BA Citiexpress (pseudo) Sponsorship?
 

Just looked in the back of flight international, it mentions the BACX Approved Pilot training Scheme.

Anyone know if this is ab-initio or for people with ATPL's already?

Horgy

Hi

Its ab-initio, run at Jerez, you fund the course and if you meet there requirments you get a job at the end.
Id apply but the age limit goes up to 1986 so guess you have to be 19+ to apply shame.

Best of luck :ok:

p.s application forums on Jerez homepage

ba citiexpress sponsorship
 

Hey any body else out there go through the first phase of this and been sent out questions to reply to?

Can somebody explain how the finance works? do you have to fund the entire course yourself or is there any form of sponsorship?
If you pay for it yourself then i assume they expect you to take out a bank loan? If this is the case then currently career development loans only go up to a maximum of £55K. Probably need about 7oK to complete the integrated course so where does the extra 15K come from?

BBVA bank in London has dealt with FTE before, and will loan you the whole amount. If you PM me I'll email you the standard pack they send out.

Beware though, the repayments look very frightening!

Hi

From the sound of the course it seems to be a mentored program, and you pay yourself. Yet have job offer before you start training
Yet you should get a course reduction on the price since BACX could claim the VAT back on the course so you get 17.5% off the price of the course. Do not quote me on that though please i know thats what happend with Excel and Thomas Cook when they ran the schemes with OAT. You may also be able to get the loan unsecured since you will have emplyment at the end of the course.

Still ive had no joy with BACX since im just outside the age range, so im setteling for OAT in the summer.

The info is a bit scetch, so please dont quote me please feel free to correct me on any aspects :ok:

Good luck to everyone who goes for it

ADWJENK

Hi guys.

I got the questions sent to me and have answered them and sent them back about a week ago.
Has anyone heard anything regarding getting through to the BACX stage at Manchester? The questions are sent out to all the people who meet the minimum requirements so I dont know the distribution of standard of the applicants that have applied probably vast from people with just GCSEs to those with first class honours, what type of qualifications / experience do you guys have?

Just so we can all see what are own prospects are of proceeding with the scheme.

The following response is based on my views about the recent FlyBE 'mentored' pilot scheme. Just adapted for BACX...FTE's current cost for their integrated course is £63,216 (today's Euro to Pound rate).

According to PPJN.com, year 1 on turboprops gets you £20,808

Year.............Pay

Year 1........... £20,808
then add a measly £800 a year until year 12...

Year 12......... £29,589

For those that go into this with very small funds you are looking at a £60,000 loan minimum with interest this is going to cost you £84,000 over 12 years or £583.33 every month for 12 years. FTE/BACX are not advertising the tax free part of it like OAT did for Excel and TCX so rest assured it probably won't be the case. Anyway, if you want to pay it back in 6 years (which I think most sensible human beings would want) you will have to fork out £1,000 per month. All this out of your own salary. How can anyone manage £1,000 for a loan, £500-700 for rent/mortgage, £200 on outgoings for 5 years on an average salary of £23,000!

This kind of approach cannot work with a BACX turboprop salary. It's madness paying out that sum of money to guarantee a job which will pay you a mediocre salary for 12 years. Those that are successful at getting through, don't think you are lucky in anyway as your finances will be ****-poor for the next 10 years. Think ahead is my advice.

Why not spend £35,000 going the modular route, if it takes you 2 years to find a flying job so what.... Live a little, work in another field. Remember, no airline is going to employ you if it's your first job after leaving college! If you're on a crappy salary like the BACX one for 5 years then at least your not an extra £40,000 in debt.

I have also replied to the answers and heard nothing now for a wekk and a half. I have got GCSEs and A levels and doing a degree in avaition managment and operations. Did you guys get an email confirming they had recieved your answers?

Wannabe24,

Anyone starting on the Dash 8 fleet will most likely find themselves sitting in the 145 after approx 12 months. Salary then jumps to approx £34,000 plus flight pay which aint too shaby all things considered! It may not pay well, but the dash is by far the most fun to fly - so enjoy the experience if you get the chance.

good luck

W-S

What a risk!!!

FTE, who will gladly take your money, knows full well that the airline may well be defunct by the time you would finish an integrated course from now. Several sceptics believe that WW will close it anyhow.

So once again, the only winner (again in this business at this level) is the FTO. Laughing all the way to the bank.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/airlines/s...683688,00.html

:rolleyes:

Perhaps as there is no VAT on flight training in Spain?

