Eagle Jet becoming illegal?
 

I've heard the EU is working to make Eagle Jet and other similar schemes illegal. Has anybody heard anything on the subject?

On what basis? Got a reference?… I would love to think that some politician has done his job for once by showing the EU what these ‘pay to fly’ schemes really are - Plain immoral, and the EU is taking action. But for some reason I don’t think so. If it is true, it’s probably because European and / or UK based ‘pay to fly’ companies are jealous.

Please God! Here's hoping ... and lets hope that they make it illegal for someone to buy a type rating without job offer while they're at it :ok:

Why are they making it illegal though? On grounds of flight safety, or anti-terrorism legislation, or economic / minimum wage laws or what?

Dont believe this = its just a function of the market that these schemes exist

I hope that they do make it illegal and illegal to but a TR without a job.

In fact I would like to see that there is some kind of minimum requirement put in place in the UK (with the help of all UK airlines) before a student is allowed to commence flight training. All commercial flight training schools should have to improve to a standard acceptable by the airline industry.

In this way only competent students are allowed to spend their hard earned money and should hopefully reduce the number of students going through, so as to create nearly 100% employment.

At present money buys you a job and there is too much wastage in the industry with the flights schools benefitting. We need to find a way to make sure that we do not lose pilots from the industry after training.

But agree....lets start with EagleJet.

several complaints have been sent to the EU commission concerning people buying hours on airline jets. eagle jet is on the "ejection seat"

if you join eaglejet, you risk to find yourself with no $, no plane to fly, and no manager!!!

A320 rider,

....it is also true if you don't join eaglejet!

I personally know 3 colleagues who went through Eaglejet's program, they are all now employed, flying, well paid.

I personally know 3 colleagues who went through Eaglejet's program, they are not employed,not flying,not paid;)

Their heavy jet programs in Southeast Asia have done well since most pilots get employed straight after completing their line training. Waiting lists do seem to be quite long but that also can show how many people are interested in enrolling and how well their business is progressing.

There are an increasing number of agencies and airlines participating in "pay to fly" schemes and I don't think a sudden stop to this practice of not allowing self sponsored type ratings+line time will actually occur.
The line training is just a chance to make your 0 hour type rating look more plausible. If anyone does get a type rating, make sure there are these hours with it, job or no job.

It used to be that to become an airline pilot you had to basically come from the military, period. If you weren't ex-military you wouldn't stand a chance of getting into a jet. Naturally for these guys employment was 100%. So are you saying you would prefer that system now? I'll tell you what you're saying for you... you want legislation that provides you with a job. At least you have a fighting chance to get hired in this day and age, be thankful for it.
And make no mistake, aviation is ABOUT MONEY. IT'S ONLY ABOUT MONEY AND THAT'S IT, IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT THEN GO BE A DENTIST. :eek:
Seriously... some of the people on here...

Well said Gnirren,

People must accept this industry won't turn back the clock and go back to the old days. There are SO MANY more routes now to get a job and if flying for free, no matter how "immoral", at least realise where this industry is heading. Stay in or stay out of it.
Another point is that even if you can fork out thousands on line experience/type rating, you aren't going to get anywhere unless you are actually damn good.

Just a question.What makes pay to fly immoral?

That's an easy one jamav8r.

Eaglejet and pay-for-training and buy-a-type-rating and work-for-free schemes means that those of us like myself of limited financial means, who scrimped and saved and borrowed for a while and came up with a financially viable plan to get into this business, make a small return on our investments and live a half decent standard of living, just like any other normal wage slaves in other words. We now find when we get to where we wanted to be, that wages and terms and conditions are so severely compromised by rich stupid little :mad: ers who are willing to work for free, that normal blokes are seriously financially compromised and can't even pay our existing loans, let alone earn a decent living, let alone put a bit aside for our old age!

Make no mistake, those of you rushing to buy type ratings now are costing me and all my early-middle-aged colleagues in this business a ton of money, as surely as if you'd come up to me in the street and mugged me and stolen my wallet. And the stupidest thing of all is that you're not only robbing US now, the robbery you're inflicting is going to be 10 times worse for your own grown-up selves and your own children.

If that isn't immoral I'd like to know what is.

