Eastern Airways Scam
 

There have been one or two articles recently commenting on how some airline companies may be immoral. I think the latest recruitment strategy of the above company falls into this category - this is how it goes

You are asked to attend a three week groundschool without pay and probably at short notice. You will be asked to take a sim ride and probably pay for this yourself. If they like you they will send you to the U.S.A for sim training and you will have to sign for a 15k three year loan which they will pay if you stay and you will pay if you leave. You may wait a few weeks for the sim obviously without pay.

Problems - Who can suddenly leave their current job for three weeks to attend such a grounschool without a job offer. Who can loiter around for a few more weeks without pay waiting for further training. Who wants a 15k loan hanging around their neck for an aircraft (J41) that is only flown by their company in the U.K. What happens if you fall out of favour with the company after a few months? The only person who would be suited to the above is a rich unemployed person who is desperate. I know there are some desperate people about - BEWARE!

Nomercy

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

What do you mean BEWARE? No-one is forced to attend. If you don't like the sound of it don't go along and pay your money..........I think the word SCAM is a little strong, it is no worse than many other companies in the market.

PP

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

Nomercy, no brain more like :hmm:

Eastern Airways a scam, honestly some of you lot don't know you're born do you.

One of the last few remaining operators in the UK that actually takes on 200 hour pilots, pays them well even while they're on their training course, and still bonds people as opposed to making them go buy a rating, man if that is a scam then I only wish they had scammed me when I was fresh out of flying school looking for a job. In fact when I was floating around the job market with 1500 hours of instructing looking for a job I would still have ripped their arm off for an interview.

Seriously nomercy if you are unemployed and you go turning down a quality outfit like Eastern because you reckon it's a 'scam' then you deserve to have your head examined. Or work for Ryanair. Or both.

Mods you really should delete or at least re-title this thread, because it does a real disservice to a bloody good employer of wannabes, to have a title like that floating around :(

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

Dam... Im moving to England. If you think thats a scam get your lazy arse down here to OZ and pay 30k for your 737 endo.
Bonded in a job is better then no job in my books.
:eek:
And get your facts straight, "You are asked to attend a three week groundschool without pay and probably at short notice. You will be asked to take a sim ride and probably pay for this yourself", don't post this crap unless you know for sure.

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

Sounds more like someone got turned down, is a tad bitter and needs to throw the dummy from the pram!:} :eek:

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

pilot petes reply is perfectly true - no one has to attend. My post is intended to let people know what is happening at this company which is a change to their previous methods.

There are possibally people who have the time and money to go along with such schemes but there are also many who can not afford to take the chance for financial or other reasons.

If a company takes low hour pilots this does not instantly make them a good company but i can not make judgement on that.

If people are prepared to pay silly amounts of money for type training that is their choice. Any scheme which in any way does a disservice to a person who has already paid many thousands of pounds to qualify is a scam in my view - and you have to question the morals of people who think otherwise!

Nomercy

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

Nomercy,

Im with Luke Skytodler on this one. I think you are out of order in critisicing this company like this. I dont know what experience you have or what your background is but can I suggest that this method is a small price to pay to get an opportunity with a company like Eastern Airways!!

I for one had an interview with Eastern and was asked if I was willing to attend a 3 week groundschool without job offer, I was also asked to do a sim assessment which I have to pay for. I did not hesitate to agree to the above request, a small price to pay for a fantastic job.

It is not a 'SCAM' and as the others said, if you dont like it then look for another job. There are alot of wannabies out there looking for a job who would quite happily settle for the above. Its sink or swim my friend!!

Muppet..

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

No, it's not a SCAM but it is another example of a small company trying to save money at the expense of its future employees. Perhaps Eastern is actually going to start to incurr some real costs for operating the J41 - has the Citiexpress subsidy run out at last?

£15K for the bond - probably overpriced and I'm sure you could convince a court to that effect but it is no great tie given that the majority of raw recruits would probably stick with an outfit like Eastern for 3 years in any case. It is the self-funded ground school and sim ride where the compnay, and others doing the same, are taking the proverbial. I have some sympathy with Nomercy in that takers of this scheme are doing the airline a huge favour and themselves a diservice - why the hell should you subsidise a company who might, after 6 weeks, throw you back on the scrap heap? It is the company which requires your skills and dedication and if it isn't prepared to pay for that from day 1 then it isn't worth working for.

PPrune is weighed under with threads concerning the erosion of terms and conditions professional pilots have suffered over the past 10 years, the self financing of type ratings etc. While people are prepared to sell themselves short to the likes of this unpaid work scheme Eastern is trying, then employers will continue to try it on and the mugs will still roll in through the gates. The first mug may well do well but he is doing no favours for the mugs that follow and don't. They walk away more out of pocket and more disillusioned.

Day 1 of ground-school should be day 1 of your paid employment!

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

Terms and conditions have only been eroded as people are willing to accept them. Morality may be one thing, but in running a business that is successful at recruiting pilots, it is irrelevant in this instance.

