Career advice for Pilots..
Torvald thanks for the question. Given we are talking a 12month to 36 month period (from the issue of the article to 24 months prior) until 911 the likelihood of an increase in accidents is minimal. However as I stated the article raised the concern about safety. It did not state an increase in accidents (hard to find stats on this given the numbers involved around the world and the quick name changes from bankruptcy) . From a logical point of view having someone up front on a small regional as PIC, well most people would like someone with 1000 hours under their belt as opposed to 400hrs. A bit like the surgeon doing his first cut as opposed to one that has successfully done the operation 100 times.
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Interesting discussion.
I was once on an Aer Lingus flight back in the late 90's on the jumpseat and the Captain enquired why I was leaving a well paid IT career for flying... I told him IT was boring... he then recommended I stick with IT and if he could have had the chance he would have studied IT and not had a career flying.. Unfortunately I ignored him.
Finished my CPL/IR back in the early 2000's and due to personal issues left in early 2006 after a few years on the 737, before flying I saved for my licence with IT work (having a Computer Science Degree) and after I went back to IT, and within a few years my career returned back on track effectively.
There are HUGE advantages to having a steady 9-5 (possibly well remunerated) job, family life stable, time to enjoy yourself and hobbies.. have a life... I mean you only have one!
This may well be a chance for some to reevaluate things and decide a change is long overdue.
Sorry can't offer career advice though.
I was once on an Aer Lingus flight back in the late 90's on the jumpseat and the Captain enquired why I was leaving a well paid IT career for flying... I told him IT was boring... he then recommended I stick with IT and if he could have had the chance he would have studied IT and not had a career flying.. Unfortunately I ignored him.
Finished my CPL/IR back in the early 2000's and due to personal issues left in early 2006 after a few years on the 737, before flying I saved for my licence with IT work (having a Computer Science Degree) and after I went back to IT, and within a few years my career returned back on track effectively.
There are HUGE advantages to having a steady 9-5 (possibly well remunerated) job, family life stable, time to enjoy yourself and hobbies.. have a life... I mean you only have one!
This may well be a chance for some to reevaluate things and decide a change is long overdue.
Sorry can't offer career advice though.
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Seriously? I've only briefly worked in IT after uni but all those who "persevered" in the industry work 9-5, sit in traffic both ways. Time to enjoy yourself? On the weekend when everyone else is off too?
None of my previous colleagues have 12-15 days off a month, 3-5 days off in a row. I work way less and enjoy myself a lot more. The ones who are paid on par with me are all contractors and guess what? They have been laid off before any pilots.
If I had my time again I would not change a thing. Even if that means I am not going to be employed as a pilot for the next 3-10 years.
Edit: I love the boomers who lived through THE BEST possible time in human history to be a pilot and say they would do something else instead. Absolutely deluded that they would earn even close to what they have.
None of my previous colleagues have 12-15 days off a month, 3-5 days off in a row. I work way less and enjoy myself a lot more. The ones who are paid on par with me are all contractors and guess what? They have been laid off before any pilots.
If I had my time again I would not change a thing. Even if that means I am not going to be employed as a pilot for the next 3-10 years.
Edit: I love the boomers who lived through THE BEST possible time in human history to be a pilot and say they would do something else instead. Absolutely deluded that they would earn even close to what they have.
Where else am I going to find 10-15 days off per month whilst avoiding the nightmare of commuting during rush hour and whilst getting plenty of downtime in the week when everything is quieter? I am also far more involved as a Dad than I would be in virtually any other 9-5 job. I look at some of my friends and they barely see their kids at all during the week, leaving for work at the crack of dawn and getting back after bed time.
The job has plenty of stresses and downsides which we are all too familiar with, but time off and time at home isn't one of them.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
As I used to say, way back when. "Dear Lord, save me from ever having to commute in rush-hour, and I'll never complain about doing a walk-round at four in the morning, with de-icing fluid dripping on my hat."
Long, long retired, but I hope you guys all get back in the seats as soon as possible.
Long, long retired, but I hope you guys all get back in the seats as soon as possible.
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Torvald thanks for the question. Given we are talking a 12month to 36 month period (from the issue of the article to 24 months prior) until 911 the likelihood of an increase in accidents is minimal. However as I stated the article raised the concern about safety. It did not state an increase in accidents (hard to find stats on this given the numbers involved around the world and the quick name changes from bankruptcy) . From a logical point of view having someone up front on a small regional as PIC, well most people would like someone with 1000 hours under their belt as opposed to 400hrs. A bit like the surgeon doing his first cut as opposed to one that has successfully done the operation 100 times.
How about moving to cargo?
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Interesting discussion.
I was once on an Aer Lingus flight back in the late 90's on the jumpseat and the Captain enquired why I was leaving a well paid IT career for flying... I told him IT was boring... he then recommended I stick with IT and if he could have had the chance he would have studied IT and not had a career flying.. Unfortunately I ignored him.
