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Repaying Pilot Loan Difficulties

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Repaying Pilot Loan Difficulties

Old 16th Feb 2018, 11:13
  #1 (permalink)  
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Repaying Pilot Loan Difficulties

Hi guys,

So I'm currently waiting on my route allocation for the EasyJet MPL Course. I'm currently trying to sort out the finances on the chance that I'm offered the MPL route. It's looking like I'll be able to get a loan off my family for around 80/90k which is literally scraping the bottom of the barrel. This will be a huge commitment for my parents and I'm not too sure if they're willing to go ahead with it which I completely understand.

The remainder of the training will be paid using a loan of around 35/45k. My parents are not willing to use the house as security as that is quite risky and again I completely understand. This means I will have to go to a bank or a credit union for the loan, the problem being that the max term for these loans is 5 years here in Ireland. These loans generally do not include a payment holiday and will have to start bring paid back during my training.

So I would like to know how hard it is to pay back all this money if/when I begin employment with easyJet. From my understanding the starting wage will be around £30,000 NET. Of course living costs would determine how easy it would be to repay around £1,250 a month.

I would like to know of any of you are currently paying back a loan of this size and how you are managing with it. I want to be certain that I can repay my parents and the loan back without problems. I understand that this is a huge undertaking and that this route may not be for me. Please share your experiences with me, I am in need of some solid advice.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 18:22
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How do you guys justify paying so much for flight training. This sum of money is unreal. Looking at the math and if itís true that at the beginning you will only get 30000 net, half will go to pay off the debt, so it leaves you with 15000 to live off the whole year in the UK. Good luck. I would wait couple of years save same money and then decide what to do. I would be my pants if I have debts of over 130000 for flight training
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 18:34
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Yes I understand that it's a huge understanding but at the end of the day it's the quickest way into the right hand seat. The only reason I am even considering this is because of the conditional job offer that's on the line. With easyJet the average time to Captaincy is around 6 or 7 years or so they said in the presentations. The salary will obviously have increased quite a bit since the start and will only keep on increasing. The main issue is being able to survive financially for the first couple of years. I have no intention of buying a house or car anytime soon. The cost of the training is incredibly expensive but could be a great investment should it work out. For example, if I go the modular route and have to save then I will be waiting an extra 3 years before I start flying. Imagine what 3 years will be worth to me later on in my career should I go down this route? £100k a year assuming the role of a senior captain?
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 22:23
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3 years? Cant you work for 3 years to save some money, learning the value of it and maturing a bit more? what's special about you that sets you apart from L3's 100 odd cadets in the hold-pool waiting for EZY and other opportunities?(not being insulting)
I am waiting for 7 and counting matey... I am very sorry but I will sound harsh, that's madness. You're saying your parents don't really have it, and you're going to risk their livelihoods anyway? Good luck tho...you better be the ******* best and ace it, to the point that even if the market is in downturn when you finish, they still take you.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 23:10
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AMS
 
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I cant believe what I read.......blinded by the bling of it all.

Agreed the fasted way in, but when you cant afford it? The risks outweighs the possibilities of command etc ....ludicrous...

If you can afford it - the perfect answer.... but if you cant...then you are mad

You invest all the amounts you are talking about after tax. If you do make it and are fine the salary will be ok and you could be set but you are forgetting that’s should you struggle and they let you go.....you may as well have flushed it all in the bog!

Thinking of even putting your folks in a position to help you - which they will want to do as they want to see their child happy.....If you have hunger and want it badly - join the que of many that have worked and saved and then paid for out themselves!

This profession is not like others - where you can compare post qualifying .....anything could happen and your investment is gone.....

Hence they ask for security...

If you can afford it do it and best of luck ...but if it goes belly up!

You could guarantee your folks to be working till dooms day!

Best of luck
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 23:11
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It isn't the quickest way into the right hand seat but it sure is the most expensive.

Cabin crew earn more than 15k a year.

And asssuming 97 is the year you were born that makes you 20 or 21. Why such a rush. Go fly a turbo prop, it won't cost you anything on top of a CPL, and earn your place instead or you'll just become another orange drone being dragged around the skies of Europe by an Airbus without any real clue what you're doing.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 23:14
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Originally Posted by Noel97 View Post
Yes I understand that it's a huge understanding but at the end of the day it's the quickest way into the right hand seat. The only reason I am even considering this is because of the conditional job offer that's on the line. With easyJet the average time to Captaincy is around 6 or 7 years or so they said in the presentations. The salary will obviously have increased quite a bit since the start and will only keep on increasing. The main issue is being able to survive financially for the first couple of years. I have no intention of buying a house or car anytime soon. The cost of the training is incredibly expensive but could be a great investment should it work out. For example, if I go the modular route and have to save then I will be waiting an extra 3 years before I start flying. Imagine what 3 years will be worth to me later on in my career should I go down this route? £100k a year assuming the role of a senior captain?
(my bold). Christ. You're betting all that money (that your parents are going to have take risks upon getting) on a presentation and shoulds, coulds?