Window-Seat,

If everyone moved on after 12 months, they wouldn't have any Senior FO's or Captains on the Dash fleet. Obviously I don't know the figures but I seriously doubt it if they would allow more than several Dash FO's to move on to the 145's each year.

craggenmoore,

Thanks for the link. Take a look at the news article you gullible wannabe's. FTE have realised that they can market their courses better if it was done using an airline's name and this is what the 'mentored' approach is really about. Don't fall for this new trap.

Surely you wouldn't you be "locked in" to join Citi at the end of the course if you paid the fees yourself. Hence you could work hard on the course, knowing that there is a better than average chance of a job with Citi and then try for BA, BMI or the charters who have a history of taking integrated students if you could get better pay? I can't see how any bond system would be legal given that Citi won't be offering any consideration.

You're not 'locked in' to CitiExpress, no, also re:

"Yet have job offer before you start training"

No you don't. It's a crock o'sh*te. Try getting a letter of intent off them before you start, or any sort of vague written confirmation. It won't happen. At the end, if they're in the mood and have spaces you may get priority over Joe Bloggs, but the airline is under no obligation whatsoever to offer you a position even if you come top of the course and pass everything first time with flying colour, they can just walk away and leave you jobless.

Seems like the only 1 getting anything out of this will be FTE :hmm:
Typical nowadays, it’s a shame really ow well. Maybe if you had written confirmation, but ow well its seems that this is the closest where going to get to sponsorships. A training captain checking in on you every once in a while!

Can't help being glad I didnt apply now, modular CPL here we come :}

Horgy

Wannabe24

Having been there myself not too long ago, I don't know any recent FO's who have remained on the Dash for much over 12 months without at least being offered a RHS on the 145 or RJ (possibly at another base). I flew the dash for 10 months before going on to the Embraer.

Company policy was to 'type freeze' FO's for 2 years, but due to the low salary, most of them would have disappeared once they had 500 hrs multi crew time!! Another issue was the fact that some new joiners were going straight onto the jets, and starting on around £12,000 pa more than the established Dash FO's! (which didn't go down too well)!:hmm:

Not sure what the latest policy is but wouldn't expect it to be much different.

W-S.

How do you come up with that assessment? Most of the graduates are taken with minimal hours from FTE and Oxford by jet operators. How is wrapping it up with a bit of mentoring at all a bad thing? You gain from the extra business awareness, you gain from being ahead in the queue even if there are fewer jobs when you graduate, and it is wrapped up in one package with one training record from an established provider whose sole aim when it was started was to cater exactly for what British Airways required of its cadets.

I think that some opinions are somewhat utopic that the days of sponsorship will return again - this is the next best thing and should be chosen well above modular - if you are indeed in a position to be able to choose.

If everyone is so willing to pay to train for a licence, do you really expect a company to sponsor ever again?

The subject of integrated vs modular has been done to death, so I won't go into it here. But suffice to say your sentence sums it up perfectly. "If you can choose" - some of us don't have £65000 available to us. When I can go modular and save myself £35000 - which will buy me a new car AND a nice type rating on an aircraft of my choice, why should I succomb to the hype of going to a training school just because it's looked on slightly (and even that could be the basis for a flamewar) more favorably.

I object to the concept of integrated schools, I think they are money making empires setup by unscrupulous individuals who want to make simply that. Money. I fail to see how integrated can be twice as expensive as modular when the training is more or less the same.

And for what it's worth, I KNOW the days of true sponsorship are over.

Horgy

Well that depends entirely upon your individual assessment of the financial costs and advantages in the long-run of going to either of course.

Oxford (Oxford Aviation Services Ltd) the trading company made £752k in 2003 and lost £10k in 2004. Hardly money hand over fist.

FTE was sold be BAe Systems as not being profitable enough and out of fit with their strategy.

Cabair (CCAT Ltd) appear to have made about £42k in the 17 months to 31/3/2005 with the group as a whole losing £73k.

I think that covers all the integrated schools. Care to dispute Companies House data?

Why is it more? One training record. Structured course. More aircraft. Simulators/fixed base FNPTII tools. Higher experience instructors. Continuity of training. You don't mess about having to build hours outside of a structure environment. No need to think about housing (for some schools). Services provided at more established airfields.

You may not value those, but that is not a matter for which anyone here pass judgement. They are the reason however that they cost more, and are more highly valued as a result by the employers. Equally the modular provider may provide a high standard of training, but on the factors such as contacts and facilities they may find it hard to compete.

If your objection however is to entrepreneurial companies making money, then words fail me - go to Cuba.