Is the hiring boom over?
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Less than 15K interests... 8 year loan, aprox 800-900 monthly, "the rest of my life" is a bit of an overstatement .... some people mortgage a house and 2 cars for well over 400k... I find that mad.... I guess I'm investing in my future. A future I want. Plus, I want to get started asap; turning 30 this year. Eventually if all goes right I'll earn more money than being and Engineer in Spain. Risk vs Reward seems OK to me, I guess someone with a bit of more financial apprehension could see it with other eyes.
The only problem I see really is that by the time I'm finished with flight school I don't land a job straight away... but I have my plan B financially speaking, so really it's just a matter of time.. That doesn't take away my that I will be incredibly annoyed with the fact that I'm not flying in an airline or elsewhere by the time I'm done training...it will, certainly, eat me up inside.
But overall, I will not deny that asking for a loan with this level of uncertainty does give me the chills.
The only problem I see really is that by the time I'm finished with flight school I don't land a job straight away... but I have my plan B financially speaking, so really it's just a matter of time.. That doesn't take away my that I will be incredibly annoyed with the fact that I'm not flying in an airline or elsewhere by the time I'm done training...it will, certainly, eat me up inside.
But overall, I will not deny that asking for a loan with this level of uncertainty does give me the chills.
I hope it works fine for you and wont look back at this post and think i should had.... While working as an engineer and paying 900 per month. Which in Spain is nearly your whole monthly salary.
Buenas
ps: have you checked salaries at vueling and volotea when you looked at risk vs reward?
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Did you also included a 30 k loan for your TR and maybe another 10k to keep your licences current? Or do you expect to enter a legacy with all paid from the start ?
I hope it works fine for you and wont look back at this post and think i should had.... While working as an engineer and paying 900 per month. Which in Spain is nearly your whole monthly salary.
Buenas
ps: have you checked salaries at vueling and volotea when you looked at risk vs reward?
I hope it works fine for you and wont look back at this post and think i should had.... While working as an engineer and paying 900 per month. Which in Spain is nearly your whole monthly salary.
Buenas
ps: have you checked salaries at vueling and volotea when you looked at risk vs reward?
I will not take into account TR costs as I will try/hope to find an airline that bonds or partially pays your TR straight from flight school. There it always time to ask for more money later.
Yes I do have money saved to keep my licences current.
I believe you might be a bit mistaken with salaries In Spain... I earn well over 2k so, it might be tight but it's fine.
I have checked the salaries in vueling volotea and they are lower than your average low cost in Europe... but I'm not getting into this to get rich, just to be happy with my job.
Cheers, thanks for your concerns, I don't mind people being realistic (perhaps a little pessimistic). It's good to see all sides of things.
Hasta luego
Join Date: Oct 2019
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The music has well and truly stopped. Anybody thinking of training now is quite frankly certifiable unless money is no object and they don't need a job at the end of it.
There are going to be mass redundancies over the coming years; the consequence of a serious contraction in airline capacity within Europe. I would be surprised if there's any significant airline recruitment over the next five years or possibly longer. Anybody made redundant now, regardless of experience, will have to face up to the fact that there's a strong likelihood that they will never find another flying job.
There are going to be mass redundancies over the coming years; the consequence of a serious contraction in airline capacity within Europe. I would be surprised if there's any significant airline recruitment over the next five years or possibly longer. Anybody made redundant now, regardless of experience, will have to face up to the fact that there's a strong likelihood that they will never find another flying job.
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My advice to you is to look very closely at the expected salaries at airlines you want to end up at. Ideally, those that take low hour pilots. My own forecasts for finance were based on full time salary not in the slightest aware some airlines force RESERVE or part time as you progress in your career. The latter case representing a reasonable drop in salary over winter. Could you afford your loan repayments in that event?
All the best though!
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And as it so should! -- It's a lot of money.
My advice to you is to look very closely at the expected salaries at airlines you want to end up at. Ideally, those that take low hour pilots. My own forecasts for finance were based on full time salary not in the slightest aware some airlines force RESERVE or part time as you progress in your career. The latter case representing a reasonable drop in salary over winter. Could you afford your loan repayments in that event?
All the best though!
My advice to you is to look very closely at the expected salaries at airlines you want to end up at. Ideally, those that take low hour pilots. My own forecasts for finance were based on full time salary not in the slightest aware some airlines force RESERVE or part time as you progress in your career. The latter case representing a reasonable drop in salary over winter. Could you afford your loan repayments in that event?
