I'd work for them..
Well, I'm lucky enough to have 2,500 hours in a shiny jet, and still building, but I would love to go and work for Buffalo. I feel that I lost out on my apprenticeship and experience by going straight to jets, hence I have started SEP flying again in a number of roles, and am looking to become an instructor.
I imagine Buffalo turns out some of the most rounded pilots with a complete knowledge of everything to do with their industry / company - something I am having to actively seek and gain. We should all know about loading / ops / crewing / commercial / the list goes on. |
This guy started washing aircraft in exchange for flying lessons
I am no pilot (unless you include hang gliders), but I did attend a talk given by Ed Mitchell, who started at the bottom. If it's good enough for him....
Edgar Mitchell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia |
Isn't it voluntary to work for Buffalo Airways, or do they snatch people off the streets in the neighbourhood and chain them to the ramp?
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I have flown Airbus and Boeing for nine years. Before that I worked the ramp fueling and sweeping hangar floors as a fully qualified Multiengine instrument instructor. If more of the little Emperors in the LHS had done a bit of ramp work they would understand and utilise the crews alot better.
There is never humiliation in work. |
Through doing hard work I developed that respect of people from all backgrounds that so many people my age lack.
I chose a non-flying job (outside aviation completely) over a flying job (flying on a basic CPL) because it paid circa £300 a month more. That's £300 a month more I can drop into the bank. In approx. 2 years I will have enough to complete training, and enough over to pay for a type rating (if I so wished...) or get dirty again flying proper aeroplanes in the fun places of the world, safe in the knowledge that I earned every penny and built some real character along the way. Humiliating? Pah, when needs must :ok: |
Isn't it voluntary to work for Buffalo Airways, or do they snatch people off the streets in the neighbourhood and chain them to the ramp? |
Just don't tell a certain Irish Airline that pilots know how to load baggage. |
.....a couple of months even years as a "rampie" loading/unloading cargo, refueling, removing ice, all sorts of ground handling stuff that could be done by anyone before they even get a chance to get in the right seat..... |
Please don't think the opinions of the OP represent the 'younger generation'.
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Apart from all discussions about the spoilt youth as opposed to the rugged old-timers (being documented in ancient Greece already) or whether pressure makes diamonds or merely more compact garbage (to quote from a Dilbert strip): is it really helpful for the proficiency and currency of a pilot to do all kinds of support work (instructive and character-building as it may be) without flying an aeroplane for several months?
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I don't know if the original poster is for real or not but I was bloody glad to get my first turboprop job, which involved heavy loading of 2 tons of newspapers at 6 am every morning and about the same amount of cargo and freight every afternoon. It was actually a pleasant change for me because before that, I was hand loading hospital stretchers with massively obese patients on them, into the back of a Chieftain in a New Zealand flying-doctor kind of setup.
It's all about attitude, our chief pilot who was ex-RAF fast jet and ex-Cathay was just as happy to muck in and do the heavy lifting. And my wife was ecstatically happy to get the same job, when her turn came around. Three years of that and I got a good job on the A320, if that's "humiliation" then I heartily recommend it to anyone :ok: Having subsequently worked with a number of Egyptians at Qatar Airways, I have to say I'm not at all surprised to see the nationality of the original poster or that he might consider such a thing as hard work to be "humiliation" :hmm: |
is it really helpful for the proficiency and currency of a pilot to do all kinds of support work (instructive and character-building as it may be) without flying an aeroplane for several months? Many smaller operators, skydive outfits, smaller flying schools etc operate on a similar principle. They can't have passengers or glory boys or personalities that clash with their collegues. That's how I got my first flying job. I kept turning up with my smiling face until they got fed up and let me loose on one of their aeroplanes. When the the other pilot left I moved into his job. The pilot who followed me got the same treatment. But others came and went despite them saying they would 'do anything to fly with us'. Apparently turning up regularly and mucking in wasn't one of things they would do. Fail! Looking at the first series of Ice Pilots there was a character who typified the problem. He bitched a lot and wondered why people were passing him by. Disappeared by the second series unsurprisingly. Sorts out the Skygods from the pilots. |
Acknowledged, but even if I was sufficiently tough and motivated to be an ice rampie for several months or years, I'd be worried about skill loss and asking myself about the point if all I get to do has little to nothing to do with actual flying. Thoroughly testing for cultural fit, eliminating any skygod attitude etc. is all cool and pro, but there is IMHO some latitude between immediately complimenting a potential new hire into the cockpit and keeping him/her out of it for several months or years to check his preparedness to accept ground duties. And referring to a previous post*), I certainly doubt that months of ramp work are any effective prevention of further "37,000 ft plunges".
Anyway, one must probably not forget that what one gets to see is a TV show. The reality might not be quite as black & white (and full of uncompromising starting-from-scratch-and-remaining-there-for-months-or-years romanticism), so actually new hires may get to log some flying time in addition to doing a fair share of ramp work :-? *) http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/495961-humiliation-canada.html#post742371 |
Nothing like missing the context.
If the attitude of the OP - "supported" by PFT and MPL - is really the future of our industry, then heaven help us all. There may be more 37,000 ft plunges in our future ... |
Well, I pushed planes around, had my overalls disintegrate one day when some plonked spilled hydraulic fluid on me......worked only for flying hours for 9 months.....etc.
These were the days of the self improvers, unfortunately I never improved but it did get me a shot at a jet 7 years later. |
Nothing like missing the context. If the attitude of the OP - "supported" by PFT and MPL - is really the future of our industry, then heaven help us all. There may be more 37,000 ft plunges in our future ... Still, I maintain that an "attitude of entitlement" (or just wanting to fly instead of merely doing ramp work when applying for a pilot job) doesn't contribute nearly as much to potential 37k feet plunges as a lack of currency and practice. |
Well, if we look at Canada, aviation is playing a big role in this country and the training and hiring system works very well.
Please don't change anything. |
Hi Guys
I left the UK having done my PPl Night and IMC, as there was little hope of a job in the UK I came here to Canada and did my hour building, IFR and twin for half the price. I worked a ramp for a year which is a really good way to weed out the guys who are weak minded, weak in character and have little substance. It tends, not all the time granted, but it tends to give you the type of guys that after a year of hard work and hardship are what are need in the cockpit in terms of CRM, learning and listening from their captains, putting in the hard work before and post flight, will not just walk away from the aircraft at the end of the day, will help out the ground crews, know lots already about the plane as they have studied it for a year as to be ready for their chance and be the type of guys (and girls) you can rely on on a very cold winters night shooting an approach at a uncontrolled airport. May be for some of us its a dream that we are willing to do any thing for. In fact I so impressed with the Canadian way I am writing a book about it. Hope you guys will like it. My hard work put me in the right seat of the BE02, no auto pilot, learning so much every day. Hope you understand everything thats going on in your Jet first day you sit in it. Canada has it right I pray they keep their system and it doesn't turn in to the utter sadness that I see in the UK Keep the faith you guys that watch planes as kids and dreamt, there's always a way. |
Mark: very well put, nice experience of yours which is the kind of experience you'd get in Canada.
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It seems to me the OP didn't really watch the show. The young folks vying for some RHS time in the DC-3 were pleased as heck to be there. And the company boss, when he had them flying with him was teaching the whole time. He wanted them prepared (read the manuals, imagine that!), and understanding the responsibility involved from the very first minute in the aircraft.
He was a serious and hard-nosed teacher (well, except the time the Great Dane crapped all over the cabin), because it's a serious and hard-nosed environment he's operating in. His young trainees should be honored to be there, and they'll turn out well. (**Full disclosure: just a PPL here!) |
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