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Flybe FO Pay

Old 13th Jan 2020, 06:56
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Sadly L3 will not be able to offer you any guarantees, your ATPL written exam results and any flying training that you do in an aircraft can count towards CPL and MEIR qualification if Flybe collapse and you can transfer over to CPL and MEIR training but a Flybe MPL is useless anywhere other than Flybe. Obviously if Flybe collapse and you transfer over to CPL training you will have no airline place on completion of the course and hundreds of experienced and rated Flybe pilots will be out there looking for work ahead of you.



Unfortunately the public are now aware of Flybe’s troubles so will be steering clear of the company regardless of how rescue talks go, they will book flights with other more financially stable airlines which will add to Flybe’s woes. If you’re looking to start a Flybe MPL now then I would be extremely surprised if Flybe is still around when you qualify.



Please consider your next move extremely seriously as your parents house is up for grabs if you cannot pay back the loan and do not wear ‘training blinkers.’ L3 will not care about your parents property one little bit and will make all sorts of non-promises that will not commit them to anything to get your money.



I genuinely do not envy your position and I wish you well in whatever you decide but please be objective and include your parents in the decision making process.




Last edited by magicmick; 13th Jan 2020 at 08:50.
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Old 13th Jan 2020, 08:32
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I would caution against doing an MPL course in general,but especially with a financially unstable airline like FlyBE. You have very limited options if you need to change jobs with less than 1,500 hours, and even less still if you struggle with training.
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Old 13th Jan 2020, 12:18
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Welp now Flybe looks like its going under guess it only leaves me with RYR! Does anyone have any insight as to approximately how much a YR1 FO based at Stansted could earn after basic+flight pay etc?
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Old 13th Jan 2020, 14:38
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Hello "thelowflyer".

I finished training with L3 last year and the delays are pouring. Furthermore with the state of Flybe nowadays I woulnd`t recommend no one to start an MPL Training with them/L3.
What I advise you is to go to spain/italy and see some schools that are getting their students trained really fast. Just as an example I had over 30 colleagues that changed school and finished faster than me whilst their training cost was half of what we were paying. This is just my 2 cents but your next moves will be delicate and important. Choose wisely.

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Old 13th Jan 2020, 14:48
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Originally Posted by Honeyman5123
Hello "thelowflyer".

I finished training with L3 last year and the delays are pouring. Furthermore with the state of Flybe nowadays I woulnd`t recommend no one to start an MPL Training with them/L3.
What I advise you is to go to spain/italy and see some schools that are getting their students trained really fast. Just as an example I had over 30 colleagues that changed school and finished faster than me whilst their training cost was half of what we were paying. This is just my 2 cents but your next moves will be delicate and important. Choose wisely.
I am genuinely moving towards removing my application if I'm honest but out of interest - when you say delays, do these generally apply to the MPL/airline cadets too? I was under the impression (perhaps wrongly) that generally the MPL students take priority to keep the airlines happy, whilst the ATPL students may take the hit when it comes to delays. Also, when you say delay, how long do you mean? If there were delays of say 3/4 weeks between stages I could live with that but if it's more than that and takes the training over 2 years, I would definitely not be keen. Also, I take your point about not recommending an MPL with flybe's situation - I was also of that opinion until I found out they had been bought over by connect airways and rebranding, to me that meant they were moving forward and had financial stability but I guess that is not the case :/
Cheers & congrats on finishing the course!
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Old 13th Jan 2020, 16:29
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thelowflyer - did you call L3 today?

if so, I’d be interested to see what chat they gave you...
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Old 13th Jan 2020, 16:44
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Originally Posted by LanceHudson
thelowflyer - did you call L3 today?

