Coronavirus employment low on its way?

[Mrpeewee]

Why?

This your a spoilt brat living on Mum and Dad blame And the self rigorous I work my whole life to get it here story needs to stop.

No body gives a dam how you got here.

its all about where your going

regardless of poor, rich, black or white

[truckflyer]

That might be true, but the attitude of "the1917" is based on how he got where got, if it's not all "given" for free, you might appreciate it more, and not think you are above certain things in life.

[kendrick47247]

What a horrid and toxic post; seems like it’s a regular thing for you, chip on the shoulder much?

As the above poster has said, nobody cares how you got to row 0. No one route makes you any more worthy than another

[truckflyer]

Originally Posted by the1917

Truckflyer, you represent a section of society which seems to be disproportionately large in the LHS of airlines. Your bigoted approach has led you to make assumptions about my background with tunnel visioned certainty.

Despite your ignorant and predominantly incorrect comments I appreciate your response, as you have reinforced my message to the OP that becoming a FO may just expose him, in close quarters, to the type of person many of us actively avoid.

Most of what you have guessed about me is wrong, however it has all handily served to reinforce your confirmation bias. Much easier than self-reflection. It has also created the ideal platform to give yourself a few pats on the back for your flawless background.

The one point you make about me which might be true is that ‘nobody likes me in the flight deck’. Quite possibly the case, albeit very difficult to quantify. So that you don’t feel isolated from this I would like to reassure you that you probably also share the flight deck with people who don’t like you. Yes, even you.

Thanks again for demonstrating this all-too-common bigotry - it may help to save future unfortunate victims from needing to share a confined space with such ego.

I don't go to work to have somebody hold my hand, and don't have need to be cuddled for comfort. Btw you was the one mentioning how awful it was to risk your families hard earned money, and you haven't yet been given the "dream job" - and you discovered only after you completed training, that you had to get up early in the morning to go to work, and that you don't get enough "beauty sleep" before your early starts.

And than you want people here to have some sympathy for you? Seriously, maybe you should have done some research about those things before you started training and spending hundred thousand pound or more. Should have gone modular, and talked to pilots before you started training. Sp you how the job was.

If someone does not like me, that's fine, that's not really important. Do your job, follow SOP's, I have not need to sit and chat about airplanes all day with my colleague, sometimes we might, sometimes we won't. But I will always respect my fellow colleague, and I have not found many who don't show the same respect back. Maybe you been flying in China or Indonesia, most UK companies have worked very hard on CRM, to make sure there is a healthy cockpit gradient.

As feeling that is beneath you to work for companies like Ryanair or Wizz, have in mind most of the guys/girls who end up in companies like BA / Virgin etc, have gone that way, there is no easy path way to the best jobs, you just have to join the line like the rest of us have and do the hard work the same way.

My best advice to you would be following, get a job, any job, keep your head down, keep your personal opinions of how much you hate the job or the company or the Captains for yourself, stay professional and learn from what you see from others, that can be good and bad things, and go with what you believe is the best for you.
And never forget, the aviation world is very small, you get a bad reputation in one place, it will stick with you for a very very long time.

[truckflyer]

Originally Posted by kendrick47247

What a horrid and toxic post; seems like it’s a regular thing for you, chip on the shoulder much?

As the above poster has said, nobody cares how you got to row 0. No one route makes you any more worthy than another

I suggest you give it a read the BS 1917 is writing, obviously he is to good for companies like Wizz and Ryanair, and he feels all Captains are bigots.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Sorath]

Jesus Christ, truckflyer and the1917... set your differences aside.. you guys are filling the forum with your quarrels, not only on this thread.

I would guess you both are supposed to have a shared mindset, help the aviation industry recover ASAP, with what little you can. Which in this case would be your words of support or advice to all. This helps no one, and furthermore, doesn't help yourselves.

[covec]

Damn. Hope not true.

From today’s UK Daily Telegraph.

Quote. Air fares could double when lockdown is lifted, making foreign holidays temporarily unaffordable for many British families.

The Telegraph understands ticket prices are set to surge because once non-essential foreign travel is once again allowed, aircraft carriers are likely to be barred from fully filling planes.

This is in order to ensure passengers keep a safe distance from each other while onboard. Last night an industry source said it is expected that aircraft carriers will be given social distancing guidance, which they will be asked to enforce for passengers.

Unquote.

[Douglas Bahada]

Just like the mayor of London will be able to enforce social distancing on tube trains.

[3Greens]

Originally Posted by truckflyer

You sound like a real nightmare to fly with, what a poor attitude. I guess with that attitude you found yourself another career path.

There’s a saying that every course had at least one If your course didn’t have one, then I’m afraid you were it. I’d say that applies here.

[guy_incognito]

Originally Posted by Douglas Bahada

Just like the mayor of London will be able to enforce social distancing on tube trains.

Once again, aviation is a very convenient target and scapegoat. Social distancing on the aircraft, having stood on a packed tube Piccadilly line train for over an hour, queued to check in your bag, queued to get through security etc. etc. Just another example of being seen to be doing something.

[3RDi]

Be apart of the solution - case for fresh NTR grads.

Without getting into quotas; cargo pilots will be in demand, and you could be fortunate to be hired by companies in other sectors. In any case you can argue who should they hire, TR or NTR. In the many threads it's advised to take the instructing route for now. That in itself suggests those who have the finances will still pursue flight training and will need teaching by someone.

These cargo companies will hire whoever is cheap, fresh NTR cadets. Sure, they need experienced crew as well, point is some cadets and low hours CPL/IR fATPL'ers will still be hired even in these times. The Flight Schools will need to continue to offer incentives to come and train still. Competition will be tough, so focus your energies on these companies and what they want. Write a list, look into what these recruiters/chief pilots want from you and go from there. Those few that get hired will have to show considerable passion.

