Air France Cadet Programme
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Air France Cadet Programme
Can't seem to find a thread for this. Did I miss it?
https://www.pilotcareernews.com/air-...-for-training/
https://www.pilotcareernews.com/air-...-for-training/
Um...I might see if one of my French speaking offspring wants to do a “press to test”......
At a quick glance the academic qualifications (listed in application conditions) are interesting,
BEING AN AIR FRANCE AIRLINE PILOT | Air France - Corporate
As I read it that you need a BAC or equivalent if you already hold a “pro” licence, if they don’t they are looking for BAC+2 or better.....( I’ll let the educational experts really try to nail down equivalency but in vague terms that’s probably U.K. A levels plus at the very least one or two successful years in tertiary education.)
The “right to work” clause might throw a spanner in the works for some non French nationals thinking of applying, unless they get in quick and/or we get clarification on a certain issue that cannot be named PDQ.
That aside, it’s good to see them come up with this scheme.
At a quick glance the academic qualifications (listed in application conditions) are interesting,
BEING AN AIR FRANCE AIRLINE PILOT | Air France - Corporate
As I read it that you need a BAC or equivalent if you already hold a “pro” licence, if they don’t they are looking for BAC+2 or better.....( I’ll let the educational experts really try to nail down equivalency but in vague terms that’s probably U.K. A levels plus at the very least one or two successful years in tertiary education.)
The “right to work” clause might throw a spanner in the works for some non French nationals thinking of applying, unless they get in quick and/or we get clarification on a certain issue that cannot be named PDQ.
That aside, it’s good to see them come up with this scheme.
Last edited by wiggy; 16th Feb 2018 at 14:40.
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French is requirement, more than advanced as some test (a few years ago) include french text that even a french may find it hard.
Hope that their selection will be more practical and not only about psychotech...
Not only french can pass, but people that speak french such as Belgians, Swiss, Luxembourg.
but eh, fair enough, British airways require ICAO level 6 in english.
Hope that their selection will be more practical and not only about psychotech...
Not only french can pass, but people that speak french such as Belgians, Swiss, Luxembourg.
but eh, fair enough, British airways require ICAO level 6 in english.
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French speaking on French flights, rightly so. In the past three weeks I have been on four 'Air France' flights where there was only one stewardess as French speaker, the others were a delightful mix of Irish, Geordie and Dutch.. That caused some confusion amongst the passengers, especially when we had a problem and had to return to Paris with a gear issue, the Captain's explanation took a while to get round the cabin being translated in to French and German. It seems that City Jets' recruitment policy is not quite aligned to mainline Air France.
Bon chance for those that apply,
Bon chance for those that apply,
Not sure why Air France wanting fluent French is worthy of possibly adverse comment, anymore that e.g. Lufthansa wanting fluent German (if they do) or Aeroflot wanting Russian, or BA needing functional English.
ICAO 6 for English is obviously essential on the flight deck world wide but bear flight crew crew have to deal with the back office staff, e.g. Ops, engineering, navigation, rostering, general admin, areas which are probably going to be manned by staff who may well not have a foreign language requirement....
BA advertise for level 6 but from what I have seen and heard they certainly look for a higher level of ability at interview.
ICAO 6 for English is obviously essential on the flight deck world wide but bear flight crew crew have to deal with the back office staff, e.g. Ops, engineering, navigation, rostering, general admin, areas which are probably going to be manned by staff who may well not have a foreign language requirement....
BA advertise for level 6 but from what I have seen and heard they certainly look for a higher level of ability at interview.
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I think is a way to prioritise french jobs for french citizens, which is along the lines of what most other sponsored cadet schemes do I.E. Singapore, Emirates, HK. Which is completely fair in my opinion, It would be nice for other airlines to follow this example.
You may well think that, but of course AF are not going to say that the language qualfication is in place for that reason.... ..
...and anyhow as previously posted there are practical reasons for the local "lingo" requirement that could apply to any language and anywhere in the world.
