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-   -   Can a pilot with an MPL become a captain (https://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/496844-can-pilot-mpl-become-captain.html)

HumaidDaPlane 30th Sep 2012 21:35

Can a pilot with an MPL become a captain
Apologies if I have posted in the wrong place but I have been looking at MPL sponsorship program's offered at flybe, easy jet and monarch and I was wondering that can a pilot holding a MPL get upgraded onto the rank of a captain.
Many thanks

P,s what is the better option the fATPL or MPL.

Scott C 30th Sep 2012 21:46

I may be wrong, but I believe that your MPL becomes and ATPL once you have reached 1500 hours, just as it would if you held a fATPL.

Once you have the ATPL, then you are eligible for a command position.

HumaidDaPlane 30th Sep 2012 22:06

thank you sir

pakythepilot 30th Sep 2012 22:12

There are a lot of posts about mpl, you just need to use the search function on the right top of the screen. Anyway I'm going to try to explain you in a little resume how MPL works. With the MPL you'll be able to fly only multi crew airplanes, thus it's usefull hold this kind of license if straightforward the end of the training it has been assured an employement with an airline. The big flight training schools obviously permit to get trained as a MPL cadet, if you only access into some cadetship with an airline company as flybe and easyjet do, because you have actually an assured job at the end of the course and you can reach the miminum requirements to get a full ATPL License working for this airline. Basically your training is going to be under the supervision and in a way which the airline, that you are going to work, prefers and after 1500 hours that you fly the multi-crew aircraft which in you are specialized for, you gain a full atpl license, and you finally become a full air transport pilot as anyone else and eligeble to be an aircraft captain and so on. So the point of the situation is that a MPL without an airline assured employement is a useless license.

angelorange 30th Sep 2012 22:36

There's a bit more top being a Captain!
"Once you have the ATPL, then you are eligible for a command position."

Actually that's just the first of many steps towards a Command position. An ATPL gives you no automatic right to command.

Suggest you start with this free training:


An MPL is a Co-Pilot licence with minimal hands on flight training. It can be done with as little as 70h flying and the rest in a SIM.

Post AF447, Colgan accidents, etc the regulators are looking at it again due to the loss of manual flying and airmanship demonstrated by 0 to hero courses.

MPL best avoided or if you really have to then get a back up in place to obtain full CPL/IR in case you loose the job you are after.

Scott C 1st Oct 2012 00:54

angelorange, I didn't say that an ATPL will give you "An automatic right to command", I said it makes you eligible.

Holding a fATPL makes you eligible for a job with an airline, but it doesn't mean you're automatically going to get one...

mad_jock 1st Oct 2012 09:12

A mpl has to be done through an airline approved training scheme.

There will only be folk that have done a MPL to have the airline go bust out there looking for work with a MPL. And quite what they do I really don't know.

So unless you are on a scheme forget about MPL.

The normal traditional routes are the only way if you are intending to self finance and then look for a job after training.

AppleMacster 1st Oct 2012 10:36

Sterling went bust in 2008 and it left their MPL cadets in a pickle:

Downturn throws MPL pilots on scrapheap

No RYR for me 1st Oct 2012 11:13

What a non sense. After you have finished your MPL with TR and basecheck you can move to any other airline. In the worst case you only have to change your TR... The Sterling guys were actually a good example: they were all hired by other 737 operators. On top of that this was in 2008 and the authorities have all become one under EASA since then so there is no way they can stop you from swapping airlines :ok:

So in short: go for it. There are not many good options out there and if you have the choice by a sponsored MPL with a job at the end or a speculative CPL with nothing at the end it is a no brainer! :8

PURPLE PITOT 1st Oct 2012 14:22

A mpl holder will by definition never have had command of anything. 1500 hrs of checklist reading do not a captain make.

PURPLE PITOT 3rd Oct 2012 09:45

All of the LCC's treat their F0's like that, regardless of how they obtained their ticket.

Happy flightings:O

Dan the weegie 3rd Oct 2012 09:48

A mpl holder will by definition never have had command of anything. 1500 hrs of checklist reading do not a captain make.
Bit sad that's all you think the FO is there for. I certainly don't just read the checklist. I'd hate to fly with a Captain that thought this way - how horrid.

