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BA Cadet Programme

Old 19th Oct 2017, 00:38
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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situational judgement test

Anyone know anything about the 'situational judgement test'?
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 06:54
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Man U

My question to BA Recruitment is simply, what's changed?
It's simply what Abbey Road said..these days, and increasingly so after Mr Cruz arrived, absolutely everything in BA has a monetary value attached and just about everything has to be a revenue stream or it will not happen.

The only way under the Cruz/Walsh watch that a pilot training scheme is going to be subsidised is if somebody other than BA finds all the cash (and I suspect BA would want a cut of those funds) .

It is probably no consolation here but it has rightly raised considerable adverse comment in a couple of other on-line "places", one company internal, but that won't change anything...I guess in BA's world if BA pilots feel funding is needed for future colleagues then they should donate some of their own income rather than it coming out of the company pot....something effectively suggested, not completely in jest, by one of our more interesting colleagues....
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 06:55
  #23 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
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The ECONOMICS of this decision will simply bring SUPPLY & DEMAND into play.

Clearly they will get a number of takers, but significantly less than previous numbers.
Ultimately they will need to go into the open market place cover the shortfall from the whitetail brigade, or those already flying.
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 08:38
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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BA, once a great airline, has tumbled down due to recent IT failures, scrapping their cadet program and having a Spanish CEO who wears a hi-vis jacket in an office environment!

Why anybody would want to pay this absurd amount when you can easily pay £40,000 for a full fATPL is outstanding!
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 08:39
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by joebloggs08 View Post
So BA,

As you can see from people's reactions (including ex and current FPPs) and in my personal opinion as a current FPP, rightful comments, the new BA Cadet Programme is embarrassing to British Airways. There is no doubt that British Airways can no longer pride itself on employing 'the best pilots' when it limits its intake to only those who are wealthy enough to invest in the training.

Maybe it is just me but there seems to be some ambiguous answers flying around. I propose a few very simple questions..

Firstly, does BA realise how many not just successful but highly talented FPP First Officers are currently flying on the line for the airline? Many of which (and all of whom that I know) would not be in their current position was it not for the financial security of the FPP. Quite simply, removing this aspect from the Cadet Programme removes that talent available.
As plainly as can possibly be put, the current FPPs were chosen as the best out of all whom wanted to apply. The new scheme seems set out to take the best out of all whom can afford to apply. i.e. BA recruits the best of the people who can afford it rather than just the best full stop.
So, can BA see and do they agree that this new cadet scheme limits a huge amount of talent from the opportunity of becoming a British Airways pilot?

Secondly, as has been previously stated, not too long ago (FPP era) BA advertised that "one of the biggest obstacles is the cost of pilot training" and that "British Airways firmly believes this shouldn't be the case".
So, how is a talented individual who cannot afford the £115,000 supposed to be able to now pursue a career as a British Airways pilot?

I look forward to hearing any logical answers.
£115k is an Eligibility Criteria like Class1(you can have all the talent in the world but can you fly without a Class1?). Financial Fitness like Medical Fitness.
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 11:16
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Itís a self-perpetuating problem. People want to fly for an airline so badly they would give up their right arm for the opportunity. Training providers and airlines know this, and take full advantage of it. As unrealistic as it is, if nobody applied for such cadet schemes and nobody went to the big training providers with £100k in their back pockets then airlines and training providers would have to improve their offering. As things stand, though, this will not happen. Indeed, when I went through my training it was only about £85k, so the evidence suggests itís getting more expensive and more difficult. If itís now £115k then the cost of the course has increased by about 35% in the space of only a few years, which is clearly an unsustainable increase in the long run.

Nevertheless, for those who can afford it this is still a great opportunity to get into BA and I wish those applying nothing but the best of luck. Once you make it through the whole thing life is pretty good.
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 11:39
  #27 (permalink)  
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I find this interesting, not just about BA but about the industry as a whole.

This effectively sends out the message that to be a pilot, you need cash, a lot of it ... lots and lots of cash (well hello?).

Yes it's nothing new, but in recent times it seemed many big players were taking strides towards changing that, saying it isn't how it should be and doing whatever possible to enable all to apply.

Well it looks like it was 1 step forward and 3 steps back, we've gone back to giving no financial help and the training is now suddenly almost double what it was. We were better 10 yrs ago basically. Even ex ctc/oaa cadets will tell you they paid like 75k ... when they hear today's figures their negative reaction pretty much tells it all.

These schools, one in particular, now seem to be placing themselves as somewhat of a business institution rather than a flight school, i don't know they don't give the feel and presence of a flight school, yes of course all schools are a business ... but it's scary with them. Especially the 'solutions' bit, sounds like an IT firm or something. Flying anyone? ... but this is it.

Anyway as was already said, there is no flight training worth anything close to 115k. I am going through the process myself and am seeing everything involved ... it can be logically deduced therefore that 115k is therefore only going to line the pockets of rich people, and no you won't be included. They trick people into paying it by advertising that somehow only they can make you a very good pilot, dare go somewhere less famous ... oops ... you may not be a good pilot. This is the image they create and feed to the mothers and fathers at open days who understandably only want the best for their children and so will suck it all up and do anything to send little Johnny there.

Although the reality of all this hype was showed up to be the rubbish that it truly is when you had ex business institution cadets going up against modular cadets from one of the multitude of smaller schools around ... and the modular guys were actually getting the jobs. Buyer beware.
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 12:24
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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a First Class seat costs a lot more than Economy...do you complain only the wealthy get to fly First Class? BA is BA.
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 12:35
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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I'm confused as to what you're getting at?
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 12:40
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Officer Kite View Post
I presume that was in jest ... no flight training on the planet is worth £115k
I believe CTC is around £120k
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 12:43
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Jockey69, what is your point exactly?
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 13:26
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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£115k for a BA Front Seat...there is reason to that.
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 13:31
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Please, I sit in that seat and still need it explaining to me?
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 13:49
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jockey69 View Post
£115k for a BA Front Seat...there is reason to that.
A combination of supply/demand, desperation and greed.
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 13:50
  #35 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Abbey Road View Post
My info is copied directly from the website in the links! It doesn't change a thing regarding the gist of my posting. Speak to the person/s responsible for running that website if it bothers you that much.
Not bothered one iota. Just passing on info.
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 14:07
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by keeflyer View Post
I'll bite, such as?
the same reasons why a First Class seat costs more than Economy in the same Flight.
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 16:04
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe, just to be devils advocate here, BA are effectively leaving that criteria in there to prevent every halfwit who fancies a job applying. It's common knowledge that it costs as much as 120k to get qualified and anyone who has serious aspirations would just look at that figure as something to work towards. It's not an insurmountable amount of money, it's far from easy but it's not impossible and those who are determined will find a way.
This approach may block out a number of applicants but they may have made a judgement call that that's worth doing rather than have 150,000 applications to sift through.
I'm not saying I agree with this, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's part of their thinking.

I would however say that "asking questions" of BA is a waste of time as they answer to their shareholders only, not us forum dwellers.
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 16:52
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Nice idea Pizzacake, like your thinking but trust me there is rarely that much logic involved at BA...it will simply be a case of following the money...( to the detriment of those who can't easily stump up the cash)
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 16:54
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jockey69 View Post
£115k is an Eligibility Criteria like Class1(you can have all the talent in the world but can you fly without a Class1?). Financial Fitness like Medical Fitness.
'Financial fitness' is not like medical fitness. It's more like 'financial privilege'. The average person cannot afford this, regardless of how much they want this or how much they've done. Even if they could find it maybe they wouldn't want to because it's unreasonably extortionate.

Big shame really.
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 17:00
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Abbey Road View Post
My info is copied directly from the website in the links! It doesn't change a thing regarding the gist of my posting. Speak to the person/s responsible for running that website if it bothers you that much.


The current CEO of BA does not have a moral compass, and he doesn't give a monkey's cuss how it reflects on the company. Profit before anything, because that is how he gets his rewards.
BA/Aer Lingus et al are as you all know part of IAG. IAG is a multinational business group, not just aviation. They have large investment divisions in the USA and globally. Aviation is not a passion with them and they seem to have knocked any sentiments of that out of BA and Aer Lingus too.

The supply and demand for pilots, whatever you think, is heavily weighted to supply, in fact, oversupply, especially at entry level. If you are a cadet with the right stuff (academics, class I, aptitude etc) then all you need is a very fat wallet and /or someone else with a very fat wallet willing to support you. Usually M&D
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