Don't know if you have anywhere/any airline in particular in mind but as I am sure you are aware aside from a few specialist occupations (usually some areas of government service, armed forces, or similar ) prioritising jobs for local nationals is not legal in some parts of the world, e.g. the EU.
...and anyhow as previously posted there are practical reasons for the local "lingo" requirement that could apply to any language and anywhere in the world.
...which is along the lines of what most other sponsored cadet schemes do I.E. Singapore, Emirates, HK. Which is completely fair in my opinion, It would be nice for other airlines to follow this example.
Last edited by wiggy; 21st Feb 2018 at 09:15.
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I've always wondered about this. Realistically, what are the chances of a non-native getting a job for a flag carrier? I.e a Brit with a decent level of French getting on this scheme. Or someone who is French, Spanish, etc with decent enough English getting a job with British Airways? Disregarding dual-citizenship and that sort of thing.
Or is it one of those things where technically "anyone" can apply, but behind closed doors only those who fit in perfectly with the airline's image will be selected? I.e faultlessly accented nationals?
My personal opinion is that if I got on a British Airways flight, I would expect to hear British accents from the crew. The same as I would expect German from Lufthansa, French from Air France, Dutch from KLM, and Australian from Qantas. Nothing to do with racism or discrimination. It's the fitting-in with the brand around the airline. I would be quite disappointed if I got on BA flight and the PA announcements were in broken English with undertones of Spanish, French, German, etc.
I understand there are some smaller flag carriers who probably don't have many nationals to choose from, as well as the likes of Emirates and Etihad who have crew from all over the world, but I've always wondered about what the chances are of a non-national flying for a big flag carrier.
Or is it one of those things where technically "anyone" can apply, but behind closed doors only those who fit in perfectly with the airline's image will be selected? I.e faultlessly accented nationals?
My personal opinion is that if I got on a British Airways flight, I would expect to hear British accents from the crew. The same as I would expect German from Lufthansa, French from Air France, Dutch from KLM, and Australian from Qantas. Nothing to do with racism or discrimination. It's the fitting-in with the brand around the airline. I would be quite disappointed if I got on BA flight and the PA announcements were in broken English with undertones of Spanish, French, German, etc.
I understand there are some smaller flag carriers who probably don't have many nationals to choose from, as well as the likes of Emirates and Etihad who have crew from all over the world, but I've always wondered about what the chances are of a non-national flying for a big flag carrier.
FWIW there are lots of single nationality non Brits flying at BA. Plenty of Dutch pilots (including a few of the trainers on one or two of the senior fleets, ) a few French and Belgians, not sure about Spaniards or Germans but given the size of the pilot force I’d guess there are a few.....(edit to add: there are also plenty of non EU national pilots at BA, working by virtue of family connections e.g. marriage)...it is a fairly diverse place.
As for the other airlines such as Brits at AF..there are the occasional rumours that it may have happened, but nothing I can verify.
...Given the high percentage of BA cabin crew who are not British (recruited in part because of the need for dual or more language speakers on many flights) and given the fact the cabin crew do the majority of the PAs on a normal flight I think you may well end up being disappointed.
As for the other airlines such as Brits at AF..there are the occasional rumours that it may have happened, but nothing I can verify.
My personal opinion is that if I got on a British Airways flight, I would expect to hear British accents from the crew.
Last edited by wiggy; 21st Feb 2018 at 17:44.
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Positive discrimination is the way to go 
Best keep our Lefty's happy, how else can we improve the UK?
Only in the UK would we have moaners should the government actually protect local job for the British people!
Best keep our Lefty's happy, how else can we improve the UK?
