Virgin MPL 2017
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No, seniority shouldn't be affected because you joined as a cadet. A DEFO who joined after you should be lower in seniority. Alas, I don't work for Virgin and don't know how they will work it, but would be very surprised if your seniority as a cadet was also penalised.
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Good to see topics being teased out for discussion.
Just wanted to check my understanding. After completing line training you then become a FO with Virgin (but on a reduced salary) ?
How many hours do you need to become an SFO with Virgin?
Just wondering if it's just pay that is limited until the 9 years mark when you move onto a FO pay scale or if it's all the other elements too.
Just wanted to check my understanding. After completing line training you then become a FO with Virgin (but on a reduced salary) ?
How many hours do you need to become an SFO with Virgin?
Just wondering if it's just pay that is limited until the 9 years mark when you move onto a FO pay scale or if it's all the other elements too.
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I could be wrong but i'll try help with the little knowledge that i do have ...
1 - You will become a second officer from what i've been told. You will then rise to first officer after a certain amount of time and experience. You will be on a reduced salary for 9 years, at which point you then get the regular year one FO contract/salary (despite having been an FO for a number of years prior).
2 - It will be very tough to get that info here unless someone has spoken to Virgin or an employee directly to gain such knowledge, even then you would be given a time frame that would be subject to a number of variables, like most things in aviation are. Though SFO isn't really a position you would want to aspire to, that is command. I was previously of the impression that you were FO - SFO then CPT. Apparently not is what I've learnt in my airline (and it would certainly appear to be other airlines too from other colleagues elsewhere). If you end up as an SFO there is generally a reason for it and it isn't a good one.
3 - By "all the other elements" I will presume you mean gaining command etc. I should think they wouldbe limited up till year 9 (or such is the current plan at least) if they are only giving you a year 1DE FO contract at that point. If you got your command in year 9 you wouldn't be receiving that contract I would imagine.
Hopefully that helps somewhat,
1 - You will become a second officer from what i've been told. You will then rise to first officer after a certain amount of time and experience. You will be on a reduced salary for 9 years, at which point you then get the regular year one FO contract/salary (despite having been an FO for a number of years prior).
2 - It will be very tough to get that info here unless someone has spoken to Virgin or an employee directly to gain such knowledge, even then you would be given a time frame that would be subject to a number of variables, like most things in aviation are. Though SFO isn't really a position you would want to aspire to, that is command. I was previously of the impression that you were FO - SFO then CPT. Apparently not is what I've learnt in my airline (and it would certainly appear to be other airlines too from other colleagues elsewhere). If you end up as an SFO there is generally a reason for it and it isn't a good one.
3 - By "all the other elements" I will presume you mean gaining command etc. I should think they wouldbe limited up till year 9 (or such is the current plan at least) if they are only giving you a year 1DE FO contract at that point. If you got your command in year 9 you wouldn't be receiving that contract I would imagine.
Hopefully that helps somewhat,
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Cheers @momo95 for the insight. Like you said I will have to ask Virgin to get the facts but appreciate the input 
. Just trying to understand what the career progression prospects are.
. Just trying to understand what the career progression prospects are.
Last edited by Speedbird148; 4th Nov 2016 at 11:17.
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I see it was mentioned earlier in the post but does anybody know when you will start getting paid by Virgin? Might help a few people to know so they can work out if it would be feasible to not have any incomings for a certain amount of time.
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Some serious food for thought...
So 9 years on a low salary, gaining small increments until year 9 when you go onto a full year 1 DEFO contract..
A ball park figure of 800 hrs a year, over 9 years, equals 7200hrs. I'm guessing anyone with this amount of time would be well on their way to a captains job?
On the face of it, it does not look that good of a deal as it first appears. I think this sponsored scheme is aimed at an age group of 18-25, and not really the older generation. Most people over that age might struggle as we're more likely to be married with a family?
It's a good way to the RHS of a career airline, somewhere where you could possibly never leave? But make sure you go in with your eyes open, lots to think about if the above figures are correct.
If you have the time, (for comparison) a friend is going to start line flying after completing the BAFPP. He came out with a f-ATPL and a full time year 1 FO contract on completion.
So 9 years on a low salary, gaining small increments until year 9 when you go onto a full year 1 DEFO contract..
A ball park figure of 800 hrs a year, over 9 years, equals 7200hrs. I'm guessing anyone with this amount of time would be well on their way to a captains job?
On the face of it, it does not look that good of a deal as it first appears. I think this sponsored scheme is aimed at an age group of 18-25, and not really the older generation. Most people over that age might struggle as we're more likely to be married with a family?
It's a good way to the RHS of a career airline, somewhere where you could possibly never leave? But make sure you go in with your eyes open, lots to think about if the above figures are correct.
If you have the time, (for comparison) a friend is going to start line flying after completing the BAFPP. He came out with a f-ATPL and a full time year 1 FO contract on completion.
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I applied for the MPL last year, the people who are on it are all over 20 years old, and a couple are ex cabin crew I believe. Its not to say this year they don't want younger generation people however?
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A ball park figure of 800 hrs a year, over 9 years, equals 7200hrs. I'm guessing anyone with this amount of time would be well on their way to a captains job?
Could be wrong but i imagine once starting with Virgin you'll be a SFO for a few years filling in those gaps until a FO position opens up and then you will start with 0 hours. This is risky as normally the min requirement for applying with other airlines is 1,500 hours and you may not reach that for many years.
Last edited by onespeeed; 7th Nov 2016 at 08:49. Reason: Typo correction
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It would be very interesting to find out if this is the case...
Lots of interesting thoughts on the scheme which is to be expected...
