CAE easyJet MPL 2020
TerryCherry
Not quite correct. Everyone was asked to volunteer to take either 75% or 50% part time. Nearly every pilot volunteered and this has resulted in no compulsory redundancies, 94% of captains and first officers volunteered to take part time to save their colleages jobs. There is no new contract and anyone who wanted to could stay 100% on their normal salary. Second officers with less than 500hrs were not allowed to take the 50% option (despite most requesting it) because 2 weeks on 2 weeks off in the winter would mean that they would regularly go 14 days or more without flying which was the recency limit.
Any offer to take part time was voluntary and once offered, we weren't required to sign our new contracts. Not that it will happen for years (2024 I imagine at the earliest), any new hire cadet would be hired on the usual 46k contract. Word of warning, every current employee must be offered 100% again before any new hiring will take place.
We've been told that at least over the next year that CR is very unlikely because we've already pushed crew numbers very low. If we get rid of more people we would stand no chance of being able to take advantage of a recovery next year. We were also told that if next summer isn't a good year revenue wise, the airline could conceivably not make it beyond 2021 anyway meaning that any CR is probably a waste of time.
Not quite correct. Everyone was asked to volunteer to take either 75% or 50% part time. Nearly every pilot volunteered and this has resulted in no compulsory redundancies, 94% of captains and first officers volunteered to take part time to save their colleages jobs. There is no new contract and anyone who wanted to could stay 100% on their normal salary. Second officers with less than 500hrs were not allowed to take the 50% option (despite most requesting it) because 2 weeks on 2 weeks off in the winter would mean that they would regularly go 14 days or more without flying which was the recency limit.
Any offer to take part time was voluntary and once offered, we weren't required to sign our new contracts. Not that it will happen for years (2024 I imagine at the earliest), any new hire cadet would be hired on the usual 46k contract. Word of warning, every current employee must be offered 100% again before any new hiring will take place.
We've been told that at least over the next year that CR is very unlikely because we've already pushed crew numbers very low. If we get rid of more people we would stand no chance of being able to take advantage of a recovery next year. We were also told that if next summer isn't a good year revenue wise, the airline could conceivably not make it beyond 2021 anyway meaning that any CR is probably a waste of time.
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds like a very good example of how to deal with the situation. About as fair as it can be under the circumstances. And certainly lightyears ahead of some other places which could have done the same, but opted for a lot of dead bodies in the basement instead.
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How can 75pc and 50pc and some full time work when the number of flights is at best 50pc of usual? Not sure it quite adds up. Also 23k wages is surely not sustainable on top of loan repayments.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wandsworth
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With EZYs announcement today of no CRs, a few MPL Cadets that have been cut are seemingly trying to get the message out on social media about the fact that they have been shafted with no job and are now faced with potentially another 40k to upgrade to ATPL or will lose £60k if they end training.
Clearly some are pointing at something that might be contested here.
Surely someone on here must know more, can anyone actually tell me if there was anything in the training contracts about job offers being guaranteed and if this could even be remotely challenged. Or are these cadets and their parents just in complete denial about the contracts they've signed from the smooth salesmen?
Clearly some are pointing at something that might be contested here.
Surely someone on here must know more, can anyone actually tell me if there was anything in the training contracts about job offers being guaranteed and if this could even be remotely challenged. Or are these cadets and their parents just in complete denial about the contracts they've signed from the smooth salesmen?
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wandsworth
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exactly what I thought then, denial and maybe a slight bit of naivety, of course EZY would make sure their contracts were watertight.
Hindsight is great but never again should people skim over such huge contractual risks, the smooth talking salesmen quickly disappear and change stories when the going gets rough, this is the hardest of lessons for those involved.
Hindsight is great but never again should people skim over such huge contractual risks, the smooth talking salesmen quickly disappear and change stories when the going gets rough, this is the hardest of lessons for those involved.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
planesandthings,
If the offer is anything like one I have seen in the past, the airline agreements say something like...
"Nothing in this agreement construes a relationship of employee and employer until such a time the conditions above have been met and you are offered a permanent employment contract".
I don't believe they directly hint at it being possible for it to be withdrawn, but reading between the lines the above sentence if their get out / force majeure.
If the offer is anything like one I have seen in the past, the airline agreements say something like...
"Nothing in this agreement construes a relationship of employee and employer until such a time the conditions above have been met and you are offered a permanent employment contract".
I don't believe they directly hint at it being possible for it to be withdrawn, but reading between the lines the above sentence if their get out / force majeure.
planesandthings
Whilst CAE are upto their own thing (Silver Lining MPL or whatever BS they've decided to call it), you are perhaps mistaken. The L3 guys that got "their final shafting" as described in another thread and on social media actually has nothing to do with easyJet or CAE. easyJet haven't taken cadets from L3 for at least a year and the MPL program there wound up before that. The Generation easyJet program only had links with CAE as far as I know.