The market is VERY volatile. Don't bet the farm. You will regret it.

Also, £130k for fATPL training is ridiculous. You are being sold a dream at a very high premium, with a lot of risk. Don't do it.

Go the modular route. You'll come out of it a better pilot, with more experience, and more respect from your peers. On the other hand, if all you care about is money, and the chance to drop right into a shiny jet seat, go for it. Lemme guess, you're looking at CTC/L3?
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 08:41
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Good friend of mine is an EZY FO based out of LGW - that guy is broke because his loan repayments cripple him and his parents house is on the line.

These presentations by these big companies make it seem like its accessible to everyone, even to some messed up point where you kind of feel bad for not having the money. £130K? Insane money.

I wrote on a thread the other day that my parents were never in a financial position to help me (no issues with people who do!); but from the age of 16 I was paying for my own food and school uniform and because I knew we didn't have the money and I wanted to fly, it made me work extra hard, got my BEng and MSc (paid for by work!), lived all over the UK, seen the world, have a good career and now i'm able to put £1000 a month away so I can go do a modular course somewhere; it'll all work out in the end - and i've actually had a pretty good time doing things that I once thought I had to so I could become a pilot, then I realised it'll happen one day if I keep working towards it, but to enjoy the opportunities I have now too!

My mum puts in the hours behind a check out in Tesco in her mid-60's, not because she wants to but because she has to - exactly what could happen your poor old mother if things go belly up with the industry!

Give it a while fella, don't rush

Also, on a side note - i've seen a lot of ex L3/CTC cadets on linkedin who are still currently unemployed months and months after training. Fairly big hold pool at the moment does anyone know? (curiousity!)
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 08:54
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OP, you need to consider that anything can happen between the date you take these loans and the date you finish paying them off. E.g. You could lose your medical, training may not go as planned, you may not have a job at the end (if you are going to remember one thing about this industry is that NO JOB is guaranteed, regardless of what they tell you and what amazing statistics they have). No matter what happens, you will need to pay back those loans.

Originally Posted by FlyVeryHigh- View Post
Good friend of mine is an EZY FO based out of LGW
Also, on a side note - i've seen a lot of ex L3/CTC cadets on linkedin who are still currently unemployed months and months after training. Fairly big hold pool at the moment does anyone know? (curiousity!)
EZY have gotten hold of a bunch of Monarch pilots so hold pool has only gotten bigger I believe.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 12:42
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Originally Posted by FlyVeryHigh- View Post
Also, on a side note - i've seen a lot of ex L3/CTC cadets on linkedin who are still currently unemployed months and months after training. Fairly big hold pool at the moment does anyone know? (curiousity!)
I’m still quite early in my training (PPL) after deciding to go modular, I’ve been in touch with L3 and OAA, EZY are the main recruiter from both, other than that L3 mentioned something about wizz taking on cadets also EZY Swiss. OAA informed me their tagged scheme positions are being pushed to the back end of 2019. I also have heard on the street that EZY have filled their quota and the cadets are swimming.

Can I kindly suggest OP reads a thread in the ‘Terms and Endearment’ forum its the stuff of nightmares!

Cadet opportunity on behalf of a friend..

Good Luck!
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 13:58
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L3 holding pool is piling up because Easyjet is not hiring from them for about 6 months now. Wizzair does take some, but not too many. EZY swiss is not related to L3 and people who were offered positions with EZY swiss, they got the job by applying all by themself.

So yes, L3/CTC is struggling to find places for their students. But that is just real life honestly... no flight school will ever 'find you a job'. You have to do it by yourself whether you did integrated or modular.

