easyJet 2016
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Do you know if this depends on school? I'm trying to find out myself but receiving conflicting info, a guy i know doing QR wings said he flew 100 hrs. Whereas MPL info elsewhere suggests less, is it an airline thing maybe?
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Extremely well said Officer Kite. Your past couple of posts have been absolutely spot on in my opinion. Been a while since I've read these threads but anyone looking to start training without a sponsorship would do very well to read and seriously consider Officer kites posts. While it worked out for me and a good number of course mates, equally a few good friends now 4 years out of flight school are suffering serious financial and personal problems because the 100k gamble didn't work out... and yes we went to a 'big' school. 
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No idea. You'd have to ask someone at Oxford/FTE.
The MPL's at CTC are scheduled to be 75 hours real. About 25 DA42 sim. So total time 100 hours.
Barely anyone keeps to course minimums, 10-15 more than this isn't unusual.
The MPL's at CTC are scheduled to be 75 hours real. About 25 DA42 sim. So total time 100 hours.
Barely anyone keeps to course minimums, 10-15 more than this isn't unusual.
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Officer Kite,
Please read again the first line of my post where I say I would be the first one to jump on an airline sponsored scheme if I was eligible (please read- not eligible to apply!) - I am not trashing them at all, nor do I think it is entirely fair to trash integrated white tail schemes when their value is proven. Sponsored is not the only way - it should be - but it isn't.
Im not going to comment on the sections of your post that I disagree with as you are entitled to your opinion and I mine and I don't want to debate.
One point however,
Having spent the last decade working in an extremely complex field, your lesson in percentages was not required. The schools total number statistics are available and are very, very easy to obtain , as you say that includes everyone (inc sponsorships) and thus the actual results are easy to deduce. As you say they are never perfect but life seldom is.
Best of luck to you.
Please read again the first line of my post where I say I would be the first one to jump on an airline sponsored scheme if I was eligible (please read- not eligible to apply!) - I am not trashing them at all, nor do I think it is entirely fair to trash integrated white tail schemes when their value is proven. Sponsored is not the only way - it should be - but it isn't.
Im not going to comment on the sections of your post that I disagree with as you are entitled to your opinion and I mine and I don't want to debate.
One point however,
Having spent the last decade working in an extremely complex field, your lesson in percentages was not required. The schools total number statistics are available and are very, very easy to obtain , as you say that includes everyone (inc sponsorships) and thus the actual results are easy to deduce. As you say they are never perfect but life seldom is.
Best of luck to you.
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And further to my last you can also use the numbers from the Airlines own sponsorship schemes to work out who went where.
For example in the last year OAA provided more than twice as many people to EZY as there were sponsored positions in existance.
again like you say may change with time but its looking good at the moment for everyone
For example in the last year OAA provided more than twice as many people to EZY as there were sponsored positions in existance.
again like you say may change with time but its looking good at the moment for everyone
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Sara, I think the "white tail" scheme is just a way of them dressing-up the idea of simply applying to Easyjet once you've finished your training, with a self-funded type-rating. A large number of CTC and OAA graduates get into Easyjet that way.
There were rumours going around that if you get exceptional results in ground school at CTC or OAA, then Easyjet can cherry-pick you and give you the option of switching to their MPL or course, or continuing on your ATPL course as a tagged student. These are pathways two and three on the OAA website. A lad in my class called the powers that be to ask for more details about the scheme of being tagged by Easyjet post-GS, and they confirmed that it is definitely happening, but you must have applied, and have been unsuccessful for an Easyjet MPL course. So pretty much, pathways two and three are only available for those who failed Easyjet MPL selection, and were offered an ATPL course instead by CTC or OAA.
Far be it from me to make it into a tagged versus self-sponsored argument, but the only people I know who went to a top school, and struggled to find a job are people with multiple EASA failures, and, or were unable to apply themselves in interviews, not being able to fit the bill of what an airline "wants". The rest were, and are being mopped-up by the budget airlines very quickly, Easyjet making-up a large majority. So from what I've seen, a tagged scheme isn't necessarily the only way to go, although I do agree to some extent with what Officer Kite says, i.e taking a massive gamble if you're not capable. Sadly, there are some people on my course who are getting very poor results, and genuinely aren't cut out for it, to which you have to wonder who on earth would employ them.
There were rumours going around that if you get exceptional results in ground school at CTC or OAA, then Easyjet can cherry-pick you and give you the option of switching to their MPL or course, or continuing on your ATPL course as a tagged student. These are pathways two and three on the OAA website. A lad in my class called the powers that be to ask for more details about the scheme of being tagged by Easyjet post-GS, and they confirmed that it is definitely happening, but you must have applied, and have been unsuccessful for an Easyjet MPL course. So pretty much, pathways two and three are only available for those who failed Easyjet MPL selection, and were offered an ATPL course instead by CTC or OAA.
Far be it from me to make it into a tagged versus self-sponsored argument, but the only people I know who went to a top school, and struggled to find a job are people with multiple EASA failures, and, or were unable to apply themselves in interviews, not being able to fit the bill of what an airline "wants". The rest were, and are being mopped-up by the budget airlines very quickly, Easyjet making-up a large majority. So from what I've seen, a tagged scheme isn't necessarily the only way to go, although I do agree to some extent with what Officer Kite says, i.e taking a massive gamble if you're not capable. Sadly, there are some people on my course who are getting very poor results, and genuinely aren't cut out for it, to which you have to wonder who on earth would employ them.
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Officer kite is pretty much spot on.
In my time I saw several people that were let go during training at all stages, sometimes for as little as 5 extra hours pre solo, or a few bad sims. Similarly people reached the end of training on the ATPL scheme and were told they were not eligible for certain airlines due to performance/scores.
