aviator101,

Read the thread - the scheme hasn't been made public yet.

B&S

how do you reckon, payment will work, like will you pay them £80,000 and get a salary straight after training or will you have to work for them for free for so many months?

I think if this 'sponsorship' does require the cadet to take out a loan of +80k like other such schemes, it is not going to be available to everyone. People like myself for example, who:

a) My mum rents our house, so loan can't be secured.

b) My dad lives with a new partner in her house, don't need to explain why I can't secure a loan here.

c) I don't own any property to secure a loan against.

And...

d) I don't want to put other peoples livelyhoods at risk. I live with my brothers and sisters, my grandparents are living retirment to full travelling the world etc etc. Why should I risk making them homeless or stamp on their dreams and aspirations because I want to fly a shiny jet! (Point D is of course a personal opinion :}!)

In short, I can't get a loan. No loan means no 'sponsorship'.

Craigyd

If this cadet programme is a sponsorsorship then it will be paid for and you will not need to borrow money.

If is a mentored scheme then you may have to get a loan.

Its illegal to offer something as a sponsorship and then charge people for it for what ever the sponsorship is for. There have been many law suits in America on this and I know a person that has sued a UK airline & the FTO in question and the Judge granted the case in favour of the Trainie Pilot and rightly so. There are to many companys misleading people into these so called cadet schemes and then on the entry requirements you have to pay for the course. Thats bollix, Just call it self funded co-pilot course or whatever and stop getting peoples hopes up for marketing reasons!!!!

Agreed. It iscrazy to think that to become a commercial pilot you would need £60k-£80k and go through one of the training centres, then you aren't necessarily guarenteed a job unless through a sponsorship scheme, which for the record "they" (the airline) can get away with sponsoring you a small amount of the total, however you then have to look at the job guarentee front. Its very much catch 22.

Not being funny, gentlemen, but let's get very specific here. You say But what you actually mean is "you have to be filthy rich or your parents have to have very deep pockets to get onto one of these schemes without actually having to work for it yourself first".

There is absolutely nothing stopping you working for x many years to save the money to be able to pay for it yourself. Indeed one of the last batch of TC cadets to be accepted (And now flying the 757 for them) did exactly this. The ONLY thing stopping this approach, is you yourself. Have some pride and go and EARN the right to train, rather than spending someone elses money to do it.

To moan that you can't get the loan for this and that ends any hope you have of applying for it says very little of your commitment to it.

In response to the original point, no, it's not fair. Welcome to life.

Rather than getting in to a slanging match about the morals of paying to train and fly, why don't we all wait for the scheme to be announced and then you can all debate then.

Based on what I have heard so far, this sounds like a very positive scheme and Thomas Cook should be commended for encouraging new people into the airline industry.

Let's just see what happens.

awwww - but I want it NOW!!!!

Much like self-certifying Greece ;-)

Okay, Okay.

I am getting impatient now. Anyone know when the announcement is likely to be made?

at some point in June ... :rolleyes:

so june, with a view to starting training by??!!

I believe its starting in October 10 to complete by spring 12 then two years with Flybe then on to Thomas Cook. Obviously this is all dependant on a high level achieved throughout training and line flying with BE.

completion by spring 2011 you mean right?! sounds good. i love a good rumour...

hmmm
 

I had an interesting conversation with a friend who flies with another major british airline today.. he said that there had been talks of Flybe "getting into bed" with his airline a few years back and it came to nothing in the end.

So maybe don't be surprised if this does not materialise.

As a wannabe, I hope it does, but as said initially, it was an interesting insight to hear.

It's happening guys. The details were passed on to the TCX trainers at a training conference a few months ago. It's already the morning after the night before and the getting in to bed bit has been and gone!

Final prep's are being made now, patience is a virtue lads......(and ladies)

Indeed Flybe gave their final approval for the scheme to commence some weeks ago, this is well beyond "talks" - it is going ahead.

Keep your eyes peeled in Flight magazine and good luck. :ok:

A general straw poll suggests that there is nothing to benefit the current dash jocks in this at all having asked quite a few of them.

Quite a lot of people are actually really quite unhappy about it on line...

I can categorically say that there is no plan to have a TCX / Flybe training contract.

The main reason is there is no mutual benefit for Flybe crew.

BS

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on that one BS. however, I also don't see how it would benifit BE.All I keep hearing from tri/e and senior skippers is that it's all going ahead. We will see,

rgds cabus

I can see how it would benefit BE. They get a number of high quality pilots whose dash type ratings are paid for by TCX and whose salaries are paid by TCX for the 2 years they are at BE. How can that not be a good thing for them?
I agree it might not be of any benefit to existing Flybe crew but since when has that been a consideration for penny pinching airline executives when they are making these kind of decisions.

this thread seems to have died a death.. does anyone have any new info on the scheme from over the last week.
cheers lads..
Av.. :ok:

A group of paying Q400 students for FlyBE's new type rating center is a plus and free FOs for two year's is a plus. The hard part will be keeping their feet on the ground so to speak since they will all know there's a big shiny jet waiting for them. The scheme is loaded with opportunity for resentment from FlyBE's other mentored cadet FOs if this lot act haughty or cliqueish. If BE are smart, they'll send them to different bases.

and what happens if students dont cut the mustard at BE to make the reqd standard for the big shiny jets??!! will they continue on at BE until such time at a loss to TC or will they be horsed out with a bill for the rating.. i dont think keeping them apart will be an issue as they will only meet briefly on the ramp from time to time..
it sounds like a great scheme for the lucky choosen few, BE and also for the standard of future crew in TC..
just hurry up and launch it lads....