Even though the chances are quite a bit better when you did fully integrated and you did very well through your training. If you didn't... well you could have saved yourself around 80k by going modular. You have exactly the same chances for employment at that point.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 14:50
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If people are struggling to repay their training loans at rock bottom interest rates, what happens when those rates go up? Particularly at airlines where the money isn't great when starting off. People shouldn't just be thinking about whether they can or can't get a job but whether they will be able to pay the loan with an extra 5-10% added to the interest rate. A lot can change in a couple of years.
Chris the Robot is online now  
Old 17th Feb 2018, 16:27
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
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I did it the BBVA way with CTC. Not the same circumstances as you but I'll try to give a good insight. I saved up 20K through living at home over about 2 years. Borrowed about 80K. I get 2 years repayment holiday (although I've voluntarily started payments early as I have an income).

Payments for Years 2-4 - £750.00 a month (circa)
Payments for Years 4-10 -£1000.00 a month (circa)

It is doable, but be prepared to make concessions along the way. Although, if you want my advice. Go modular. CTC was a huge mistake for me. My airline employs modular guys just the same as integrated.

Keep your eyes open and don't believe a word A.P says.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 16:39
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I followed a group of 20 cadets 7 years ago through one of the main integrated training providers. That group were all integrated into our airline through an established cadet programme. Of that group, 10 were seamlessly integrated from their IR straight into the airline. The remaining 10 had a 6 month gap before they were taken on. That group (as a whole) were probationary for the first 8 months or so, but all were offered permanent employment contracts that dovetailed from that probation. All had their type ratings paid for (albeit on a decreasing 3 year bond agreement). Of that group, and over a 6 year period (post ab-initio training,) baring a couple who had moved on to employment with the largest national carrier, all of them were either captains or in the process of completing Command training. All of them had either satisfied their training loan commitments or were in the advanced stages of doing so. Most had home mortgages and were on their second car loan.

Undoubtably, at the point that group started their training, there would have been hundreds arguing it was “a waste of money” and better to save cash for the purpose of buying a “type rating” etc. Many are probably still here, in much the same position, and arguing the same thing!

The problem is, that there simply aren’t any guarantees. It is a very big risk. It is very expensive in any event. The group I followed were without doubt lucky, and their choices were very well timed. I would also point out without any hesitation, that past performance is certainly no guarantee of future opportunities! For airlines with cadet programmes a great many of them are tied to specific ab-initio training providers. For those that aren’t, it is disingenuous to suggest the chances are equal. That may seem unfair or unjust but it is a mathematical reality.

Given the eye watering costs of self funded training (however “self funded” is defined) it is inevitable that the vast majority of people will either elect or be forced into seeking the most affordable route available to them. As a result you will see a “paddock” of people in these large integrated providers, and “fields as far as the eye can see” of others. That doesn’t mean that people in the “fields” won’t find opportunities, but obviously the competition for those opportunities will be fierce.

For those airlines with tied cadet programmes, the “paddock” is going to be the only source. Given, that those airlines aren’t charities, the opportunities are still going to be governed by demand. When demand is weak, those potential candidates are going to be left languishing in the paddock with likely much higher levels of debt. However, that still doesn’t change either the mathematics or the reality.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 16:39
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Hi guys thank you all for the replies. It would take way too long to reply each but I'll say this. Even if easyJet offer me the route I cant see myself taking it. I've been thinking about this nonstop for the last week and I guess I'm coming to terms with just how ridiculous the price of training is. I'm in 3rd year of aeronautical engineering so I will finish out my degree. There is also the option of a master's in aero engineering for 3 thousand euros. I may end up doing that and working till I've saved up enough. I probably won't work and train at the same time, instead I'll go full time modular. Where? I don't know. I'll have to do more research. Flying is all I want to do and I guess when I've gotten this far into the selection process I became a bit delusional to say the least.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 16:55
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Good decision Noel. For all of the reasons you suggest, I think you are probably right and it sounds like a well considered, realistic, and sensible decision.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 17:09
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In the meantime I'll keep flying and get those PIC hours up. I believe Aer Lingus are doing a sponsored cadetship later in the year so I'll give that a shot too. Hopefully if I get the masters in engineering it'll help me regarding job employment after I go the modular route. Thanks for the advice guys, especially those who didn't shoot me down completely and gave some good advice haha!
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 22:47
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Supporting what you've said Noel - the big 2 integrated training providers have statistics similar to those in the daily mail... True I'm sure, but relevant, no.
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Old 18th Feb 2018, 08:41
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I already have my PPL, I started in a flying club but did the bulk of my training in AFTA in cork. My flying club is around 120 euro an hour and it's only 5 minutes down the road!
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Old 25th Mar 2018, 10:11
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Join Date: Mar 2018
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I'm 20 years old and been saving since I was 18, been putting away £1000 p/m, I'm planning on saving just over half over my ATPL training and then going down the modular route
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