Only in the UK would we have moaners should the government actually protect local job for the British people!
if a British airline was seen to only employ mainly Brits
..and we’ve been talking, in part at least, about language skills and selection.Just to join a few more of the dots I do know of a couple of British pilots currently working in France but not for AF, and I’ve met a couple of British nationals who are ground staff at our local French airport, working for French companies. One of my offspring has worked for a large French multinational company in Paris despite being a British national. All those people got the “gigs” because they were fluent in (at least) two languages, got off their backsides and applied for advertised positions. I know in some countries it’s easy to sit on the sidelines and blame the French/Germans/the Left etc but that’s not the whole problem, there is also the inconvenient truth that most Brits are monolingual and as a result shut themselves out of huge chunks of the worldwide labour market.
As for BA , there’s no need for anybody to board the outrage bus, as I mentioned earlier, there are foreign nationals working at BA but the vast majority of BA’s employees, on the ground and in the air, are Brits.....
Last edited by wiggy; 22nd Feb 2018 at 08:03.
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Guys,
I see your point, and you might certainly be right about national preferences for two equally qualified candidates.
But I have worked for Air France as Student Cabin Crew, and first their was foreigners in their crews (seldom but it was mostly due to the number of foreigners being totally fluent in French compared to foreigners speaking English for instance), and secondly Air France as an heavy company culture where French is just present everywhere.
If a foreigner is absolutely fluent in French and has a THE profile (the one Air France is looking), I am pretty sure, there will not be discrimination. But if you do not speak the language, it is just not compatible with the culture.
Do not forget we are talking about a FRENCH company, and if you guys want to work there in most areas, French is a must. Most of us are not even able to work in English...
Legacy airlines in Europe are not really international in their staff, so it makes sense to me, you must be proficient in the national language to be well integrated.
I see your point, and you might certainly be right about national preferences for two equally qualified candidates.
But I have worked for Air France as Student Cabin Crew, and first their was foreigners in their crews (seldom but it was mostly due to the number of foreigners being totally fluent in French compared to foreigners speaking English for instance), and secondly Air France as an heavy company culture where French is just present everywhere.
If a foreigner is absolutely fluent in French and has a THE profile (the one Air France is looking), I am pretty sure, there will not be discrimination. But if you do not speak the language, it is just not compatible with the culture.
Do not forget we are talking about a FRENCH company, and if you guys want to work there in most areas, French is a must. Most of us are not even able to work in English...
Legacy airlines in Europe are not really international in their staff, so it makes sense to me, you must be proficient in the national language to be well integrated.
What ben said..
As to airlines other than AF not protecting the locals...well many airlines, even the flag carriers these days, are a commercial operation, with share holders and need to turn a profit..if the airline board sees a benefit to being "diverse" it will do it.
Just one example which may or may not have happened: an airline sees it will have a commercial advantage by employing foreign language speakers because of the large number of connecting passengers it carries from diverse countries. It finds it's local "natives" are not generally multi lingual, it decides it hasn't got the time or resources to make all existing crew multi lingual, but it finds it can source foreign language speakers from abroad...what do you think that airline will do?
As to airlines other than AF not protecting the locals...well many airlines, even the flag carriers these days, are a commercial operation, with share holders and need to turn a profit..if the airline board sees a benefit to being "diverse" it will do it.
Just one example which may or may not have happened: an airline sees it will have a commercial advantage by employing foreign language speakers because of the large number of connecting passengers it carries from diverse countries. It finds it's local "natives" are not generally multi lingual, it decides it hasn't got the time or resources to make all existing crew multi lingual, but it finds it can source foreign language speakers from abroad...what do you think that airline will do?
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Indeed, I guess if your level of proficiency in the local language is good enough and you also speak other languages, it can even become an advantage compare to a local in terms of diversity, motivation and of course language spoken.
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As Air France are picking up the bill, they probably do have a preference for Natives.
I really am astonished at how broken the funding system is for pilot training, and that nothing seems to be done about it. If it cost over 100k upfront to become a doctor or teacher there would be an outrage (and rightly so).
I really am astonished at how broken the funding system is for pilot training, and that nothing seems to be done about it. If it cost over 100k upfront to become a doctor or teacher there would be an outrage (and rightly so).