Here's what the Airlines really want!!!!!!!
 

Pruners,
I have a friend who is a civilian CPL holder with 500hrs fixed wing experince, he also has an instructor rating. He is finding it difficult to get notification of civilian companies recruiting for pilots with his experience.

Anyone know of companies recruiting?

Cheers in advance

PP

Jenvey, Mike wrote:

RTFQ - :p

Is there any other sort of CPL than a civilian one??

PP - has he registered with the recruiting agencies?

Hi peoples poet
 

Has your friend got an instrument rating? If not thats why he has had no response from the airlines. Without an IR the only realistic employment opportunities are instructing or glider tug pilot.

Regards,

Han.

Yes he has ME and IR, it just seems that with only 500 hrs interest appears to be low.

PP

Suggest that being the case that he just keeps building his hours through instructing, once he hits the 1000 hour mark the calls will start to come. They did with me. He just needs to be patient and keep applying.

Regards,

Han.

Here's what the Airlines really want!!!!!!!
 

for all the bull going on this site, here's a survey that outlines what the airlines really require for FOs. age, knowledge etc are discussed. This will aid anyone seeking training as it seems more about the right type of person than ur type of training that you did. have a look anyways and let me know what u think.
wasteful feedback need not apply
http://www.gapan.org/career/survey.htm

Young and Wealthy
 

So to summarize you need to be under 30 and loaded, so that in addition to the frozen ATPL course, you can afford to fork out for a type rating. You need flying aptitude greater than that required for the CPL as well being good looking and having an understanding of your place on the flight deck (broke(n))

Cue A320rider.....

mmmm.

Let's remember this was a fairly small survey (seven operators). There are a number of general things that don't ring true to me, which is probably due to the sample size and make-up.

Flyingbug - where and how a licence is obtained is important for a number of operators unfortunately.

I'd like to hear those with direct recruitment experience (Scroggs?) give their verdict on these results - IMO they are interesting but not as significant as you suggest Cheevere.

So it's true.......it's really about cheque-book employment! Or, the classic something for nothing. Fork out for your PPL/Hour-building/CPL/ME/IR/MCC/JET SIM/Type Rating, and we might consider whether you have a suitable personality for the job!

This is an interesting review, but would you expect employers to take any different view? Ask any employers in any industry what they want from new hires and you'll likely get – 20-30 years of age, educated, skills qualified, team player, leadership potential. It's a bit like asking which I would prefer for FREE – a new Skoda or a new BMW 5 Series – no contest! In others words, surveys such as this across many sectors will always provide results most favourable to the group being interviewed.

One thing that might be worth further elaboration is the supposed “personality” types desired. Which I might suggest will usually reflect the predominant types already in situ in the organisation. Let me throw one out.......passive, subserviant, sycophantile, performing, smiley, happy. But I'm not biased, am I? :)

Age Barrier Confirmed?
 

So does this mean if you're over 30 don't bother trying to become an airline pilot?
I'm 42 and when I started my training - just prior to 911, I was 38. Now fully qualified and still unable to get hired, I can see why. But when I started I was firmly assured by Oxford that age was not a barrier! Maturity and experience were well sought after, I was told.
So it was all "bull" was it? Should I go and get a job at Tesco's then?
I wonder how this will stand up after October 2006, when it will become ILLEGAL to refuse someone a job on the grounds of their age without damn good reason! So long as my class 1 medical says I'm fit to fly, I can't see them finding one.
I am considering spending 20K on a type rating at the moment, but perhaps that will be a complete waste of money!
See this government thread: http://www.direct.gov.uk/Employment/...9&chk=q3aE%2B4

I cant see how that law could work.
If they didnt want you because of your age they would just make another excuse on paper.

42 seems too old
 

to be honest mate, i think 42 is well to old to get employed by an airline. oxford told u that ud be ok, thats sounds about right coming from them, but considering that the retirement age is 50 for over 90% of airlines id say ur s**t out of luck. On the plus side ive heard BA are extending there retirement age to 60 but id imagine u did modular which would exclude you from them also. have u thought about getting an instructor rating and doing that?? as for paying for type training i wouldnt recommend wasting your money.

cheevere

But it is fair to ask who the hell GAPAN are are to whom they sent the questionnaires? I'd suggest that the answer is a bunch of old farts sent a questionnaire to the morons who pass themselves off as Human Remains. One of the questions they left off was "What are you doing to select and fund your own direct entry ab-initio cadets?" But it doesn't really matter because we all know the answer: "Bugger All!". Until the airlines start putting their hands in their pockets, then they will have to take whatever turns up on the doorstep - whatever the age and experience level! The reality is, they have to crew planes to operate flights which have already been sold - where are these rich (or deeply in hock - and we haven't talked asbout university top-up fees yet!) 20 year old somethings with a university education, jet exposure and life experience! As ever, HR have their heads so far up their own backsides they can only see their teeth.

Well the same could be said for the disability or race discrimination laws... but the laws work because individual cases eventually come to the tribunals and to the courts and Company Policies change to reflect the law. I'm sure there will be some inertia, but after spending over 80K to get stuck at the back of a dole queue - I'd be the first to bring a case against any employer who says I'm too old!!!

Well, 55 seems to be the average from what I can see. Employ me NOW and you get at least 13 years out of me flying - and then give me a desk job until I'm 65!! That doesn't seem a bad deal for any employer - ESPECIALLY as I've funded the lion's share of my training. It's not like they have put any real investment into me!

Even though that GAPAN page has "21-Mrz-2006" (Mrz??) at the bottom of it, it is yonks old. I could be 2 years old, but I certainly recall it knocking around a while back.

In addition, it is a survey. Organisations do two things with surveys: 1) Delegate the completion to a junior member of staff 2) Answer how they would ideally like to operate rather than what actually happens.

Cheevere,

As you will no doubt be aware, with your extensive knowledge of airline recruitment practices;) , networking is a skill to be developed by any wannabe - i.e. be careful who you flame!

42 is not 'well too old' - I know two people personally who were employed at this age or older as a first job. One is currently flying a 747, six years after getting his CPL at the age of 40...

Your other 'facts' can also be comprehensively disproved with a little careful research.:}

HWD - 'Mrz' = Marz. GAPAN obviously have a German calendar machine thingy...

A few things about this survey
1) it is 3 years old
2) only 7 airlines took part in it - a fair representation?

IF you really want to KNOW WHAT THE AIRLINES WANT, pick up your phone use a bit of initiative and SPEAK to the airlines directly. No bullsh*t.

EGBK... Thanks for this. I can sleep a bit more soundly now ;-)

Interestingly, I just picked up an article on P.10 of the 28 March (or should that be 28 Mrz?) Issue of Flight International entitled "ICAO favours Older Pilots".

Apparently BALPA has called for "nonsense legislation" (retirement age <65) to be relaxed, arguing that the stringent medical and technical tests pilots are subjected to are enough to establish their competence and fitness to fly.

Well done BALPA. Logically the same should be said for the recruitment age as well as retirement.

Aerospace101 / High Wind, Thanks for pointing out the age of this survey.

Wloud it help you to know that, although GAPAN are impartial, EPST is a Dutch commercial training organisation who select cadets themselves and place them for training with OAT? Notice only the multi-choice response came from the airlines, the comment comes from GAPAN/EPST. Nevertheless, it seems to be a fairly valid survey with no real surprises. You would expect airlines would want to hire type rated 25 year olds, the question is not "who would they want to hire?" but "who do they hire?"