What on earth makes you think that Flybe operate to, or accept, a lower standard than TC?

If they're not up to scratch then I'm pretty sure they'll be shown the door in fairly short order, regardless who picks up the tab.

Exactly, just because Flybe don't operate big jets doesn't mean that they are a substandard airline with lower standards. I don't think TC will treat Flybe as a holding pool, more like a judicator as to whether the pilots are good enough for a piloting career at all; not just whether they are good enough for TC. If they are not good enough for TC, they shouldn't be good enough for Flybe.

OK, time for someone to maybe put a few facts to all of this. I work for TCX. I was AIH/MYT before and a direct product of the then Airtours Cadet Training Scheme. In essence, this scheme is almost exactly the same. Maybe it's because both the present TCX DFO and CP (ex BA Citiexpress) have direct experience of how the previous scheme worked.

All candidates were screened and interviewed. Yes, there was and still is a financial element and all candidates had to be able to meet all of the criteria, BUT it is a guaranteed job at the end with TCX. Flybe get a free FO for 2 years and I can categorically state that during my time at BRAL/Citiexpress we were treated EXACTLY the same as any other resident FO. However we were not part of the BRAL seniority list or able to go for promotion. We were listed on the AIH seniority list and paid by AIH. To my knowledge there was never any resentment, we even met up with some old faces when we returned to MYT, as it had become.

What TCX get is a capable FO, with experience and able to pass their jet type rating. They have a knowledge of how the line works and a degree of commerciality. Sometimes that's a bit lacking in 200 hour cadets. They can complete their jet line training in 14 sectors rather than the 40 or so we have had in the past.

What Flybe get is a capable FO, paid for by TCX. They do not have to worry about where to put them as they can be based anywhere. They do not have to worry about their career progression and they can map exactly when they will leave.

All of the folks that wish to pour scorn on the scheme need to look long and hard at what else is on offer - precious little. Those that pass, and eventually join us will have a great time, both at Flybe and TCX. If I won the lottery, I'd go back to turboprops tomorrow, and I'm the skipper of one of those 'big, ever so difficult to fly, shiny jets'. It's not half as much fun!!!

At the risk of being deluged, feel free to PM me for more info. I know little more than has been made public but would be happy to add any more detail people may want.

Regards

Flyinthesky

Thanks for some real information flyinthesky, can I just ask what the financial element in your scheme was? Is it a large security bond or just some smaller payments for accomodation etc. I am guessing it is not a full sponsorship.

flyinthesky,

Is this scheme definitely going ahead, as I have spoke to other guys based at manchester that work for Thomas Cook that have heard nothing up to now. If it is going ahead has there been date set for when the scheme will open?

Thanks greyb33

The scheme has been approved at board level. Timescales are unknown to me but the names of the interview/mentoring panel are. So unless a radical decision is made to cancel at late notice then I would not see anything changing.

As for the financial elements. This is not public yet, and still being worked upon. The scheme of old (MYT) had the candidate paying for all costs upto the end of s/e training. The company then picked up everything from m/e training onwards. You were bonded for 5 years on a reduced salary which paid back the bond.

I'm not going to guestimate figures because training costs have changed so much since I went through Cabair!

Jambone,

the previous scheme was a fixed price deal. Provided you met the companies recruitment criteria and could meet the financial obligation, then you were offered a place.

The emphasis being on getting the best candidates, not the richest ones. The whole background behind the introduction of the new TCX scheme is recognising that it benefits them to have a stream of very capable FO's coming through, who should then stay with the company long term. It is not about whos' father is richest. Previously, anyone with more flying experience than PPL would not be considered. This was so that the company could control the type/std of training each potential FO would get.

The selection process won't be based on who has the wealthiest background (no schemes are). Unfortunately, it is an unfair world where young people don't have equal opportunities (especially in this industry). If you want to train to become a pilot and don't have parents able to pay for it all for you, you have to work far harder and it will take much longer although it will make you into a more rounded person at the end of it. You will still be required to provide however much money is neccessary for the training; if you don't have it you won't be able to do it. Let's hope this scheme is relatively low-cost for the cadets.

when this scheme is posted to the public, do you know where it will be advertised first, so able to apply in time. i monitor thomas cook website under careers for pilots. but al this seems too good to be true and im just worried i am going to miss it

Paulboi,

Save yourself some effort and just keep an eye on this thread!

B&S :ok:

When it goes live, I should imagine it will be advertised both on the TCX jobs website and in the back pages of Flight International.

But someone will have it on here before the ink is dry, I am sure!

.......just a thought...........allegedly and all that.............

I wonder how many of the successful candidates will have relatives or connections with TCX................

:ok:

I went on a Thomas Cook holiday once. Do you think that would be worth mentioning?:ugh:

Not sure where it will be advertised. I know internally and almost certainly FTE website.

Selection will be based on Jerez screening and then TCX will interview a pool of about 20-30 and do online numeracy/literacy and possibly MBTI/Emotional Intelligence. 8 places planned for 2010.

Basic deal - cadet pays for Jerez course, TCX pay low salary during time in Spain. Next 7 years (2 in FlyBe), cadet is paid lower salary to amortize the 2 TR's.

:)

Intl Cadets?
 

Anyone knows if this programme will be open to international students?....:bored:

Aye fill your boots. Its well known there is a shortage of pilots in europe.

No problems at all getting a work permit.

The converstion to JAA is a piece of piss as well only cost 10 quid. Stick you application in and give them a ring every couple off days to make sure they know your really up for the job.