if so, I’d be interested to see what chat they gave you...
I did, they know no more than what has been reported (as expected). The general vibe I got is that they wish to proceed with the process as normal until any more news is heard on the contrary, however I won't be giving them any cash until I know what the state of play is. I also asked what would happen should they recover the situation at the moment but go bust prior to completion of the MPL. Wasn't given a firm answer but they are going to find out, the presumption being that I would be transferred onto the ATPL wings programme. At the end of the day they want to be paid so they aren't going to discourage people from continuing if they can avoid it.
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Old 13th Jan 2020, 19:01
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Originally Posted by thelowflyer
I am genuinely moving towards removing my application if I'm honest but out of interest - when you say delays, do these generally apply to the MPL/airline cadets too? I was under the impression (perhaps wrongly) that generally the MPL students take priority to keep the airlines happy, whilst the ATPL students may take the hit when it comes to delays. Also, when you say delay, how long do you mean? If there were delays of say 3/4 weeks between stages I could live with that but if it's more than that and takes the training over 2 years, I would definitely not be keen. Also, I take your point about not recommending an MPL with flybe's situation - I was also of that opinion until I found out they had been bought over by connect airways and rebranding, to me that meant they were moving forward and had financial stability but I guess that is not the case :/
Cheers & congrats on finishing the course!
Well I have no information regarding MPL`s but regarding CPL`s I waited 6 months for MEP/IR and 1 month for IR. It was obnoxious and I was paying rent every month.
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Old 13th Jan 2020, 19:11
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Originally Posted by BombasticAce
Welp now Flybe looks like its going under guess it only leaves me with RYR! Does anyone have any insight as to approximately how much a YR1 FO based at Stansted could earn after basic+flight pay etc?
You would be very lucky to get STN base, more likely when Ryanair start recruitment again, it will be for LaudaMotion, Buzz and Malta Air. I don't have the details, but you would be incredibly lucky to get a UK base. There will be a lot of people in front of you.
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Old 13th Jan 2020, 19:56
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Originally Posted by Honeyman5123
Well I have no information regarding MPL`s but regarding CPL`s I waited 6 months for MEP/IR and 1 month for IR. It was obnoxious and I was paying rent every month.
that is pretty brutal! :o
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 14:51
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Originally Posted by Antonio Montana
You would be very lucky to get STN base, more likely when Ryanair start recruitment again, it will be for LaudaMotion, Buzz and Malta Air. I don't have the details, but you would be incredibly lucky to get a UK base. There will be a lot of people in front of you.
That's it Antonio - they are moving towards that now. Driving T's and C's down.

As for Ryanair never going bust - if I had a Euro for every time I got that particular reply from my FO I would be very rich. Never say never. The guys at Shearson Lehman bank thought that on their last Friday at work! All it takes is for the run of good luck to end for ANY airline and it's goodnight Vienna (or anywhere else for that matter).
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Old 20th Jan 2020, 06:53
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I though that I might chip in a note of caution regarding L3 in particular and MPL courses in general, I should point out that I have never received any training from L3 and I have absolutely no axe to grind with L3 or any L3 employee.



My son is a member of the RAF section of the Combined Cadet Force at his school, recently he was part of a group that went to visit an Air Experience Flight unit hoping to get some training flights in Grob Tutors. Sadly the weather was too bad to fly, but being a social type and an aviation geek he had a wander around the unit and talked to some of the people working there. One person he spoke to is going through his CPL training with a local modular school. He has three other students going through CPL training with him all of whom started training with L3 self sponsored but quit due to training delays, he mentioned that they were getting 3 or 4 hours training in 3 months.



More disturbingly he mentioned one of their friends at L3 who was on the Easyjet MPL course, he completed the course after incurring a six figure debt and contacted Easyjet to get his start date and was told that he was no longer required. The MPL is taught using destination airline procedures throughout and is next to useless in any airline other than the intended destination airline. This individual now has a six figure debt, no job and a licence that is next to useless other than with Easyjet who do not want them.



L3 have met their commitment in that they have delivered the training and have received their money. Obviously neither L3 or the airline care about the hardship endured by the cadet if the job does not materialise at the end of the MPL. I am sure that this would be true of any training provider (not just L3) and of any airline MPL (not just Easyjet).



This poor individual now has a couple of options, either walk away and find work to service a six figure debt for a career that they will never have or build up flying hours (I think that MPLs do about 70hrs flying) and then CPL, MEP, MEIR and APS MCC and then take their chances with every other unemployed freshly qualified pilot. If they take the second option then their total spend is likely to be North of £150k with the possibility of no career at the end of it, not a situation that anyone should face. In an ideal world the MPL course loan would have some sort of insurance built in to pay the loan if the job isn’t there on completion.



In the past L3 have relied heavily on Easyjet taking their self sponsored candidates but if Easyjet are rejecting graduates of their own MPL course what chances have self sponsored graduates got of getting in with them?
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Old 20th Jan 2020, 08:40
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[QUOTE=magicmick;10667144
In the past L3 have relied heavily on Easyjet taking their self sponsored candidates but if Easyjet are rejecting graduates of their own MPL course what chances have self sponsored graduates got of getting in with them?[/QUOTE]