All the best though!
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Like an idiot i gave my life up and trained just after 2001. thinking the market would pick up. Got an FO job then in 2006. I spent the meantime as a flight instructor and I will say, not fulfilling.
This feels exactly the same situation developing as it was back in the days of no opportunities.
Please everyone , think before you really commit to this life as i had a torrid time trying to find work.
Flying aircraft is great but its not worth massive sacrifices.
This feels exactly the same situation developing as it was back in the days of no opportunities.
Please everyone , think before you really commit to this life as i had a torrid time trying to find work.
Flying aircraft is great but its not worth massive sacrifices.
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I worry this will not be a V shaped recovery at all and it will take a protracted time for confidence to return to aviation. There is already a huge surplus of pilots and with more airlines set to go under this will only get worse. Youd fail the sanity part of the Class 1 medical if you think now is a good time to start training. Walk away, do something else for the next couple of years, dont make a massive financial mistake which you will possibly never recover from.
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For the time being, yes, the hiring boom is over. I would say that coming out of training now is the same as just after 9/11, or in 2009. In the UK alone, there are 600 ex flyBe pilots out of work. But, on the other hand I would say now could be a good time to start training, as in 2-3 years time we could be on the up again. Please note the words could. There are never any guarantees (look at what BA have just done, cancelling signed contracts...), and flight training is always an expensive gamble.
Much like the virus itself, my guess is that it will have devastating effects on the airlines already with serious health problems. Its already happened with flyBe. Only the strongest airlines, with the healthiest balance sheets, cash reserves, and operational flexibility will survive. So sadly, yes, I do think that in the coming weeks there will be more airline bankruptcies, administrations, or liquidations. This will put even more pilots on the market.
But, we have to remain positive. As it stands, stronger airlines are confident that coronavirus is a short-term thing, hence the majority of which implementing unpaid leave, as opposed to redundancies. As a return to normality is expected once the virus has burned out, productivity is hoped to return to normal levels, making redundancies pointless. Providing this continues to happen, and employees are willing to take unpaid leave or go part time in order to alleviate the lack of income due current low numbers of bookings, as well as the implementation of cost cutting by the airlines, they will be able to keep heads above water and preserve jobs. This was highlighted brilliantly in a speech by the Southwest CEO.
If airlines take the hits, be pro-active, get through the next couple of months, and work on making their booking trends positive again, then there IS hope. There will be light at the end of the tunnel. It will be the end of the trough, and the very beginning of a long journey to a peak. Thankfully, most European airlines are doing this already, so I am confident this will not the end of commercial aviation, and come early Summer the bookings will be rising again. And when it gets past a certain level, recruitment will begin again.
Much like the virus itself, my guess is that it will have devastating effects on the airlines already with serious health problems. Its already happened with flyBe. Only the strongest airlines, with the healthiest balance sheets, cash reserves, and operational flexibility will survive. So sadly, yes, I do think that in the coming weeks there will be more airline bankruptcies, administrations, or liquidations. This will put even more pilots on the market.
But, we have to remain positive. As it stands, stronger airlines are confident that coronavirus is a short-term thing, hence the majority of which implementing unpaid leave, as opposed to redundancies. As a return to normality is expected once the virus has burned out, productivity is hoped to return to normal levels, making redundancies pointless. Providing this continues to happen, and employees are willing to take unpaid leave or go part time in order to alleviate the lack of income due current low numbers of bookings, as well as the implementation of cost cutting by the airlines, they will be able to keep heads above water and preserve jobs. This was highlighted brilliantly in a speech by the Southwest CEO.
If airlines take the hits, be pro-active, get through the next couple of months, and work on making their booking trends positive again, then there IS hope. There will be light at the end of the tunnel. It will be the end of the trough, and the very beginning of a long journey to a peak. Thankfully, most European airlines are doing this already, so I am confident this will not the end of commercial aviation, and come early Summer the bookings will be rising again. And when it gets past a certain level, recruitment will begin again.
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I would wait at least 6 months to a year to commit to any self funded training to see which way this is headed.
If this does turn out as the next 9/11 you do not want to be entering the market with a debt to pay in the next few years.
To jump in now would be nothing more than a blind gamble.
If this does turn out as the next 9/11 you do not want to be entering the market with a debt to pay in the next few years.
To jump in now would be nothing more than a blind gamble.