SFO/FO/? Some definitions... FO is a First Officer (2 stripes), SFO is a Senior First Officer (3 stripes). Though this is essentially arbitrary, you could be called SO for Second Officer (2 stripes) or FO for First Officer (3 stripes), the only difference is what the name badge says. You start as a First Officer, not a second officer, you are a fully qualified co pilot on the A330.
Virgin A330s do not have secondary 'cruise' type pilots, indeed none of their fleets do. If ever it goes above 8 hours then you just get another co pilot. Cathay are pretty much the only airline left that have cruise first officers anymore as they are so limited in what they can do.
You wear two stripes when you join as an FO simply due to the low number of hours WITH THE COMPANY you have, the same way as many airlines do. This has nothing to do with duties, qualifications etc. After a few years and hitting the threshold for SFO (Senior First Officer), you get the third stripe, just as would happen with direct entry pilots.
To suggest that by doing the MPL you come out with an inferior license is a pretty hard argument to make, its the same job in the same jet, just a slightly different route.
Another slight error from above, if you do the BAFPP you get an ATPL (again not that it really matters) but you do go onto a reduced pay scale for the first 7 years of employment - you do not join on a regular FO contract.
There are people currently on the programme who have just finished school, just finished uni, early 20s as well as those with more life experience. If you have what they want they will take anyone at any age.
Originally Posted by onespeed
Mu understanding is that airlines have a SFO for long haul flights to provide rest periods for the Captain and FO. My guess is that these positions are hard to fill so Virgin has launched this programme to fill in the gaps and also lower their costs of manning 3 pilots to all long haul flights. SFO positions will be hard to fill as you're never in control during take off and landing and also most airlines do not count SFO hours.
Could be wrong but i imagine once starting with Virgin you'll be a SFO for a few years filling in those gaps until a FO positions and then you will start with 0 hours. This is risky as normally the min requirement for applying with other airlines is 1,500 hours and you may not reach that for many years.
Could be wrong but i imagine once starting with Virgin you'll be a SFO for a few years filling in those gaps until a FO positions and then you will start with 0 hours. This is risky as normally the min requirement for applying with other airlines is 1,500 hours and you may not reach that for many years.
Virgin A330s do not have secondary 'cruise' type pilots, indeed none of their fleets do. If ever it goes above 8 hours then you just get another co pilot. Cathay are pretty much the only airline left that have cruise first officers anymore as they are so limited in what they can do.
You wear two stripes when you join as an FO simply due to the low number of hours WITH THE COMPANY you have, the same way as many airlines do. This has nothing to do with duties, qualifications etc. After a few years and hitting the threshold for SFO (Senior First Officer), you get the third stripe, just as would happen with direct entry pilots.
To suggest that by doing the MPL you come out with an inferior license is a pretty hard argument to make, its the same job in the same jet, just a slightly different route.
Originally Posted by Andy148
If you have the time, (for comparison) a friend is going to start line flying after completing the BAFPP. He came out with a f-ATPL and a full time year 1 FO contract on completion.
Originally Posted by NatHiscocks
I applied for the MPL last year, the people who are on it are all over 20 years old, and a couple are ex cabin crew I believe. Its not to say this year they don't want younger generation people however?
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Well to be fair VA have not exactly been very open about the terms of loan, repayment plan and salary... Most of the information circulating around here is snippets from past cadets or VA staff that to be honest is still not that clear.
It is just a guess but I think it makes sense.Why put a cadet into the right seat when that means you have to go out and recruit an experienced pilot -- for 70k a year -- to be a SO.
It is just a guess but I think it makes sense.Why put a cadet into the right seat when that means you have to go out and recruit an experienced pilot -- for 70k a year -- to be a SO.
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Spoke to some of the cadets at the open day, few bits of useful info:
- it's an incremental pay scale which transitions across to the equivalent year 10 scale of a DE pilot after completion of the 9 years
- You start as an FO
- 12 places
- apparently corporate sponsorship is available for loans
Hope that clears things up, good luck everybody
- it's an incremental pay scale which transitions across to the equivalent year 10 scale of a DE pilot after completion of the 9 years
- You start as an FO
- 12 places
- apparently corporate sponsorship is available for loans
Hope that clears things up, good luck everybody
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Overall on balance it sounds like a great scheme. I see lots of posts about the employment being for 9 years on a reduced FO salary and then getting onto a DEFO salary. Not sure if this is correct but what is stopping an FO building a say 2500 hours over say 3 years and then leaving Virgin to take at DEFO salary in another airline. Yes, you would forfeit your bond repayments but the DEFO salaries if competitive at other airlines would offset this amount? Or are cadets legally tied to Virgin for the 9 year period and leaving the scheme would incur financial penalty?
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Virgin A330s do not have secondary 'cruise' type pilots, indeed none of their fleets do. If ever it goes above 8 hours then you just get another co pilot. Cathay are pretty much the only airline left that have cruise first officers anymore as they are so limited in what they can do.
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Overall on balance it sounds like a great scheme. I see lots of posts about the employment being for 9 years on a reduced FO salary and then getting onto a DEFO salary. Not sure if this is correct but what is stopping an FO building a say 2500 hours over say 3 years and then leaving Virgin to take at DEFO salary in another airline. Yes, you would forfeit your bond repayments but the DEFO salaries if competitive at other airlines would offset this amount? Or are cadets legally tied to Virgin for the 9 year period and leaving the scheme would incur financial penalty?
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Ok makes sense... I've been on 2 long haul flights with VA this year and have seen 3 pilots on each (one flight was 11.5 hours to Shanghai). Maybe this was because they were cadets. They all looked to be at least late 40s though .... At least that gives hope to some of the older applicants amongst us! 