As bad as L3s shafting is, that is sadly the nature of the MPL, although anyone in that situation should shop around and get that training elsewhere at a far cheaper cost. I can't be bothered to go through EASA-FCL but I imagine they'd need to do quite a bit of real flying to turn their incomplete(or complete) MPL into an EASA fATPL (CPL if you want to split hairs). They'd need to learn to fly a real multi-engine piston aircraft and then do a CPL on it (must be 15hrs or more I'd imagine in a DA42/Seneca etc) and then do the IR on it which is probably the tricky part as IFR in a multi-engine piston is COMPLETELY different (read harder) to an IR on the A320. I'd imagine a rock bottom conversion would cost £25-30k to go from an MPL to a CPL/ME/IR of which you'd ADDITIONALLY have to attach a type rating to once you find an airline to recruit you (2024 at the earliest. Frankly they're not going to be sponsoring anyone before that). If the outcome of the £65k extra that L3 asked for was a conversion to a CPL/ME/IR and then a standard A320 type rating, sadly, almost reasonably priced given the current market rate; if the entire A320 phase needed to be redone by way of a full type rating - depends on what EASA-FCL says, perhaps there is room to use some of the previous hours, but I imagine this is a novel situation that needs regulatory investigation.
There is and was never any guarantee that doing an MPL would result in a permenant position with easyJet and despite the marketing, anyone that properly read the contract would know that was never the case. Anyone was deluded into thinking this was a sure thing. However, I apprecieate that under normal times, a cadet joining the MPL could have expected to be employed by easyJet about 18 months after day one of groundschool. This is not the case any more and any future applicants would be foolhardy to imagine so, or sell that impression to their parents.
Obviously I won't share the specific details in the contracts here as that is unfair on both parties. It roughly says that they will intend, but explicitly says they can't guarantee any placement with easyJet at the end of training. They made it clear they couldn't guarantee placement for precisely the scenario we find ourselves in. As brutal as this is, if they didn't have that clause, then shame on easyJet.
For any training/sponsorship/agreement, read the contract and expect/account (financially) for the worst. If that isn't palatable or possible, don't sign it!
Whilst CAE are upto their own thing (Silver Lining MPL or whatever BS they've decided to call it), you are perhaps mistaken. The L3 guys that got "their final shafting" as described in another thread and on social media actually has nothing to do with easyJet or CAE. easyJet haven't taken cadets from L3 for at least a year and the MPL program there wound up before that. The Generation easyJet program only had links with CAE as far as I know.
As bad as L3s shafting is, that is sadly the nature of the MPL, although anyone in that situation should shop around and get that training elsewhere at a far cheaper cost. I can't be bothered to go through EASA-FCL but I imagine they'd need to do quite a bit of real flying to turn their incomplete(or complete) MPL into an EASA fATPL (CPL if you want to split hairs). They'd need to learn to fly a real multi-engine piston aircraft and then do a CPL on it (must be 15hrs or more I'd imagine in a DA42/Seneca etc) and then do the IR on it which is probably the tricky part as IFR in a multi-engine piston is COMPLETELY different (read harder) to an IR on the A320. I'd imagine a rock bottom conversion would cost £25-30k to go from an MPL to a CPL/ME/IR of which you'd ADDITIONALLY have to attach a type rating to once you find an airline to recruit you (2024 at the earliest. Frankly they're not going to be sponsoring anyone before that). If the outcome of the £65k extra that L3 asked for was a conversion to a CPL/ME/IR and then a standard A320 type rating, sadly, almost reasonably priced given the current market rate; if the entire A320 phase needed to be redone by way of a full type rating - depends on what EASA-FCL says, perhaps there is room to use some of the previous hours, but I imagine this is a novel situation that needs regulatory investigation.
There is and was never any guarantee that doing an MPL would result in a permenant position with easyJet and despite the marketing, anyone that properly read the contract would know that was never the case. Anyone was deluded into thinking this was a sure thing. However, I apprecieate that under normal times, a cadet joining the MPL could have expected to be employed by easyJet about 18 months after day one of groundschool. This is not the case any more and any future applicants would be foolhardy to imagine so, or sell that impression to their parents.
Obviously I won't share the specific details in the contracts here as that is unfair on both parties. It roughly says that they will intend, but explicitly says they can't guarantee any placement with easyJet at the end of training. They made it clear they couldn't guarantee placement for precisely the scenario we find ourselves in. As brutal as this is, if they didn't have that clause, then shame on easyJet.
For any training/sponsorship/agreement, read the contract and expect/account (financially) for the worst. If that isn't palatable or possible, don't sign it!
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wandsworth
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
planesandthings
Whilst CAE are upto their own thing (Silver Lining MPL or whatever BS they've decided to call it), you are perhaps mistaken. The L3 guys that got "their final shafting" as described in another thread and on social media actually has nothing to do with easyJet or CAE. easyJet haven't taken cadets from L3 for at least a year and the MPL program there wound up before that. The Generation easyJet program only had links with CAE as far as I know.
Whilst CAE are upto their own thing (Silver Lining MPL or whatever BS they've decided to call it), you are perhaps mistaken. The L3 guys that got "their final shafting" as described in another thread and on social media actually has nothing to do with easyJet or CAE. easyJet haven't taken cadets from L3 for at least a year and the MPL program there wound up before that. The Generation easyJet program only had links with CAE as far as I know.
I concur with the rest of your comments but factually that is the case.
