CAE easyJet MPL 2020
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As a guess, perhaps he means that FTOs with mainly contractor TKIs are excessively penny pinching, profit obsessed, greedy companies who prioritise revenue above customer service and training output standards?
Educated Hillbilly
Again these posts just show how poor this forum is at objective discussion.
From my viewpoint comparing the number of contract vs salaried staff for a school seems to be a pointless metric to consider. Firstly most of the schools (CAE and FTE being the main two) that do MPL are the same schools that provide the Integrated fATPL courses.
The integrated schools do tend to be the only schools that offer full time salaried instructor positions.
Most schools that provide modular training only (not the subject of the post concerning this), will tend to have flight pay only or small retainer with flight pay contracts for the "line" instructors, this is a generalisation so it wont hold for all cases. If you look at adverts in the last 18 months (pre Covid) then all both L3 and CAE were all offering salaried positions with the usual range of benefits for even the single engine instructors (which traditionally only paid flight pay per hour), so all the large schools have recognised the need to pay proper salaries to attract and retain instructors.
The other point to consider is the advanced stage of the MPL requires the instructors (MPL K2 previoulsy J2) to have 1500 hours of multi crew experience, so the instructors conducing this phase of the training are either retired Airline Pilots or current Airline Pilots working part time; both of those groups will tend therefore to be working on "freelance" contract arrangements.
So by default any school running the MPL scheme will have a number of contractors.
If you are concerned about selecting a school on the basis of which school offers the best terms and conditions for the instructors then you should all opt to train at CAE and L3 and not consider modular.
Another point is all MPL courses have a rigid selection criteria, it is only a small percentage of applicants that get accepted, so if you are offered a place on a MPL course you won't really have a choice at where you do the MPL course. The only choice you have as a MPL is to accept or not accept the place on the course.
Broadlands, will be happy to hear an explanation of your rationale?
From my viewpoint comparing the number of contract vs salaried staff for a school seems to be a pointless metric to consider. Firstly most of the schools (CAE and FTE being the main two) that do MPL are the same schools that provide the Integrated fATPL courses.
The integrated schools do tend to be the only schools that offer full time salaried instructor positions.
Most schools that provide modular training only (not the subject of the post concerning this), will tend to have flight pay only or small retainer with flight pay contracts for the "line" instructors, this is a generalisation so it wont hold for all cases. If you look at adverts in the last 18 months (pre Covid) then all both L3 and CAE were all offering salaried positions with the usual range of benefits for even the single engine instructors (which traditionally only paid flight pay per hour), so all the large schools have recognised the need to pay proper salaries to attract and retain instructors.
The other point to consider is the advanced stage of the MPL requires the instructors (MPL K2 previoulsy J2) to have 1500 hours of multi crew experience, so the instructors conducing this phase of the training are either retired Airline Pilots or current Airline Pilots working part time; both of those groups will tend therefore to be working on "freelance" contract arrangements.
So by default any school running the MPL scheme will have a number of contractors.
If you are concerned about selecting a school on the basis of which school offers the best terms and conditions for the instructors then you should all opt to train at CAE and L3 and not consider modular.
Another point is all MPL courses have a rigid selection criteria, it is only a small percentage of applicants that get accepted, so if you are offered a place on a MPL course you won't really have a choice at where you do the MPL course. The only choice you have as a MPL is to accept or not accept the place on the course.
Broadlands, will be happy to hear an explanation of your rationale?
Last edited by portsharbourflyer; 10th May 2020 at 10:11.
de minimus non curat lex
,,,,,,,,,all MPL courses have a rigid selection criteria, it is only a small percentage of applicants that get accepted, so if you are offered a place on a MPL course you won't really have a choice at where you do the MPL course. The only choice you have as a MPL is to accept or not accept the place on the course..........
Airlines will only consider it again when fully back on an even keel, and prospective junior birdmen will be somewhat wary given the fact that how these current MPL trainees are likely to be even worse off than those on the (f)ATPL route. The contract doesn’t to date provided any safeguards should training cease. In FLYBE case this would have been difficult as they ceased trading and the contract would become null and void.
MPL: no licence issued until base training successfully completed.
Without a licence, there is additional training due to a shortfall in light aircraft flying/tests for licence issue ~ CPL/IR route.