First it was bonds that were immoral, now it is paying for type ratings that is immoral. Morality moves as more desperate people enter the job market. The fools are not the company but those whom accept such offers.

This offer far exceeds those from some whom cut everything to the bone. Stop whining and accept it - it is you whom made the free decision to enter the industry, presumably not under duress.

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

Hardly a SCAM my friend, more a condition of the market place, its been happening for some time and was certainly quite common when you sold your grandmother to buy your licence! the whole paying for your type rating is too big an issue to resolve here.
It is however a new thing for Eastern as in the past the employee was interviewed bonded and on the payroll from day one.
I was offered and grabbed with two hands the oportunity to fly a 748 for emerald, training costs up front no guarantee of a job on an aircraft that was as much use as an ashtrsy on a motorbike!..............SCAM...............NO as i knew what it was i knew the risks and the benefits it was my choice.
At least Eastern operate a modern fleet with EFIS, medium weight TP well maintained Aircraft with an excellent training record and some very good people. I'm not blowing sunshine out of their b?@*"}! but you could do a lot worse.

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

I fly at Humberside and speaking to some of thier pilots and crew I would be up for this so called scam-a good outfit and for a wannabe like me it would be an ideal first job.
If you are confident in your abilities then surely its not much of a risk unlike a 737 type rating is.:ok:

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

And I'm one of them, If Steve, Chris or anyone wants to PM me from Eastern I can be at Humberside for an interview within a few hours!

I would of assumed if you got as far as an interview with them you would of been aware of what to expect from the company?

YYZ

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

It's not a scam - everyone seems to have been uinformed up front of what is involved. HOWEVER, it is a cr@p offer. People in this industry need to stop paying to have a job. F atpl and MCC is enough to pay for. If you pass those you ARE good enough to fly an airliner - it is easier in many ways when compared to single pilot IFR.

Therefore do not agree to these unpaid offers. A pilot shortage is coming in the UK - just look at the amount of jobs coming through compared with 18 months ago. The affect of sucking up pilots from TP / instructor jobs is now happening, and those with a F ATPL will have a good chance of an interview in the next year if they are "good people".

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

This deal is not a scam, my understanding from the above is that all you are doing is standing your salary costs for three weeks and paying for the sim ride. Sounds like the ground school course is paid for. (How hard are you going to work at the ground school if your continuation with the company depends on it?)
I worked for Eastern from 2003 for 18 months. Then you took out a 12,000 loan for two years which they paid off (you never got involved with the cash transaction apart from receiving a bank statement once a month. the payment to the bank was never paid late.) This has now changed to 15K over 3yrs. Why? To dissuade folk from leaving It’s a bond that’s all . Eastern have been hit with people moving on to the jet operators.

As for my time with the company well I enjoyed it immensely you get fantastic training, great people, approachable management. For the sake of paying for a sim ride and three weeks worth of salary you would be a fool to turn Eastern down if they offer you a place.

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

I can only echo what everyone else has said, I would kill for a job with Eastern. Left Banking to gain my fATPL which I now have but guess what I am back doing!!! Would swop my nice desk and chair in my office for the RHS in a J32/J41 or Saab any day and twice on Sundays.........so if any one from Eastern reads this you have my CV already!!! :D

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

I decided to leave this thread run with this title as the replies eloquently and fully establish the true nature of the deal.

Its sad that less than 5 years ago I was able to join my first airline on the 737 and got paid not only expenses for the interview but full salary on day one of the induction and groundschool course in return for signing a three year paper bond. This is how things should be but aren't anymore.

Sad. Not immoral. If nobody applied...

Cheers

WWW

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

Perhaps nomercy should have looked up the definition of "scam" in a dictionary before using the word inaccurately.

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

This is not a "scam" in any sense of the word! What's wrong with using the groundschool as part of the selection process? As far as I can work out they are not charging you for it, so it's just an extended interview.

Surely the point of a bond is to dissuade people from leaving in the first place, not just to recover the cost of the TR when the actually go. I'm sure the inconvience of having to replace the guys you've just trained runs into thousands as well, whatever type the company flies.

I feel like a broken record here, but surely if people stopped whinging and actually got on with their lives they would realise that there are still a lot of positive opportunities out there, this one included! And if you don't like the way this industry is going then don't write "I am willing to pay of my own type rating" in every covering letter you send out!

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

I have worked for eastern over a year now, its a top notch company to work for, im just glad ive got a flying job. if people think its a scam (which it isnt) then dont apply. easy enough people.

the people i fly with are great, very experienced guys i can learn from. the j41 is a fast turbo prop so u need your witts about you, and puts u in good stread for that all important jet job.

Re: Eastern Airways Scam
 

Just had an email back from wendy stating that not everybody will have the opportunity of an interview but re submit your details in 4mths. If they are recruiting, I certainly would'nt mind an interview and 3wks loss of pay. If there was a break between groundschool and sim theres no harm doing a bit of agency work.