Recent MCC/JOC experience
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Sound strange to me. I'm curious if this source is a wannabe or something more reliable like an airline assessor.
I know that Simtech is still one of the best Mcc provider in Europe. Do you think their quality is dropped because their students dont pass assessment?
The sim they have is quite good for an mcc, mcc is not a type rating.
I know that Simtech is still one of the best Mcc provider in Europe. Do you think their quality is dropped because their students dont pass assessment?
The sim they have is quite good for an mcc, mcc is not a type rating.
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You should know that a low hour pilot is not assessed on his flying skill on a 737, it does not make any sense, but how he works in a multi crew enviroment. A generic sim for a mcc training is more then enough. Then if you want to feel more relaxed at the assessment you can still book mcc refresh on a 737 or 320, but I think that the simtech sim is quite good for an mcc.
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I've had two SIM assessments with airlines one went well the other not so well. I'm lucky that I'm friends with a 737 TRE so could do SIM preparation for the second assessment. In both assessments they were mostly looking at rudder and stick skills i.e basic hand flying, pitch power couples (when accelerating / decelerating), raw data VOR tracking and ILS.
An awareness of threat and error management with CRM skills (NITS/DODAR) were needed but it was the flying skills they were mostly looking for. You can read up about NITS, DODAR, briefings and TEM fairly easily but flying an expensive SIM is not that easy.
I went to Virtual Aviation for a look around with my mate who was really impressed with them. He told me to go to VA but I was (wrongly) convinced it was the Multi Crew skills that were assessed in any future sim assessments more than the hand flying, so I went to a more reasonably priced one - saving £4000. I probably wouldn't have failed my first assessment if I had 40hrs on a 737 SIM and why I didn't take the advice of someone who runs airline SIM assessments I don't know.....
I understand you can now do a JOC/MCC on a A320 sim at VA - I personally would avoid this because if your Airline assessment is in a 737 you won't be prepared for the trimming etc.
I don't regret going to my MCC/JOC provider - the training itself was excellent but the basic SIM didn't really prepare me at all for an airline assessment, if I hadn't spent time in a fairly cheap 737 NG SIM with my mate I'd have failed both assessments. I used Airavana.co.uk at £55 per hour, its not a FFS but my mate said it was pretty realistic and good enough for what I needed.
Now theres the new APS MCC/JOC course I think its worth spending that bit more on a course to firstly get your foot in the door and then increase your chances of success at a future assessment. Whether that's with VA or another provider I can't say.
An awareness of threat and error management with CRM skills (NITS/DODAR) were needed but it was the flying skills they were mostly looking for. You can read up about NITS, DODAR, briefings and TEM fairly easily but flying an expensive SIM is not that easy.
I went to Virtual Aviation for a look around with my mate who was really impressed with them. He told me to go to VA but I was (wrongly) convinced it was the Multi Crew skills that were assessed in any future sim assessments more than the hand flying, so I went to a more reasonably priced one - saving £4000. I probably wouldn't have failed my first assessment if I had 40hrs on a 737 SIM and why I didn't take the advice of someone who runs airline SIM assessments I don't know.....
I understand you can now do a JOC/MCC on a A320 sim at VA - I personally would avoid this because if your Airline assessment is in a 737 you won't be prepared for the trimming etc.
I don't regret going to my MCC/JOC provider - the training itself was excellent but the basic SIM didn't really prepare me at all for an airline assessment, if I hadn't spent time in a fairly cheap 737 NG SIM with my mate I'd have failed both assessments. I used Airavana.co.uk at £55 per hour, its not a FFS but my mate said it was pretty realistic and good enough for what I needed.
Now theres the new APS MCC/JOC course I think its worth spending that bit more on a course to firstly get your foot in the door and then increase your chances of success at a future assessment. Whether that's with VA or another provider I can't say.
de minimus non curat lex
You should know that a low hour pilot is not assessed on his flying skill on a 737, it does not make any sense, but how he works in a multi crew enviroment. A generic sim for a mcc training is more then enough. Then if you want to feel more relaxed at the assessment you can still book mcc refresh on a 737 or 320, but I think that the simtech sim is quite good for an mcc.
In particular your ability to fly a RAW DATA ILS to DA (successfully) will undoubtedly be part of any assessment.
It is critical that you are proficient in this item, together with the ability to TRIM accurately.
Set the known thrust/power; set the known attitude; and then TRIM. Get it to stay on rails, and release the rest of your grey matter for other tasks ~ capacity to name but one.
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Where do KURA have their sim? What type is it?
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For example:
1
2
3
4
Then you could expect better answers.
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Ok,
I want some more info about their APS MCC program, their final test and also the initial test. It would be nice also to know about their connections and help in finding a job after.
I want some more info about their APS MCC program, their final test and also the initial test. It would be nice also to know about their connections and help in finding a job after.
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Hi everyone!
Currently im under frozen ATPL training! Hopefully going to finish with the exams at the end of the summer.
After finishing it I would like to do the MCC/JOC part as soon as possible in Europe. If anyone could help me tips and advices pls. Reviewing the posts the pilots mostly said the Simtech(but the recent post did not say too much good), Cocki4u, VA.
I read about the Cardiff Aviation with the FFS 747, or BAA seems ok too. Cardiff has quick course and normal, which has time difference but for example the Wizz requests the full 16 hours course. Anyone about this? Is that really important to do these on a FFS or doing these on a FNPT is just fine? Could you tell me the big difference between these? I know the FFS moves like the real one and FNPT is fixed, im looking for answer which could describe me for example the handling difference, little things etc.