There is no doubt that the MPL route prepares the junior birdman far better for the RHS: “purpose built”
That is not to say the MCC/APS doesn’t achieve a quality product as well: “generically built”
Final thought: CAVEAT EMPTOR before entering any contractual agreement
Last edited by parkfell; 10th May 2020 at 14:26. Reason: Final sentence ~ déjà vu
Educated Hillbilly
Parkfell, agree on all your points there. There is just one correction to your post, the MPL to conventional CPL/IR conversion as detailed in the easy access rules is based on the MPL being fully issued.
At the moment the EASA easy access rules do not clearly detail how an incomplete MPL is converted to a conventional CPL IR. I assume the regulators will permit some degree of cross credit for training completed to date, and realistically the extra training for someone with an issued MPL and one that is unfinished but reached at least the intermediate phase is probably about the same. The difference is with an issued MPL the conversion route is laid down in the regulations but for those that are incomplete I would assume (note I say assume because this is just my judgement based on the content of the course, which may not be correct) additional exemptions and approvals would need to be sought from the NAA to agree the conversions process.
Since writing the post this morning there has been news in the public to domain to say MPL courses are getting cancelled.
At the moment the EASA easy access rules do not clearly detail how an incomplete MPL is converted to a conventional CPL IR. I assume the regulators will permit some degree of cross credit for training completed to date, and realistically the extra training for someone with an issued MPL and one that is unfinished but reached at least the intermediate phase is probably about the same. The difference is with an issued MPL the conversion route is laid down in the regulations but for those that are incomplete I would assume (note I say assume because this is just my judgement based on the content of the course, which may not be correct) additional exemptions and approvals would need to be sought from the NAA to agree the conversions process.
Since writing the post this morning there has been news in the public to domain to say MPL courses are getting cancelled.
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de minimus non curat lex
It is hard to image that any sensible NAA would not agree to a large measure of common sense, take a very understanding pragmatic view, and simply require the shortfall to be completed to a satisfactory standard for these very unfortunate trainees.
The construction of the MPL syllabus, with I hope natural ‘break points’ smooth the whole process.
Let us hope that the “Campaign Against Aviation” is but a distant memory.
The construction of the MPL syllabus, with I hope natural ‘break points’ smooth the whole process.
Let us hope that the “Campaign Against Aviation” is but a distant memory.
de minimus non curat lex
In an extremely unfortunate position, as base training requires 12 T/O & landings which is undoubtedly expensive.
The previous posts today discusses other possible options which might emerge.
The previous posts today discusses other possible options which might emerge.
Educated Hillbilly
Larki,
Remember this is an internet forum, so please do note what I write in my post is my interpretation based on what I know about the MPL training system and the easy access rules, further it is my interpretation of them. So your best course of action is to contact the ATO concerned (assume it would be CAE) to clarify what the options are.
Anyway the link to the Easy Access rules, you will see there are sections discussing MPL to CPL/IR, PAge 823 and 824.
https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/def...or_Aircrew.pdf
Remember this is an internet forum, so please do note what I write in my post is my interpretation based on what I know about the MPL training system and the easy access rules, further it is my interpretation of them. So your best course of action is to contact the ATO concerned (assume it would be CAE) to clarify what the options are.
Anyway the link to the Easy Access rules, you will see there are sections discussing MPL to CPL/IR, PAge 823 and 824.
https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/def...or_Aircrew.pdf
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Educated Hillbilly
Warrenflight, I tried to reply to your PM but it wouldn't let me send, it gave a mailbox is full message.
Planesandthings, that is indeed the article I am referring to. While it doesn't mention MPL directly , I would assume that an Easyjet backed course is an MPL course.
There is a possibility that it could have been a tagged integrated that it is referring to, but as far as I know all recent Easyjet "backed" courses are MPL courses.
Planesandthings, that is indeed the article I am referring to. While it doesn't mention MPL directly , I would assume that an Easyjet backed course is an MPL course.
There is a possibility that it could have been a tagged integrated that it is referring to, but as far as I know all recent Easyjet "backed" courses are MPL courses.
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Has anything else been said about the situation for MPL cadets? I know it is not looking great at the moment (With up to 30% of jobs to be lost in the airline). I think this thread has been dead for a couple of weeks now and I would find it interesting if anyone else could shed some light on the situation from either of the two schools offering the MPL.
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- Programme is closed indefinitely to new entrants.
- Those who completed their training at the end of MPL have been put into hold pool with no certainty of job ever coming available, that includes those who started their TR pre-covid.
- UK training is not fully up and running for most L3/CAE cadets in the pipeline so training is paused indefinitely other than theoretical knowledge via webinar (all in addition to the major non covid delays), there has been talk that severance clauses in the training contract might be used to end EasyJet's involvement with those at an early stage of MPL training and revert them on whitetail ATPL courses. Those at a later stage will likely follow point two and end up in a holding pool for an undetermined time unless another Airbus operator can pick them up. Those I've spoken to in the pools are not expecting jobs before 2022 and are seeking employment (mostly outside aviation) elsewhere to bridge the financial shortfalls.
All in all, the worst has not yet come. The training bills will still need paying with no income, I'd go as far to say there hasn't been a worse time in the industries' history to finish training to be a pilot, at least for then short-medium term.
de minimus non curat lex
Unfortunately once the airline calls STOP, the MPL course prior to licence issue is simply dead in the water.
The options are either to stop training completely, and forgot being a professional pilot;
or ‘convert’/‘transfer’ to the (f)ATPL route.
There are some natural break points but not always. Possible duplication & additional costs unfortunately.
Any change of course will require specific agreement for you, between the school (ATO) and the regulator as to what is exactly required to ‘bridge the gap’ for CPL/IR issue; shortfall in hours & requirements.
The ATO is best place to advise you. Get it in writing.
The options are either to stop training completely, and forgot being a professional pilot;
or ‘convert’/‘transfer’ to the (f)ATPL route.
There are some natural break points but not always. Possible duplication & additional costs unfortunately.
Any change of course will require specific agreement for you, between the school (ATO) and the regulator as to what is exactly required to ‘bridge the gap’ for CPL/IR issue; shortfall in hours & requirements.
The ATO is best place to advise you. Get it in writing.
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I would have thought that you would firstly need to get accepted on Airlines scheme, and take the intermediate and advanced parts of the training again.
I have no doubt, it is not as easy as it seems. If I was you, HEJT2015, I would contact the authority you obtained your License with.
It appears you have an Airbus rating, judging by your past comments on here, so I would take a guess that you're looking at a 737 rating, I cannot seem to imagine there being many jobs on 737's in the next few years for a low hour pilot.
Best of luck
I have no doubt, it is not as easy as it seems. If I was you, HEJT2015, I would contact the authority you obtained your License with.
It appears you have an Airbus rating, judging by your past comments on here, so I would take a guess that you're looking at a 737 rating, I cannot seem to imagine there being many jobs on 737's in the next few years for a low hour pilot.
Best of luck
de minimus non curat lex
Once you have been issued with the MPL, you have a licence to operate in the RHS multi crew aircraft.
Unlike a CPL/IR holder, you are restricted to multi crew flying as a professional pilot, unless / until additional light aircraft training takes place. This would also be true when a MPL holder upgrades to ATPL.
Depending upon who conducted the various MPL progress tests in the SE phase, you have might to eligible for a PPL issue. The examiner would need to be approved to conduct PPL tests as well. At FTEJEREZ, the flying syllabus up to what would have been PT 1, when you went through basic training, was common for all professional courses. The MPL SE/ME divergence occurred after this point. Probably an academic point as the intention was to spend the next 40 years airline flying. Although it was not uncommon for customers to have acquired a PPL prior to the MPL course.
If you change operator and MP type, you are in the same position as a CPL/IR. Pass the new type rating course (MPL phase 4 as was) and get it issued on the licence. Line training will then follow.
Unlike a CPL/IR holder, you are restricted to multi crew flying as a professional pilot, unless / until additional light aircraft training takes place. This would also be true when a MPL holder upgrades to ATPL.
Depending upon who conducted the various MPL progress tests in the SE phase, you have might to eligible for a PPL issue. The examiner would need to be approved to conduct PPL tests as well. At FTEJEREZ, the flying syllabus up to what would have been PT 1, when you went through basic training, was common for all professional courses. The MPL SE/ME divergence occurred after this point. Probably an academic point as the intention was to spend the next 40 years airline flying. Although it was not uncommon for customers to have acquired a PPL prior to the MPL course.
If you change operator and MP type, you are in the same position as a CPL/IR. Pass the new type rating course (MPL phase 4 as was) and get it issued on the licence. Line training will then follow.
Last edited by parkfell; 12th Jun 2020 at 06:08. Reason: expansion PPL aspect
Educated Hillbilly
Just to add, while it is not just having a Progress Test being done by an appropriate examiner but the core phase also needs to cover the all the content as a PPL; as all MPL courses are different then the content of the core phase varies , however the common shortfall is on solo time and the 150 NM cross country qualifier. So in most cases the "gap" in training content needs to be filled before the PPL/SEP skills test can be conducted.