Next question?

Then in that same token Capitalism is immoral, free markets are immoral; the concept of demand and supply is immoral.

I am presently enrolled in a play to fly scheme, and believe me it wasn’t my first choice. I didn't see it as a way to fast track my way into the airlines, but as a means to continue to build time, time which may seem a bit more appealing to a potential employer.

I would much rather build my time while being paid, but I waited 8 months after completing flight school without a sniff of a job, finally got one flight instructing, then lost that one, by no fault of mine, and sat four more months, again with no prospects. So since I was blessed with financial support to buy block time and keep flying I opted for that.

I fly because I love it, not because I expect a big payoff at the end of the day. Forgive my ignorance as I ask this because I genuinely want to understand your point of view. Explain to me how this is causing you and your colleagues tons of money, and will cost me and my children 10 times over in the future.

Jama if you have an instructor rating and are based in the US without employment I would seriously rethink your plans.
I personnally know many instuctors in the US that have never been out of work, some moving on to airlines, regional jets etc, they would never in a million years think of buying hours.
You live in an ideal place for gods sake, maybe just maybe your not the kind of guy for the aviation game?

Another simple one
I am presently beginning a new job with a UK based airline....my starting salary in £4000.00 less than what it would have been had the company not introduced a Pay for your T/Rating scheme last year (Im type rated from a previous airline..who paid for it and I was bonded) and now due to this fact, my salary is capped at an upper level as there is a glut of T/Rated pilots who think that if they "just" get that first job they can fly for a low salary until they get a job with an airline who pay higher salaries.
Jamav8r
I fly because I love it, and because its my profession, I dont need individuals who have more money than sense creating a false and subsidised market place by injecting capital and lowering my terms and conditions. You and the others like you are destroying this industry, use your determination, your skill, and your talent to gain a job, dont use your wallet to buy a job:mad:
Finally ask yourself this question..if everyone buys a job, and pays to fly, why do airlines need to pay salaries? (if you cant figure this out, and dont see how this is destroying our industry, then quite frankly I dont want you or others like you sharing the airspace I operate in)

I never said i lived in the US...i am flying in the US now...If I had a green card of course I could find work. I am from Jamaica, jobs are next to none there.

I am not buying a job...I am buying time to apply for a job. I am not buying a type rating and no one is promissing me a job when I get done. I don't fly in Europe so I do not know what it is like there. I fly in the Caribbean where there are very few jobs. My other option was to sit at home and do nothing or go find another job, in another field.

I want to fly as much as you do and the fact that I have to pay for flight hours does not make me any less a pilot that you. So this not wanting to share airspace with me is just plain nonsence. Be happy you have a job, you should try sitting around for months to years just to get a job flying a cessna 152 to build time. Try applying to the airlines with that.

Excellent mate, you fly because you love it, not because you expect a big payoff at the end of the day. I'm glad that you're getting to do what you love, really I am :ok:

Well rich boy one day you may wake up and find that you have spent all your money, by which time the whole industry will be comprised of you and your rich mates telling yourselves how clever you are for "doing the job you love" and nicely subsidizing Michael O' :mad: ing Leary's latest country estate acquisition in the process.

And I really sincerely hope, that when me and my mates have got nothing but dusty old photos and memories of us doing the job that WE used to love too, before it got too expensive for us to keep up with the rich kids and we had to go work as supermarket shelf stackers or something, I really hope you end up somewhere :mad: ing cold, old lonely and penniless, in some drab grey state funded retirement home, with a good 20 or 30 years of old age to think about what a short sighted stupid loser you were.

What do you think I did when I didnt have an airline job?..sit at home twiddling my thumbs? no, I flew 152's, 172's, 206's, 210's anything I could get my hands on. I instructed, flew Air Taxi's, did charter work, and also worked about 3 day jobs. So as Luke says, I hope your happy, your ignorance is astounding, so what if your in the caribbean..do you think that because your somewhere else its all that different? newsflash its not.

Yes you are buying a job, yes you are being foolish, what it boils down to is that you are not prepared to work and gain a position on your merits, you like many others are selfish and ignorant, without the benefit of understanding or even listening to those who know a little more about the situation than you evidently do.

I hope your happy:yuk: