Pilot shortage: Who's going to fly our planes?

[plasmarb]

As per this BBC article, a load of cobblers considering the large pools of pilots waiting?

Pilot shortage: Who's going to fly our planes? - BBC News

[Jaair]

I don't believe there's a shortage of pilots. Airlines are not struggling to find low hour pilots who are happy to pay for the TR. If there really was a shortage we'd see airlines partially or fully paying for TR. There would also be a lot less unemployed low hour pilots.

If there really is a shortage, it would be of experienced pilots.

[fepilot]

Just google any profession in the world and it will say shortage. Doctors/ engineers/ teachers - check and see....! It is very difficult to get a secure job as a pilot particularly in a area near to where you live. Google unemployed pilots Europe/ Asia etc very high percentage. 15-20 % unemployed.

If people have to pay for training - that for a start would suggest there is no shortage. Then pay for a type rating....or pay for experience. Flying is a dream job for many people and therefore many people train already....

[Jaair]

I believe 99% of US majors require pilots to have a University degree. It's basically a way to filter the thousands of pilot applications they receive.

I have seen some pilot job adverts in Europe saying that a University degree would be beneficial. Who knows, maybe one day they'll make it mandatory like in the US.

[hoduka]

There were a few airlines in europe aswell, who required a degree.

Yes, its a filter, yes a dance teacher degree doesnt do anything with this profession. Of course, you can be an idiot with a PhD aswell, but having a degree can be an indicator of the willingnes to study.
Yes of course, suffering through the ATPL also, but we know that can be passed without knowing a thing. Then again, a degree can be similar.

As now we can see, no one requires a degree for the RHS, and if the demand continues it wont be a factor for a while.

I can see its advantage when applying for a manager role or something.

[Hawker400]

As someone who started the conversion process from ICAO to EASA I can't for the life of me understand the need for a degree for any entry-level pilot jobs in Europe.

In Brazil the studying required to achieve a fAtpl is very little and I can see why a civil aviation BA would be a deal breaker when moving to captain. Quoting Phil Croucher's Book (excellent by the way) "...the original intention behind the EASA exams was to make them the equivalent of a BA degree, since people were regarded as joining a profession. As with many other degrees, a lot of the subject matter was included as padding for credibility purposes, and the main purpose was forgotten. Currently, the EASA ATPL, according to Bristol University, has the same standing as two years of a degree-level course, although the exam procedures are nowhere near as rigorous as that."

In hard times it can be used to thin the herd but I'd rather someone who has more hours than a degree. Especially since me, like most people having the chance to go to college I would do something completely separate to aviation so as to have a very different plan B.

Give me as many courses to make a great captain, but don't tell me any old basket- weaving degree is worth more when choosing candidates.

[PA28161]

Originally Posted by Jaair

I don't believe there's a shortage of pilots. Airlines are not struggling to find low hour pilots who are happy to pay for the TR. If there really was a shortage we'd see airlines partially or fully paying for TR. There would also be a lot less unemployed low hour pilots.

If there really is a shortage, it would be of experienced pilots.

Your last sentence hit the nail on the head

[PA28161]

Originally Posted by Negan

That will be a sad day if it ever comes to that in Europe

It's not enough people work their ass off for years to fund their training then to be told you need a college degree as well

The job should go to the best pilot not the person with a qualification which has nothing to do with being a pilot

So if you have six experienced pilots at the final stage of selection, all of whom are equally skilled, as pilots, then how does an airline choose the one they want. There has to be some other skill/education/quality eliminator. Most likely it will be a degree (even if in basket weaving) because this is a tangible measure of an extended education and if all six applicants have degrees then it will be further differentiated by type, discipline and honors classification. Simple!

[aerodestination]

having a degree makes a lot of sense, especially for cadets coming out of flight school.

differantiation between cadets is incredibly small and normally only based on the amount of groundschool fails, scores and first/second series IR/CPL. Also based on the flight school report obviously. But this is only based on your skills during training.

A degree will broaden your vision, improve your learning abilities and you will do lots of group projects which will help your decision making, leadership and teamwork abilities.

Off course you won't use a lot of the things you have learned during your degree in the cockpit... however, it is an assurance for an airline that you are able to do more in life than just fly a plane.

This still means that not having a degree is fine too, but that airlines will give preference to candidates that do have a degree makes sense to me. It simply reduces the training risk for an airline.

[MaverickPrime]

I don't think there is a shortage of CPL/MEIR holders. I do think there is a shortage of suitably qualified and properly trained CPL/MEIR holders, especially regarding the 'soft' skills.

I spoke to someone recently who is involved in recruitment. They said they get CPLs in for recruitment who are turned away as there is literally no chance they could be an airline pilot due to their personality and attitudes.

[asmith474]

Middle east airlines will also be asking for degrees. Some such as emirates already have. The reason for this is not just to thin out the heard but in UAE countries like Dubai having a degree is a requirement for almost all jobs as it makes it much easier for the company to issue a working visa. So if a company has to choose between two pilots with the same hours and licenses, the 1 with the degree will be chosen regardless of what the degree is actually in.

[PA28161]

Negan

I agree with a lot of what you say, but there has to be some other way of selecting the right candidate if all six have equal fying skills/aviation knowledge /awareness etc. Do we just put the six names into a hat and draw one out, because there is no other discernable way to differentiate between them? Or maybe they will choose the prettiest boy/girl and select on looks, ethnic origin, the smartest dressed at interview/ the one who speaks with RP/ ?. I'm sure I don't know what the panel of selectors use as a benchmark when faced with such a situation.

[Bealzebub]

No, that isn’t what happens. If you have been selected for interview then you are a strong candidate for that role. The interview is your opportunity to sell yourself. You would be amazed how many people dont!

“Everything” is never equal! Most interviewers will be looking for people who present themselves in a professional manner. Accepting that candidates will be often be nervous, you are looking for people who display commensense and leadership. You want people who display those core “notech” skills that will be essential to the next stage of the process, that being training. Central to those skills are communication, but there are many others, and the interviewers will be looking for some evidence of those in somebody who otherwise appears well rounded, knowledgable and pleasant.

An interview will never be an infallible process or a perfect filter, but it is a well trodden path and much of what is expected shouldn’t really come as a surprise to candidates. This is a technical role in a customer focussed industry. An interviewer can reasonably expect the candidate to be well groomed and professionally and smartly dressed. They should have a good broad knowledge of the company. They should have a good broad technical knowledge. They should communicate well. The interviewers (who are all individuals working as a team) are looking for people who must also be able to do the same. From the interview they are likely to select those individuals who are likely to fit in the companies corporate culture, and whose technical background suggests a very high likelihood of success at the next stage.

Nobody is selected as decoration or garnish. Everybody has the opportunity to be selected further. Despite that, it is surprising how many people fail to research or prepare adequately. A good interviewer will be well aware that a candidate may be stressed or nervous and they should be able to put the candidate at some degree of ease in order to bring the best out of them, after all it is “the best” that you want to hear. They would also expect a candidate for this role to be able to deal with a certain degree of stress. Candidates presenting themselves with some form of “distraction” (casual dress or grooming, dirty shoes, etc.) does rather suggest either a lack of research, understanding, or commitment to the role, and will have done nothing to enhance their chances.

[aerodestination]

all points you mentioned are very true too.

however, those are all related to already being invited for an interview. Selling yourself in a cover letter or CV is a lot harder. That is why I said that having a degree will most definitely help getting an interview. If you are invited for the interview, having a degree will probably not help you much anymore and it is all about presentation, teamwork, leadership and your sim assessment.

at the moment aviation is doing very well and there are plenty of opportunities, even for cadets. however, what if things are not so great? like in 2009/2010/2011. There were still some airlines who were hiring but they sometimes had a few thousand applicants. I am sure that having a degree will help to some extend at least getting that first interview. From then on, you are on your own and you need to suit the company and have the competences for the job as a pilot.

[Bealzebub]

Yes, I completely agree with you. My reply was targetted at the posts immediately preceding my own. At “entry level” one of the differentials that matters, is going to be educational experience. The more the better! In any event, and understanding the many reasons why people don’t, a better and more advanced education background is something I would always encourage.

As has already been pointed out in this thread, there are many parts of the world where a degree is a fundamental requirement of the job process. That is likely to become more so in the future. In the USA the education culture assumes that a degree is a normal part of the process for many more professional opportunities than might be the case in other parts of the world. In parts of the Middle East, a degree is often mandatory for immigration permits for opportunities above specific grade levels. In the U.K. the mandatory minimum school leaving age is rising from age 16 to 18. There is an international drive to improve educational standards (even if that is to keep school leavers off the unemployment counts.) Employers are going to see Advanced qualifications and degrees as more and more the norm, and in turn. That is what they are going to expect.

Even for those pilots without degrees, many of the advancement opportunities that may otherwise be a part of their future careers, are likely to require educational certification as a part of the qualifying criteria. It is never too late to learn, but clearly it is advantageous to have acquired the education at the earliest opportunity.

[Eudi]

Only exists shortage for experience typed rated pilots and Captains. It is true if you have some hours maybe you can get some opportunitty to have a interview but for 1 position still there are 1000 candidates and expect very low conditions and pay the type.

Doesn't matter how succesful you are, finally the companies hiring the cheapest and experienced candidate.