Like everyone else I have the same dilemma: doing it on an Airbus, or Boeing? Finishing the courses on the bus and later applying for a RYR sim check? How did you solve this problem? After the airbus paying for a fixed Boeing sim XXeuro/hour in a plaza?
Im not rich, but i would like to pay for the quality of the training. I can not afford the CAE which works double (or triple) than the other organisations. Are they really good for that money, are they really the best? Hmm..
Anyway, I am happy to read your answers, tips and advices.
Thank you, Good day!
Currently im under frozen ATPL training! Hopefully going to finish with the exams at the end of the summer.
After finishing it I would like to do the MCC/JOC part as soon as possible in Europe. If anyone could help me tips and advices pls. Reviewing the posts the pilots mostly said the Simtech(but the recent post did not say too much good), Cocki4u, VA.
I read about the Cardiff Aviation with the FFS 747, or BAA seems ok too. Cardiff has quick course and normal, which has time difference but for example the Wizz requests the full 16 hours course. Anyone about this? Is that really important to do these on a FFS or doing these on a FNPT is just fine? Could you tell me the big difference between these? I know the FFS moves like the real one and FNPT is fixed, im looking for answer which could describe me for example the handling difference, little things etc.
Like everyone else I have the same dilemma: doing it on an Airbus, or Boeing? Finishing the courses on the bus and later applying for a RYR sim check? How did you solve this problem? After the airbus paying for a fixed Boeing sim XXeuro/hour in a plaza?
Im not rich, but i would like to pay for the quality of the training. I can not afford the CAE which works double (or triple) than the other organisations. Are they really good for that money, are they really the best? Hmm..
Anyway, I am happy to read your answers, tips and advices.
Thank you, Good day!
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Thank you for your quick answers. I check the Sky4u but I found Sim4u and Cockpit4u as well based in Berlin. What are the differences between them? I found that the Sky4U uses the Sim4U simulators but i can not find how the Cockpit4u is related to the previous two. Cockpit4u has a training centre in Frankfurt that is a bit better for me than Berlin(distance).
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Thank you for your answer. Do you have any information about the Cockpit4U organisation?
de minimus non curat lex
Just be aware that EASA has a higher MCC qualification ~ APSMCC (GM3 FCL735.A) which formalises the jet training element of JOC. It may well be that a good provider will already cover all the elements, but their Regulator needs to approve their APS MCC course before a new style certificate is issued.
For the avoidance of doubt, the APSMCC course is not just an attendance course. There is a minimum standard required for APSMCC certification. For those who unfortunately do not meet the standard, they will be issued with a MCC (only) certificate. Hardly a ringing endorsement when the provider is APSMCC approved.
Those who achieve a marginal pass will still struggle on the sim ride. At present the APSMCC course is a PASS/FAIL situation, although grading occurs during all the exercises. Might be worthwhile keeping a copy?
Ryanair amongst others look more favourably on this new qualification when inviting you commence their selection process. Still the need to demonstrate to any employer that you know your stuff.
For the avoidance of doubt, the APSMCC course is not just an attendance course. There is a minimum standard required for APSMCC certification. For those who unfortunately do not meet the standard, they will be issued with a MCC (only) certificate. Hardly a ringing endorsement when the provider is APSMCC approved.
Those who achieve a marginal pass will still struggle on the sim ride. At present the APSMCC course is a PASS/FAIL situation, although grading occurs during all the exercises. Might be worthwhile keeping a copy?
Ryanair amongst others look more favourably on this new qualification when inviting you commence their selection process. Still the need to demonstrate to any employer that you know your stuff.
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Just be aware that EASA has a higher MCC qualification ~ APSMCC (GM3 FCL735.A) which formalises the jet training element of JOC. It may well be that a good provider will already cover all the elements, but their Regulator needs to approve their APS MCC course before a new style certificate is issued.
For the avoidance of doubt, the APSMCC course is not just an attendance course. There is a minimum standard required for APSMCC certification. For those who unfortunately do not meet the standard, they will be issued with a MCC (only) certificate. Hardly a ringing endorsement when the provider is APSMCC approved.
Those who achieve a marginal pass will still struggle on the sim ride. At present the APSMCC course is a PASS/FAIL situation, although grading occurs during all the exercises. Might be worthwhile keeping a copy?
Ryanair amongst others look more favourably on this new qualification when inviting you commence their selection process. Still the need to demonstrate to any employer that you know your stuff.
For the avoidance of doubt, the APSMCC course is not just an attendance course. There is a minimum standard required for APSMCC certification. For those who unfortunately do not meet the standard, they will be issued with a MCC (only) certificate. Hardly a ringing endorsement when the provider is APSMCC approved.
Those who achieve a marginal pass will still struggle on the sim ride. At present the APSMCC course is a PASS/FAIL situation, although grading occurs during all the exercises. Might be worthwhile keeping a copy?
Ryanair amongst others look more favourably on this new qualification when inviting you commence their selection process. Still the need to demonstrate to any employer that you know your stuff.
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You can do/get invited for RYR interview without the MCC (as long as you get it before the TR) no JOC was requested/needed during the interview.
Do not spend more than 5k.
Do not spend more than 5k.
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If you cannot afford a reputable provider, STOP now, as you will not afford the type course !
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Unless you have some multi crew experience (MCC) you are probably wasting your time & your hard earned money.
Ask those who have completed a MCC course before accepting AIRGUS advice.