Finished my CPL/IR back in the early 2000's and due to personal issues left in early 2006 after a few years on the 737, before flying I saved for my licence with IT work (having a Computer Science Degree) and after I went back to IT, and within a few years my career returned back on track effectively.
There are HUGE advantages to having a steady 9-5 (possibly well remunerated) job, family life stable, time to enjoy yourself and hobbies.. have a life... I mean you only have one!
This may well be a chance for some to reevaluate things and decide a change is long overdue.
Sorry can't offer career advice though.
I was once on an Aer Lingus flight back in the late 90's on the jumpseat and the Captain enquired why I was leaving a well paid IT career for flying... I told him IT was boring... he then recommended I stick with IT and if he could have had the chance he would have studied IT and not had a career flying.. Unfortunately I ignored him.
Finished my CPL/IR back in the early 2000's and due to personal issues left in early 2006 after a few years on the 737, before flying I saved for my licence with IT work (having a Computer Science Degree) and after I went back to IT, and within a few years my career returned back on track effectively.
There are HUGE advantages to having a steady 9-5 (possibly well remunerated) job, family life stable, time to enjoy yourself and hobbies.. have a life... I mean you only have one!
This may well be a chance for some to reevaluate things and decide a change is long overdue.
Sorry can't offer career advice though.
Browsing on a pilots forum....
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I in the camp like 'how can you complain about being a pilot'? If it is THAT bad, why don't you leave that industry? Were you randomly selected and forced to get a license and airline job?
Or you spent crazy amount of time and effort to get one?
Still if you hate that job that much, now it is best time ever to leave this crap behind and get your dream job of desk jockey or bus driver.
That would leave sooo many vacancies for those who dream of your job when this covid thing and the crisis will be over. Who knows, if enough of those bored pilots leave even I, in my 45, will get a chance for an airline interview?
&
Or you spent crazy amount of time and effort to get one?
Still if you hate that job that much, now it is best time ever to leave this crap behind and get your dream job of desk jockey or bus driver.
That would leave sooo many vacancies for those who dream of your job when this covid thing and the crisis will be over. Who knows, if enough of those bored pilots leave even I, in my 45, will get a chance for an airline interview?
&
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There is hardly such thing as a "9-to-5" job. Most 9-5 jobs that pay anything descent are, in reality, more like 7-to-6, or 8-to-9, or "burn out on all-nighters" kind of jobs.
Layman.
Without sounding too caustic my daughter works in the Public Service and yes she does work 9-10 hours a day and also has that flexi day once a fortnight. So long hours no compensation such as flexi days or good super or very hard to be fired?
Without sounding too caustic my daughter works in the Public Service and yes she does work 9-10 hours a day and also has that flexi day once a fortnight. So long hours no compensation such as flexi days or good super or very hard to be fired?
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Silly conversation about public service. The range of employment is enormous and some will work long hours. However, I have had cause to have dealings with several government departments over the last 6 months for the first time ever. I have been frankly amazed and appalled at how the system works. Painfully slow and inefficient, the employees look and sound beaten by their own system. They may well be the last to lose their jobs, but I'd rather take my chances with aviation than live a halve life in the civil service.
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The long term reality of aviation is a string of great years followed by a string of bad years.
For anyone who has not experienced a string of bad years, this downturn has probably come as something of a shock.
Anyone who started in aviation within the last 5 years (perhaps a little longer) had a much easier time finding work than pervious generations, and they enjoyed a lightening fast career progression compared to their predecessors. That is terrific, however I think it has left some vulnerable to the perception that their skills were going to be in demand all around the world throughout their career, and they imagined employers would be begging them to come to work until their dyeing day.
And so now it comes as a bit of shock for them to suddenly discover this industry can spit you out pretty fast, and we’re not the golden boys and girls that we may have imagined ourselves to be.
There is a lot of luck and timing in an aviation career and that is beyond our control.
What I wrote before referring to the good times, still applies now to the bad times, “We don’t create the supply-and-demand employment metric, we can only position ourselves to gain from the climate at the time.”
I won’t be surprised if we soon see people paying for type-rating, and basally working for nothing to get hours. These are the folk you’ll soon be competing against for work, and as much as they will be ridiculed by their peers, depending on your level of experience, you may have to join them or take a job outside aviation for a while.
Aviation will boom again in years to come, and then go bust again. Make hay while the sun shines, but don’t get yourself into a financial position of being dependent on a stable salary at any time during your career. Good luck!
For anyone who has not experienced a string of bad years, this downturn has probably come as something of a shock.