As for the MPL - I'd be very surprised if the MPL provides you with much more in the way of Airmanship/Captaincy or handling skills than an integrated fATPL course. My understanding from the Training Captains is that by in large most integrated students need plenty of basic flying skills training to get them up to scratch. I wonder if any experienced training manager has commented on this?

Personally I think the MPL is an excellent option for people who are guaranteed a job at the end of it flying larger aircraft for a big airline. I still think that those people with many more PIC hours make better pilots at least in the early part.

PURPLE PITOT 3rd Oct 2012 10:30

i have fond memories (NOT) of being treated like that when i was an FO. Consequently, i am not fond of that system. Unfortunately it seems to have developed because new joiners are appearing with not much experience, and the training systems have been tweaked to focus on singing the company song, and therefore "appearing" to be competent.

Better to have someone with experience sat there in my humble opinion.

And yes Dan, i am commenting on this!

Dan the weegie 3rd Oct 2012 11:07

Sorry PP, your first comment was a little glib. If I had understood your feelings on it then I would perhaps have phrased differently.

I did fly with a Captain just like you say, he also didn't speak much English - came from an Eastern european school of thought. After one day I told the Flight Ops Manager that I wouldn't fly with him until we shared a language - definitely not ICAO 4.

I agree with you, what I've noticed is that the integrated guys come to their Command training and just don't seem to have the decision making capacity that you only get from flying on your own and so appear to really struggle initially. Is this your experience also or is it more a personality thing? If so, what difference does MPL really make over Integrated?

I wish the old way of flying Modular then some TP time, then on to big jets was still there. Mostly because I'm a TP driver :)

PURPLE PITOT 3rd Oct 2012 11:19

Unfortunately the only way to get experience is to go and do it. In these days of sausage factory fatpls and type ratings, this just does not happen.

There are new "captains" at some LCC's that have no concept of decideing how much fuel they want to take, because they have always been told how much they will take!

I must admit, i had not considered the personality factor. In the good old days, everyone had been through the same selection process, which usually involved some personality testing. In short, everyone had "the right stuff". These days it's all about the ability to pay. More research to do i think!

jez d 3rd Oct 2012 12:42

Because there are so few MPL courses running in Europe currently, competition for a place on them is fierce.

This means that those running the programmes have been afforded the luxury of being able to choose only the very best applicants. The result of this is that MPL graduates now flying the line are proving to be exemplary FOs.

PURPLE PITOT 3rd Oct 2012 12:46

Thats nice, but its their ability as captain that is being questioned!

jez d 3rd Oct 2012 13:08

In the good old days, everyone had been through the same selection process, which usually involved some personality testing. In short, everyone had "the right stuff". These days it's all about the ability to pay. More research to do i think!
Depends how far back you are looking, PP.

Judging by your age, when you were training the cheque book was king.

The selection process has improved considerably since then and includes some of the most advanced physchometric testing techniques currently available. With reputable schools accruing a percentage of their profits in order to afford to offer a 'skills guarantee' i.e. a refund if you don't cut the mustard, it is more than ever in the school's interest to make the assessment process as thorough as possible.

There are of course less reputable integrated training schools out there who will sign anyone up and refuse to offer any form of skills guarantee. T'was ever such.

Concerning the argument as to whether these MPL graduates will make good captains, time will tell, but my hunch is that they will prove their worth.

Feel free to lambast me when the first MPL graduate turned captain proves otherwise.

Lord Spandex Masher 3rd Oct 2012 13:16

Originally Posted by PURPLE PITOT (Post 7446886)
Thats nice, but its their ability as captain that is being questioned!

Why should their ability be any different to an integrated guy with the same amount of airline experience when they come to their command?

PURPLE PITOT 3rd Oct 2012 13:25

Agree with you LSM, but at least they will have some solo time!

jez d 3rd Oct 2012 13:33

So will the MPL graduates. All MPL courses currently running include solo flight and recovery/upset training, as stipulated by the mentoring airlines

Dan the weegie 3rd Oct 2012 14:08

But surely it's such a small amount of solo time that it makes no difference which way they train. I wouldn't suggest they make bad captains, I wouldn't know. But it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that they take a bit more time to pick up the "non flying" skills vs. someone with the same hours on type but another 300-500 hours of real cross country flying.

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