Thanks scroggs

CAE email
 

Sound like it might be a good sign, has anyone had the email that has not been invited for assessment within about month?
And if so what sort of experience have you had?
Me i have 320hrs, 125 P1, 50 multi and just starting work as FI.
:ok:

facial hair
 

You will never get hired as an airline pilot in the USA if you show up to an interview with a beard. The FAA prohibits it due to sealing issues of oxygen masks on beards. (hey, I don't make the rules).
To show such ignorance of a Federal Aviation Reg at an interview would only be slightly less damaging to your chances than showing up with alcohol on your breath.
good luck.

claycomm the reality, which few Wannabes want to acknowledge is that the "big money" often does not arrive. It especially does not arrive for those who join Ryanair and in accepting the conditions they accept demonstrate that they are willing to "compromise". Once you do that, the only issue is how much "compromising" will be necessary. Each year, steadily, the conditions deteriorate and people still line up. (Even the promise of a full time job in Ryanair - whatever it may actually mean in practice - can no longer be guaranteed; as for the money, what is said at interview to get you to part with your 737-800 conversion money is one thing - just try to get that in writing and watch them wriggle!!).

We are now beyond the point of warning people, because it is absolutely clear that until large numbers have been "burned" the dangers will not be accepted by many aspiring pilots. I fully accept that a Wannabe will say in reply - with some legitimacy - that a job with Ryanair is better than no job at all. Possibly this is true - BUT they would be VERY foolish if they think that there is lots of money to be seen in the near future. Ryanair start as they mean to finish.

If you have significant debts make sure you can survive without pay for a sustained period and with low pay for a few years. Do not count on promises of earnings at interviews or on banner ads here on pprune. Talk to REAL FR "second officer cadets". They will tell you the real story.

At the moment there are large and increasing numbers of aspiring pilots paying for CPL/IRs. In the next few years a large number of them will discover that the investment was a disaster. There are not going to be enough jobs. Terms will deteriorate to whatever point people are willing to acccept (including long periods with no pay). We just have to wait ....

With a follow up to Claycomm's question: When are the contracts shown and when are they signed? Could somebody who has been there share this info. This would be greatly appreciated. Also, in what detail is salary development described in the contract? Is the job guaranteed?

and what exactly is the pay during line training ? (Jan 07)

There is, somewhere on pprune a copy of a document which is a "guide to employment in Ryanair" or some such title (that version is very old but should be enough to help). Your priority should be to find a copy since nobody is prepared any longer to come along every few weeks and post the same old information to those who are just going to ignore it anyway.

Based on the questions asked above, here is what you need to know:

1. FR have a substantial number of "cadet S/Os" on their books. These pilots pay up front for the B737-800 rating, at which point they are effectively entrapped in the Ryanair system (they cannot afford to opt out).

2. Payment follows a Ryanair interview, but payment is NOT to Ryanair but to an intermediate organisation.

3. From that moment until line check there is NO pay. When things go well this period is not much longer than you would expect. When things go badly it can be mind-bogglingly long (well over a year).

4. When there is pay, it is at a significantly reduced rate. The period on the reduced rate varies from 11 to 18+ months.

5. The rates of pay are NOT as discussed/promised at interview. Nor are they the same as the "up to £ / € " figures which appear here on pprune banner ads from time to time.

6. In most cases the candidate is promised a full-time job with FR if they ask the question. In practice a substantial number find that they are given no choice and must become a Brookfield contractor.

7. It is VERY rare for those who find themselves on much lower pay than they expected to find an opportunity to do anything other than accept what has happened to them.

The key things to understand is that Ryanair is very different in its approach to S/Os and new pilots. New pilots are a profit centre and are NOT a cost to the airline. There are far more S/Os recruited than are needed - hence the long delays that occur from time to time. I know of NO S/O who ever saw an employment contract before parting with their money for the type-rating (training contract, yes).

After you pay, they don't care what you do, how much you complain, etc. because at the slightest sign of resistance to their manipulation you are given a simple choice: "do you want to resign, or do you want to accept our generous offer of X?" (Needless to say, X is not generous). After waiting for the line check, recent S/Os have found their earnings significantly lower than expected.