I am fairly certain that figures of employment rates only include those that finished training with scores/performance above a certain level (allowing eligibility for all airlines) and that successful employment could include you going on to work as a flight instructor having paid for you own rating post training.
People need to be aware that nothing is guaranteed and that the schools are indeed businesses that are very well marketed. Once you are in you are just a number that can either gain the company money if you reach a certain standard that they can then sell on to an airline or be expelled, left or dropped if not.
In my time I saw several people that were let go during training at all stages, sometimes for as little as 5 extra hours pre solo, or a few bad sims. Similarly people reached the end of training on the ATPL scheme and were told they were not eligible for certain airlines due to performance/scores.
I am fairly certain that figures of employment rates only include those that finished training with scores/performance above a certain level (allowing eligibility for all airlines) and that successful employment could include you going on to work as a flight instructor having paid for you own rating post training.
People need to be aware that nothing is guaranteed and that the schools are indeed businesses that are very well marketed. Once you are in you are just a number that can either gain the company money if you reach a certain standard that they can then sell on to an airline or be expelled, left or dropped if not.
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Hi all,
I have question I would like to put out in the open.
I've been offered Route 2: EZY MPL Upgrade. I was hoping to get MPL to start with but not the case. So I asked OAA what criteria is required for the upgrade to MPL after the ground school(?). They said it is based on EZY discretion and assessed in individual basis. This indicate there is huge chance I may end up route 3 regardless of my GS results.
This leaves me with some doubts whether I should be reconsidering the option to enroll as this doesn't seem very different than the Whitetail - which is £135K and no job assured.
Anyone else in the same shoes?
I have question I would like to put out in the open.
I've been offered Route 2: EZY MPL Upgrade. I was hoping to get MPL to start with but not the case. So I asked OAA what criteria is required for the upgrade to MPL after the ground school(?). They said it is based on EZY discretion and assessed in individual basis. This indicate there is huge chance I may end up route 3 regardless of my GS results.
This leaves me with some doubts whether I should be reconsidering the option to enroll as this doesn't seem very different than the Whitetail - which is £135K and no job assured.
Anyone else in the same shoes?
FL711
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Exactly, which makes the comments on route 2/3 a little harsh. Those routes also lead to the same place at the end of the course, albeit more expensive, than route 1.
In fact I'd rather have more time flying than in the simulators.
In fact I'd rather have more time flying than in the simulators.
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Flying saucepan i pm'd you, think it may have gone to your email, was the only option it gave me
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No one knows ... the school even say they don't know when questioned.
It's not just what's required of the cadet though, you can achieve all the grades but then be told there aren't any more spaces to do the MPL. OAA told me directly that any upgrade is based on there being the training capacity available for extra MPL cadets.
It's not just what's required of the cadet though, you can achieve all the grades but then be told there aren't any more spaces to do the MPL. OAA told me directly that any upgrade is based on there being the training capacity available for extra MPL cadets.
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Though I have previously disagreed with people on here before about white tail/MPL I dont think we would disagree on this point.. If you are told that you are route two or three approach the entire process like you are doing a white tail scheme (mind set and decision making I mean)
I would definitely not let Easy and CTC/OAA convince you that you're pretty much a shoe in later down the line. The risk is entirely yours. If I was corporate I would be selling the alternate route "upgrade" scheme as much as I could because it plays down the risk while keeping the hope high! In essence all it means is that you can sit the pilot selection earlier than your course mates and in the case of route two save a few bucks (but why would they hand out route twos instead of threes it makes no sense from a business standpoint)
Be careful, sure I am going white tail but I am under no illusion to what that means!
*also 135k FL711? where is that number from? its a bit steep the course is only 88 plus 25-30 for a TR (remember MCC and JOC are included in the white tail course). Or are you just rounding up with living expenses?
Good Luck
I would definitely not let Easy and CTC/OAA convince you that you're pretty much a shoe in later down the line. The risk is entirely yours. If I was corporate I would be selling the alternate route "upgrade" scheme as much as I could because it plays down the risk while keeping the hope high! In essence all it means is that you can sit the pilot selection earlier than your course mates and in the case of route two save a few bucks (but why would they hand out route twos instead of threes it makes no sense from a business standpoint)
Be careful, sure I am going white tail but I am under no illusion to what that means!
*also 135k FL711? where is that number from? its a bit steep the course is only 88 plus 25-30 for a TR (remember MCC and JOC are included in the white tail course). Or are you just rounding up with living expenses?
Good Luck
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I would definitely not let Easy and CTC/OAA convince you that you're pretty much a shoe in later down the line. The risk is entirely yours. If I was corporate I would be selling the alternate route "upgrade" scheme as much as I could because it plays down the risk while keeping the hope high! In essence all it means is that you can sit the pilot selection earlier than your course mates and in the case of route two save a few bucks
The line from all of them is that on route 3 you have already been selected by easyJet. If you hadn't have been you would have been rejected from all routes and offered the chance to re-apply on whitetail as has happened to some people. Therefore they say your easyJet employment prospect is no worse than someone who got offered the MPL, the only differences are in the training, licensing and cost. There is no further 'pilot selection' for easyJet employment that you do on route 3 at all, you're already in the door as much as for the MPL (assuming of course you don't fail!).
The rationale they give for routes 2 and 3 existing at all is that it's essentially a confidence level. Firstly they consider whether you met easyJet's hiring criteria. Then they decide if they have a high enough level of confidence in you to do the accelerated course, in which case you'll get the MPL. If you get past the easyJet hiring criteria hurdle but they have a lower level of confidence in your training ability, you'll get routes 2 or 3. That is how it was explained to me.
If you believe that is incorrect then it would mean CTC have crossed the line from vagueness to directly lying to my face.
Last edited by m585; 19th Jan 2017 at 09:53.