation sector. Less glamorous but very rewarding for the pilots. Air-Taxi, glider towing, survey flights, banner towing, instructing etc.

If that's not for you:

A) Hope for a miracle

B) Change career

I am always somewhat baffled by the inputs of employed pilots, looking down their noses at us "Frozen ATPL" holders. Standard magnanimous answer: "Instruct, become a dispatcher, volunteer at local club, bush fly....."

Who wants a 270 hour instructor flying for them? I have driven to numerous clubs, introduced myself, had frank conversations, and been politely told there are no jobs, light singles are sitting around gathering dust as very very few people starting PPL at private clubs in UK. Dispatch? Did that for 6 years, before redundancy. My "contacts" are mainly unemployed themselves, or reading consultation letters about potential redundancy. Volunteer???? Don't make me laugh. Again, have met face to face with people to be told there is a ENDLESS queue of volunteers hoping to remain current on something...... Africa??? 2 friend spent 6 months out there, knocking on doors, sleeping in tents, jumping through hoops, and no positions in the end.

Any future? Hmmmm. 57 months since I qualified. I certainly doubt it. My GP tells me half his day is taking up speaking to people from all sectors whose careers have nosedived. In other words the whole of Europe is experiencing austerity, and only the privileged few go on regular holidays. Airlines are on their knees. Very hard to think the future is promising........

There are just no jobs in Europe in any area, never mind flying.
I think the loss of the self improved route has made it harder, as has the reduction in number of turboprop operating airlines offering that essential next step...brymon, manx, channex, jersey european, loganair, business air, eurodirect, aurigny...the list goes on. How many of those TP jobs left.

Now you can either pay/ pass the ezy/ryr tests or that's about it in the uk.

It's not even easy as a n experienced guy. I have over 5 years experience as a capt on 100 T + jets, I've been pretty much unemployed for a year....

Future is not looking good for newbies at all. Getting a job now is only for the ones having very good contacts or some lucky ones in sponsorships. Of course you might hear success stories but the other thousands of unemployed pilots remain silent.

The rest is just gambling with their money. After buying rating finding out nobody wants you without hours, so they pay to fly. 500 hours later a handful of lucky guys manages to get a seasonal contract somewhere.
Then the most important part: They now find out that companies do not hire them, there is enough other guys in line who want to pay for flying.

I feel that most people get into this far too focused on one job, and nothing else will do. If that first job isn't 737 or A320 they just don't want to know.

I went the instructor route, and never had anyone criticise my instruction. Some even requested to transfer from the more experienced older instructors to me since they liked my style. The quality of instruction is as much about attitude and personality as anything, and you have to be good enough to get through the course and test which is a very high standard. Now I'm sitting happy with the airline job I always wanted and all the hard work paid off.

Am in the same situation as the first poster... but been like that for 4 months only....

tried all the contacts i know within the industry, for every position flying anything but no success..... i did not do the instructor rating though since i believe that instructing should only be done by guys who really wanted to do instruction in the first case..... no by default! and who are we kiddig? what can you instruct when you have 200 hours????

well i tried everything everywhere! but no success.. the only thing you have to do is in my opinion is to excel in everything you do that is aviation related. do the extra effort even when you go and fly in the club, get to know people, wash the aircrafts,for free.. and things will get back to you!

it landed me a banner towing training and a paid job! starting after christmas!

and am really happy! since it's in my favvo aircraft!

Might pick up in a couple of years in Europe.

Some people flying outside of EASA land on other licenses and validate IR's on those licenses, left their European licenses lapse and would have been caught out with the IR rules. Very unfair, you would have thought someone flying for major airlines would be able to transfer their IR ratings under ICAO or something onto their EASA. I suspect this might be challenged as their will be a large number affecting in Middle / Far East etc.

This and the requirements for "training as required" for renewing lapsed ratings via ATO's will mean more money to spend before being able to take the test. This might one day help towards creating a pilot shortage in a few years time. Or one would hope....

Problem is, instructing just doesn't pay. May be fun for a bit, as a weekend style thing but there just isn't the money in it unless you go commercial.

Alas I also feel once you go past a certain number of hours it isn't of any benefit.In fact quite the reverse was what I found.

The old way of moving through the ranks has almost disappeared. I went C152, Citation, BAe146, B757 and felt that was an ideal progression at the time. Sadly if I was starting out today, pragmatically, unless I could get in a/ the military b/ BA FPP I'd forget it really.

france
 

if you are in france ,
why dont you go and check these companies out over the alps that offers gliding and build your time there! Tow pilot! :)

Hear hear. I think I have tried almost everything. I've sent 200+ CV's, have personally visited some companies, used all the connections I have, have made numerous new contacts within the industry and I even work in the industry but still nothing and it's been 2 and half years since I graduated. First time IR and blabla.

Some of my classmates have found a job but all of them with either money or connections. Here's some statistics:

4 work for RYR.
3 P2F. 1 got a permanent contract but that was years ago.
1 did 737 and 320 TR's and line training and I haven't heard anything ever since. Probably quit flying. He was a bit funny person too.
2 got picked up by knowing someone in the company. No simcheck or interview. Straight to the right seat.
2 got a job by nepotism.
2 instructing in UK. Well connected as well.
1 got a job with large operator in UK. No idea how he did it?

So conclusion is that there's something wrong with me or simply that there's is no opportunities for low hour pilots with no money or connections. I could say that roughly 30% of the 200h guys I know have landed a "job".

So imo there's quite a little future for newbies.

I've been watching this thread develop with interest. It makes quite depressing reading in places, but I think the useful themes coming out are:

- Essential to have a back-up plan while training, for the inevitable wait for a flying job afterwards;
- Essential not to take on any debt for training if you are then relying on getting a flying job immediately to pay this off, as you probably won't get one immediately;
- Essential to make as many contacts as possible;
- Essential not to be blinkered in what is aimed for.

Which pretty much corresponds with my plan of attack which is modular training, networking, and a full-time back-up career which will allow me to finish debt free, and keep working while searching for flying jobs.

Mooseflies I would suggest that 1/3 getting flying jobs of some kind may not be so bad, when you consider the industry is in the doldrums and the worst position it has been in since at least the early 1990s. Out of interest what school did you train at? I realise that may be seen as mindless optimism :ok:...

@ Cowhorse, yes agreed.

I would avoid mentioning anything beyond a PPL on your CV if possible as this may lead to difficult questions.

I've always found a PPL is a positive talking point in interviews, that helps me stand out a bit from other candidates (espescially as those candidates are dull people who work in corporate tax :ok: ).

I realise it will be difficult to hide if you've trained full time, as you'll have an 18 month gap on your CV. In that situation yes you need to be truthful and have a good answer to the questions that will be asked. Saying that you fancied doing the training, but being pilot doesn't offer any prospect of a stable, rewarding career is probably a good (and truthful) answer sadly :yuk: ...

Just don't tell Them, that you are a pilot!

Because they are very cheap

Worst recession for 80 years - there should be no surprise if you don't find or a job, or you do find one and it pays very little.

@taxistaxing

I did my training in very well known flight school in UK. Modular. 1/3 isn't too bad but I know none who has been called to interview traditional way except RYR guys. Only 2 out of 15 got a job without paying any money but they had some good contacts was my point I think.

@FANS

Yeah, it wasn't a surprise to me at time when I finished my training. I started flying at the end of 2006 and that time there was a huge demand of pilots (at least in the country where I'm from). Future did seem a bit brighter then.