Anyone who started in aviation within the last 5 years (perhaps a little longer) had a much easier time finding work than pervious generations, and they enjoyed a lightening fast career progression compared to their predecessors. That is terrific, however I think it has left some vulnerable to the perception that their skills were going to be in demand all around the world throughout their career, and they imagined employers would be begging them to come to work until their dyeing day.
And so now it comes as a bit of shock for them to suddenly discover this industry can spit you out pretty fast, and we’re not the golden boys and girls that we may have imagined ourselves to be.
There is a lot of luck and timing in an aviation career and that is beyond our control.
What I wrote before referring to the good times, still applies now to the bad times, “We don’t create the supply-and-demand employment metric, we can only position ourselves to gain from the climate at the time.”
I won’t be surprised if we soon see people paying for type-rating, and basally working for nothing to get hours. These are the folk you’ll soon be competing against for work, and as much as they will be ridiculed by their peers, depending on your level of experience, you may have to join them or take a job outside aviation for a while.
Aviation will boom again in years to come, and then go bust again. Make hay while the sun shines, but don’t get yourself into a financial position of being dependent on a stable salary at any time during your career. Good luck!
I'm sure in the UK the government would love for you all to get out into the fields and pick cabbages or lettuce or whatever for minimum wage to support some farmers fortune.
I guess we should all strive to be born into wealthy families.
Or at least marry into one.
As an engineer, I personally enjoy working in this industry, if I had my time again I wouldn't change it.
I've been working in the aviation industry for about the last 25 years and it's always been boom and bust so work wise it's always been a feast or a famine.
I understand that having the security and routine of an office job might suit some people but it certainly would not suit me.
Over the years I've had the opportunity to travel to weird and wonderful places, meet and work with weird and wonderful people and had many unforgettable experiences, all this whilst getting paid to do it.
Yes, sometimes the hours are a bit rubbish and the pay has not always been good but 90% of the time I feel like I'm getting paid to do a hobby.
These days I'm self employed (not a great idea at the moment!), pretty much dictate my own working hours and earn about the same as a captain flying for a low cost airline.
This year might be hard but we'll get over it and in 12 - 24 months time we'll all be complaining there's a shortage of trained, experienced personnel.
I've been working in the aviation industry for about the last 25 years and it's always been boom and bust so work wise it's always been a feast or a famine.
I understand that having the security and routine of an office job might suit some people but it certainly would not suit me.
Over the years I've had the opportunity to travel to weird and wonderful places, meet and work with weird and wonderful people and had many unforgettable experiences, all this whilst getting paid to do it.
Yes, sometimes the hours are a bit rubbish and the pay has not always been good but 90% of the time I feel like I'm getting paid to do a hobby.
These days I'm self employed (not a great idea at the moment!), pretty much dictate my own working hours and earn about the same as a captain flying for a low cost airline.
This year might be hard but we'll get over it and in 12 - 24 months time we'll all be complaining there's a shortage of trained, experienced personnel.
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There is nothing unusual about struggling for a decade to land a decent job flying. And yet, there are always fools who think everything must have been handed to folk on a golden plate if a pilot..I assume they’re either total jerks, or just too lazy to get out there and struggle of 10 years or more, and they’re looking for excuses as to why aviation has not provided them with a big mansion on the hill. ”Oh it’s all because I wasn’t born wealthy.” Boo hoo. Grab a box of tissues and wallow in self pity dude.
There are plenty of commercial pilots who worked hard for years to pay for their training, and who ended up doing well. And if you come from a background like that, you might even appreciate the importance of keeping debt to a minimum, and savings to a maximum.
Took me about 13 years in the aviation industry and until my mid 30s to get a decent wage flying - first flying job paid less than the unemployment benefit. But eventually I landed a decent job and I bought an inexpensive apartment for cash some years after that. I never wanted a bank loan as I’ve seen how work can dry up fast. I’m now out of work again due to this virus, so I’m glad I have no debts and a place to stay. Might have to do something outside of aviation for a while - who knows!
Another thing anyone who earns good money should do, is save up one years worth of living expenses in cash. Impossible to do on a low salary, but everyone who was in a lucrative flying job during the recent aviation boom should have that - although most choose to spend it.
I’ve seen many people buy crazy expensive houses and cars on credit, save zero cash, and then loose their job and end up in a financial mess.
It’s a common theme - earn more, spend more - save no more, and end up no better off than when you earn a minimum salary.
Aviation is boom and bust. If you position yourself with the assumption that the boom is always going to last, then sooner or later you’re going to be in deep financial trouble. Nothing is is secure in life - work within the assumption that things can turn on a dime and you’ll be a little more prepared, or accepting, when that happens. Boom and bust - that is the reality of aviation and if you choose to keep your head in the sand, or pretend people have to be born into wealthy families to do ok in aviation or be financially cautious, then good luck...you’re going to need it!
Last edited by Jerry Springer; 7th Apr 2020 at 02:47.
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