You can either resign to doom and gloom scenarios or think together brainstorming viable solutions in order to adapt to the current situation. No harm in the latter.

[planesandthings]

No harm in the latter, but might be worth adding my two cents that some new starters for cargo at West Atlantic at EMA with a reasonable amount of previous airline experience have been furloughed with their training paused indefinitely, so things are certainly not good in the UK unless you are in a position to be a survey pilot.

[3RDi]

The immediate future is indeed a time of great change and uncertainty. Companies are assessing risk, cutting costs, postponing training whilst maximising output on a reduced scale, shedding the non-essentials to maintain operational capability under an AOC. My thoughts are projecting ahead to when recovery begins, albeit at a less than desirable pace, when companies are in a position to begin forecasting future training schedules.

[portsharbourflyer]

Be interesting to see how much longer the 7 on 7 off roster lasts at a certain cargo operator mentioned on this thread, it is something that only came in during the recruitment boom to draw people in.
Suspect a few may be in for a shock when the random roster returns.

Again the severity of this downturn has been skewed by the fact the recruitment levels in the last few years were exceptional, and that level of recruitment was never seen in the space of the previous 15 to 17 years. Many fail to realise the last few years were the exception not the norm.

Just a waiting game now.

[truckflyer]

I am not exactly sure why you suddenly believe Cargo pilots will be in demand?
Another important point, Flying Cargo is mostly wide body, very unlikely that they will take an inexperienced FO with no hours to start flying wide-body, It would cost a lot in both additional training and insurance for the Cargo operator. If they flying 330's, it's not a massive upgrade to go from 320 to 330 etc.

Virgin had a massive problem with their own Cadets, that's why they shipped them of to Easyjet, so they could work 3 years with Easyjet, and get loads of landings experience, instead of flying wide-body, where you are lucky if you do more than 5 landings a month.

So what you are saying is absolute rubbish, sorry.

Sure some of the Cargo companies are busy now, but that is because they are the only ones who can fly now. And as for taking new non type rated low hour pilots, while there are literally thousands of unemployed very experienced pilots, does not seem very likely. As whoever is out there and who have lost their jobs, will go for whatever is available and offered to them.

Just to get some figures out there, we have in recent times had Air Berlin, Monarch, FlyBe and Thomas Cook all gone, very likely there will be more casualties such as possibly Norwegian. Norwegian won't go completely, but maybe cut down to 20 - 30 aircraft if they get government help and restructure the company. I personally hope they will survive, but we can't predict anything in the current situation.

Wizz have made loads of pilots redundant, that's 265 pilots who will probably have first dibs in getting back into Wizz, Something similar could happen with Easyjet too, but the number will probably be higher, maybe as much as 500 - 1000, again most likely these will block the way for any new recruitment in to Ezy.

BA and Virgin, have many who was working their notice period with other companies, at least the ones for BA have been retained in the hold pool, and again when BA starts these will be there first to take the jobs. Expect

This is just mentioning some, Lufthansa have also reduced their subsidiary airline, not sure what will happen with all their crews Not sure all will be able to get job with Lufthansa.

So I might sound negative, but the negativity is based on facts of the current situation. And this we have to accept. If you have 5 - 6000 pilots, with 4000 - 5000 hours, all looking for those same jobs, the zero hours guy won't even get a look in as it stands at the moment. At least 2 - 3 years, unless things changes drastically.

[Tommy Gavin]

These cargo companies will hire whoever is cheap

Which basically is everyone, experienced or not

[Chief Willy]

Cargo airlines are enjoying a brief spike in demand only because belly-freight space on airliners have evaporated. The overall cargo market is still in decline, and will be in deep trouble when airliners return to the sky due to a further recession-led demand reduction. They represent a relatively small part of the overall global fleet of aeroplanes and pilot jobs in any case.

As mentioned above by others, there will be thousands of experienced pilots out of work over the next couple of years. Now is the worst time in the history of flight to spend £100k on pilot training. Remember, timing is key to joining this industry and you only get 1 go at it. Save your money for another day.

Please don’t ruin your lives in the blind pursuit of a dream, put your plans on hold and come back in a few years.

[portsharbourflyer]

Between the 2004 until about 2014/2015 the low cost airlines recruitment pattern was either low hour cadet on a SSTR and flight pay only contract (eg: Easyjet Flexicrew), or experienced time on type 737/320 pilots. Frequently low hour cadets were recruited on such schemes in preference to experienced turbo-prop pilots, instructors and even jet experienced (non 737 or 320 rated). Low hour cadets (from one of the big three) paying for the rating on flight pay only deals are extremely cost effective, so as Airlines look to save costs you may find that the recruitment policies begin to mirror that seen prior to the 2015 recruitment boom.

[truckflyer]

Unfortunately I can see many being made redundant, and the recruitment will stop up, as I am guessing Balpa and other unions abroad, will make a deal with airlines to rehire the redundant pilots first before any new recruitment will be allowed.

That's normally what happen in this kind cases.

[Future Rodney King]

so as Airlines look to save costs you may find that the recruitment policies begin to mirror that seen prior to the 2015 recruitment boom.

Im with you on that to a point, sure the TP guys and non 73/bus types will be out in the cold. However I can’t help but think that there will be a glut of experienced right and left seaters with the worlds most useful type ratings ready to hit the ground running. Training depts will be run ragged just getting furloughed crews back on the line, the amount of back logged checks will be horrendous. Pile that in with the recent pain of no revenue I very much doubt there are going to be any seats going for rookies with zero airline experience. Contraction in capacity seems inevitable, these businesses are in preservation mode. Less aircraft, less sectors the industry has been and will be strangled by this. Whatever scraps are left over will be hard fought for by experienced type rated crew.