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It's incredibly optimistic to think that this is "the next 9/11". The impact on aviation is far, far worse than that, and it's only going to get much, much worse.
Without government intervention, it's hard to see how any airline in Europe is going to survive this.
Without government intervention, it's hard to see how any airline in Europe is going to survive this.
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It's incredibly optimistic to think that this is "the next 9/11". The impact on aviation is far, far worse than that, and it's only going to get much, much worse.
Without government intervention, it's hard to see how any airline in Europe is going to survive this.
Without government intervention, it's hard to see how any airline in Europe is going to survive this.
Last edited by SkyTeam95; 13th Mar 2020 at 09:38.
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Not the time to be saddling yourself (& family?) with large scale debt.
Save up. Wait. There are already a large number of qualified pilots out of work in the UK: Monarch. Thomas Cook. Flybe.
Save up. Wait. There are already a large number of qualified pilots out of work in the UK: Monarch. Thomas Cook. Flybe.
Having read internal briefings and e-mails written by people not given to be hysterical, and seeing some of our aircraft starting to be parked up and with the advantage of having seen what happened during GW 1 and 9/11 I’d say the that there are vanishingly few airlines, if any, where everything could be back to normal in two months......
There’s been a lot of good advice in previous posts that I can heartily second : now is not the time to leap into an integrated course, it is the time for keeping other income streams available and not committing yourself or nearest and dearest to shouldering debt funding a course
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The only people that benefited in the aviation boom were flight schools. Nobody else
They sell an amazing story to vulnerable new pilots who are willing to put their life savings at stake or even more.
100K to be a pilot.
It reminds me of the day I attended my first pilots seminar with PTC ( pilot training college) a company that promised doom and gloom, which soon after went bust. Glad I went modular then.
40 K in total, and still had a capital left in my aircraft share!
Who ever has a job now, either lost it, or is waiting to be made redundant or even worse let go.
It the next thing after 9/11.
Keep your money guys, and dont believe all the insta fake people that pretend its a heaven of a job! You only see one side of a story.
But the boom is over thats for sure. And there will be a very long road ahead, especially with tons of qualified pilots currently on the market. So think twice
They sell an amazing story to vulnerable new pilots who are willing to put their life savings at stake or even more.
100K to be a pilot.
It reminds me of the day I attended my first pilots seminar with PTC ( pilot training college) a company that promised doom and gloom, which soon after went bust. Glad I went modular then.
40 K in total, and still had a capital left in my aircraft share!
Who ever has a job now, either lost it, or is waiting to be made redundant or even worse let go.
It the next thing after 9/11.
Keep your money guys, and dont believe all the insta fake people that pretend its a heaven of a job! You only see one side of a story.
But the boom is over thats for sure. And there will be a very long road ahead, especially with tons of qualified pilots currently on the market. So think twice
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What Citation said.
I have heard: BA cancelling courses for new people and offering (soon to be compulsory) unpaid leave, Ryanair cancelling courses, resignations not being allowed to be rescinded, the general rumours about Norwegian and others, Flybe has put 600 pilots on the market, global slowdown that may cause global recession.
Not the time to train!!!!
Oh, the 'it will pass in a few months'. I applaud the optimism but this will be years.
I have heard: BA cancelling courses for new people and offering (soon to be compulsory) unpaid leave, Ryanair cancelling courses, resignations not being allowed to be rescinded, the general rumours about Norwegian and others, Flybe has put 600 pilots on the market, global slowdown that may cause global recession.
Not the time to train!!!!
Oh, the 'it will pass in a few months'. I applaud the optimism but this will be years.
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Airlines will now lay staff off, park airplanes and reduce salaries (which will never increase to their former levels). Aviation is getting increasingly chaotic. After cv19, there’ll be something else.
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https://www.eurocockpit.be/news/change-gonna-come
Recommended reading by all.
Recommended reading by all.
The airline industry that emerges from this crisis, will not look like the one that went into it. A change is indeed gonna come. Grit your teeth and hang onto your hats.
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Re airliners being clean: yes, but it’s the airport. The lifts. Escalator handrails. Queues. Cafes. Cashpoints. Taxis. Trains. People everywhere, from everywhere. The passenger behind sneezing over the back of your head.
And then there’s Climate Change...
The UK market hiring boom is well and truly dead for what...5 years? 10 years? How long will it take for those made redundant & lucky enough to be picked up by say, Loganair to work through their airline careers?
Last edited by covec; 14th Mar 2020 at 22:32.