I somehow doubt this is true. eJ are still running an MPL programme, so it is likely that cadet will have been placed in a hold pool? I think the only reason eJ would not be interested at all in the candidate is if they achieved poor GS results or had poor flying ability.
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Old 20th Jan 2020, 09:14
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Hi Lance, I can only pass on what was told to me, the language used was that he was no longer required. If their GS and or flying skills were poor then I would assume that they would have been rejected earlier in the course rather than allowed to finish before rejection. The story was only related to me a few days ago so it may well be that this individual is from the latest MPL that is currently going through.
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Old 20th Jan 2020, 19:06
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It is likely that they messed up something in a big way. Granted to do the whole course then get dropped isn’t ideal but if you were to make a total mess of the type rating then you’re going to get dropped at the end

In terms of axes to grind, I went through L3 during its identity crisis from CTC to L3. I didn’t have any delays and got through it all fine but I can 100% say I still wouldn’t go near them again with a barge pole. Utterly shambolic attitude to running the ground school whilst I was there. Total, total disregard for anyone’s individual issues or concern, just a total overriding effort to get as much money out of us for the least amount of input/hassle.

it was very much, thanks for your 100k. Now sit down and shut up and you’ll get your licence.

And this was BEFORE the delays/faf/broken promises.

If there’s one major thing I could change about my life choices so far it was choosing those bunch of amateurs.

if your lad wants to do a civvie course, great. I assume because he’s having these chats he’s looking at it. Please steer him WELL CLEAR.
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Old 20th Jan 2020, 19:44
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Hi VP, many thanks for the honest appraisal. My son would love to train but he has problems with astigmatisms and is outside the class 1 limits. After his eyes have stopped developing he could get them lasered as CAA accept certain laser treatments. My wife and I have left him in no doubt that if he wants to train then he does so with his own money and we will not be offering any security even if he is offered an airline tagged course. At the moment he has an assessment day for a degree apprenticeship as an Aerospace Engineer with Airbus, he has also passed the online degree apprenticeship assessments for Leonardo and BAe Systems so we will see where that takes him. If the degree apprenticeships don’t happen then he has provisional offers from several universities to study for Aerospace Engineering BEng.
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Old 21st Jan 2020, 09:11
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Originally Posted by magicmick
Hi VP, many thanks for the honest appraisal. My son would love to train but he has problems with astigmatisms and is outside the class 1 limits. After his eyes have stopped developing he could get them lasered as CAA accept certain laser treatments. My wife and I have left him in no doubt that if he wants to train then he does so with his own money and we will not be offering any security even if he is offered an airline tagged course. At the moment he has an assessment day for a degree apprenticeship as an Aerospace Engineer with Airbus, he has also passed the online degree apprenticeship assessments for Leonardo and BAe Systems so we will see where that takes him. If the degree apprenticeships don’t happen then he has provisional offers from several universities to study for Aerospace Engineering BEng.

Very supportive MM...
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Old 21st Jan 2020, 12:17
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Hi CA, Many thanks for your input, seven years ago our son passed the entrance exam for an expensive public school. At the time my wife and I gave him a choice we would support him through to completion of A levels at the private school or he could attend the local dire state comprehensive and we would put the public school fee money in an account and later in life he could choose what to do with it either fund a degree, deposit on property or pay for flying training once his eye problems have been addressed. Having visited the local comprehensive he chose the public school, over the seven years fees plus extras like school meals, bus fares to and from school, field trips etc I reckon we’ve stumped up about £100k give or take a few grand and given him the privileged education that neither my wife or I ever experienced so I reckon my offspring support credentials have been pretty well established thanks.
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Old 21st Jan 2020, 15:25
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To be fair, your original reply gave the impression you were just being unsupportive for the sake of it. With that context, that's very fair.
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Old 21st Jan 2020, 17:15
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Even during my time at a big school, there were horror stories of tagged easyJet MPL cadets getting to the end of their training and being let go. This was always because of sub-standard performances though, and nothing to do with easyJet not needing people. The MPL schemes will go on forever. It’s good business. The schools make money and get to advertise their airline connections, the airlines get a flow of motivated cadets who pay for type ratings, and the cadets get their jobs. Everyone’s a winner.

As for flyBe, I don’t quite know what to make of them. Too many wobbles in such a short space of time leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. Under no circumstances would I sign up for an MPL with them. As it stands, that seems like a risk of unprecedented proportions. Like said, £100k down the road flyBe could go bust and the school won’t care. Yes, they’ll let you finish your training, but afterwards you’ll be in the job queue. Behind god knows how many hundred ex-flyBe pilots. Take it steady and go modular.

Uncertainty breeds more uncertainty, so flyBe must be in a bit of state as it stands. Bookings must be down, and staff must be leaving in droves. If you were a newly-qualified pilot it would be worth applying to, as there must be a few vacancies.
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