Those who think they have to endure all of this for a "good job later" are taking the risk that there will be "a good job later". The jobs are paying less and less all the time. Reason: the fact that people Q up for treatment such as I have described above.

There is a long line of applicants for these jobs. You are simply joining a "race for the bottom" and to contribute to Ryanair's profits. To make sure you will survive all you need to do is ensure that you have more financial reserves than the others. Also relevant, but little talked about, are the failures. Quickly abandoned and forgotten about.

There is a difference between pessimism and realism. The latter is based on the realities, the former on a judgement. This does not mean that things won't work out well for some. But it is to say that the rosy image of the airline pilot is long gone and you need to avoid ill-considered and wishful thinking before you start down this path.

hey
 

Reading this .im quite happy i failed !!!
I rather fly my Do228 Cargo around in Europe ..to big airports ...and get treatment like a Professional....

Though:oh: ..im still quite yealous about these guys flying a nice 737 ...but i will be there also one day .....on a normal contract ...where they pay your Uniform !!!

Cheers

The links you need are in this post within this very thread! As you say, people won't bother to read them though - or, if they do, they'll choose not to believe them.

Until it's too late.

Scroggs

I have been offered an interview with Ryanair in early Feb and after much consideration I have turned it down. Apart from the very valid points made above, who wants to fly for an airline that has an online gambling section to their website? :rolleyes:

Coul someone please elaborate? How are you being entrapped?

If you are not shown and havn't signed your contract of employment before paying money for TR, you will be put in a position to accept any terms after the training contract terminates. For example if the company gives you only a contractor (Brookfields) contract what can you do? The type rating has been paid and therefor you've been entrapped.

whats brookfields website address
 

Does brookfield have a website I have googled it to no end still no luck. It only comes up when mentioned on pprune. I wil like to know more about them.

Brookfields
 

Brookfield website, but not much on it. http://www.brookfieldav.com/

Brookfield, as has been explained in other posts here on pprune has a very close association with Ryanair and number of former Ryanair employees have been associated with the company. Brookfield has been known to telephone successful applicants for Ryanair within minutes of a successful interview.

Brookfield might, for example, offer a training contract or a Brookfield contract ("we pay more, since you are a contractor"). Legally Brookfield is totally independent of Ryanair. In practice ... well things look very different.

Brookfield is thus the organisation you will have a problem with, not Ryanair, if financial or other problems arise. You might well be promised a job by Ryanair, but if you sign a contract with Brookfield, what value do Ryanair promises have?

As someone has just posted elsewhere here on pprune there is a veritable industry of "suppliers" feeding on the uncertainties and ambitions of "wannabes". It is not going to stop and the costs of being "assisted" will continue to rise in parallel with dropping pay until people start to cop on.

One consideration to bare in mind is that once you have been based checked and Ryanair have spent money on you, it will cost you money to leave. You would have to reimburse them the cost of the base training and any line training carried out. The base training is 845 Euro's per circuit and the Line training is charged at £90 per sector with a maximum of £6,000 repayable. So if for example after 3 months you wanted out you would have to pay them back the above before you could. This may be the "entrapment" that was mentioned earlier.

But this is only for the training contract or....?:hmm:

There is also the famous 3 month's notice which Ryanair want (even when they are not entitled to it). If you don't give it to them they will stop all pay due and threaten legal action. MANY pilots have had that experience. The idea is to help them deal with the high turnover of pilots by slowing down the attrition rate to enable them to bring more of the "unpaid reserve" of pilots on stream. More cannon fodder.

HI TO Polarhero AND USE THE RUDDERS,

Received same email on 24th Jan also.Did u receive any further call or email about assessment ?

Best Regards,
cessna310.

To those that manage to get offered the type rating course at cae or sas how did you fund it? Does hsbc still gives loan for the type rating part with the guarantee of a job unlike funding from scratch. Is the training offer from ryanair enough to convince them? Replies will be highly appreciated.