Wizzair
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Rumor has it that a zoom meeting has leaked costing some heads/managers so far. Many subjects were discussed during this meeting like a matrix on how to choose who should be let go and based on what reasons, further salary cuts, etc.
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Dubai, once... now London
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aviationvictim
The majority of redundant captains and FOs are working jobs where they make a quarter of their previous airline pilot salary, operators know that, so why on earth should they offer more money ? As of today and the foreseeable future pilot's bargaining power is close to zero.
The majority of redundant captains and FOs are working jobs where they make a quarter of their previous airline pilot salary, operators know that, so why on earth should they offer more money ? As of today and the foreseeable future pilot's bargaining power is close to zero.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: ??-ask crewing
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History tells us a surplus turns to a desperate shortage very very quickly, and while I fully support pilots accepting big pay cuts, when the boots on the other foot, they MUST MUST MUST either walk away to a competitor, or demand a massive pay deal to prevent them doing so (and compensate for the bad times).
And when that deal is assessed by the pilot, inevitably the behaviour of the airline during the bad times will be remembered, so airlines which think they are saving a bundle by slashing pay, will only lose it later by having to pay more when pilots are rare as rocking horse
. So for example, given an offer from both wizz and easy, I would in future need the wizz package to be about 25% above easy, because I now know that come the bad times, the wizz pay will crumble away in a second.
And when that deal is assessed by the pilot, inevitably the behaviour of the airline during the bad times will be remembered, so airlines which think they are saving a bundle by slashing pay, will only lose it later by having to pay more when pilots are rare as rocking horse
. So for example, given an offer from both wizz and easy, I would in future need the wizz package to be about 25% above easy, because I now know that come the bad times, the wizz pay will crumble away in a second.
Join Date: Aug 2016
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Improvement in T&Cs is due in two situations - whenever the company needs to attract new employees (by convincing them to quit their jobs in other companies) and whenever retention of the present employees becomes problematic (obviously because there are other, better opportunities out there and people are moving onto them in large numbers).
Which of those is the case now? Neither, unfortunately. Therefore, any improvement is off the cards until numerous other opportunities come up, absorb most of those thousands on the dole or in low-paid non-flying jobs now and provide better alternatives for present employees. As things stand now, those who still have their jobs will be clinging onto them for dear life and those who are out of jobs will sign up for literally everything. Not exactly an environment conductive to pay increase.
Which of those is the case now? Neither, unfortunately. Therefore, any improvement is off the cards until numerous other opportunities come up, absorb most of those thousands on the dole or in low-paid non-flying jobs now and provide better alternatives for present employees. As things stand now, those who still have their jobs will be clinging onto them for dear life and those who are out of jobs will sign up for literally everything. Not exactly an environment conductive to pay increase.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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I'm not talking about now. I think a pilot crunch could be sooner than you think, maybe two years, plus about 6 to 12 months for that realisation to be reflected in pay. I know first hand that at least a couple of big airlines have kept their pilots on the books, not because they are feeling charitable, but because they can see a crewing shortage looming very soon. I personally think wizz will regret letting their true colours being shown.
The paycuts everyone seem so eager to accept are permanent and you’ll never see pay levels rise again. Especially in a non-unionised Eastern European company. Wizz will come out of this crisis stronger than ever with a workforce cheaper than ever. This of course undermines all airline jobs in Europe as everyone’s scrambling to keep up with the ultra low cost idea. It’s never-ending.
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Yes, a pay/demand equilibrium does require that pilots are willing to relocate - if Wizz is the only show in town, and the pilots are a captive market, then can pay whatever they want (to a point where pilots decide no longer to be pilots or relocate). But in places like Luton, there are normally many many options for pilots, and accordingly, the Wizz Luton terms were not that different to easyJet (and wizz had a much more reasonable type rating scheme)
Join Date: Aug 2016
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Willingness to relocate (or lack thereof) is what allows Wizz to run their show however they please across the Eastern European bases where they are often the only carrier who has a crew base in the city/country (or one of two or maximum three carriers). Local pilots aren't exactly spoiled for choice if they want to work out of their home city - and many spend a couple of years in different bases, waiting for their turn to be relocated to their home town. If they're happy to accept whatever Wizz have to offer as long as they're at home every night - well, everyone has their priorities.
The more interesting case studies will be the Western European bases. As Sick rightly mentioned, the London area is an example of a place where multiple employment opportunities are available in normal times. That's where things will get interesting whenever the market picks up. Either the conditions in Western Europe will be a long way better than in Eastern Europe - or there will be a prevailing presence of inexperienced guys ready to take everything to get a foot in the door and high staff turnover in Western Europe.
The more interesting case studies will be the Western European bases. As Sick rightly mentioned, the London area is an example of a place where multiple employment opportunities are available in normal times. That's where things will get interesting whenever the market picks up. Either the conditions in Western Europe will be a long way better than in Eastern Europe - or there will be a prevailing presence of inexperienced guys ready to take everything to get a foot in the door and high staff turnover in Western Europe.
Join Date: May 2020
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It doesn’t matter how much the conditions change in the future in this company.
They show their real face. At the beginning they will continue having applications but as someone said let’s see in a few months.
everybody has a friend of a friend that knows the history behind the 265 pilots fired in April without reason and without transparency.
Their reputation between the collective of pilots is really bad. And most of Western Europe pilots that were working for other big LCC still working.
I spoke sometimes with other pilots from that companies, non of them has the intention at all to go and fly for Wizzair because all of them has heard about the company and what they did.
They show their real face. At the beginning they will continue having applications but as someone said let’s see in a few months.
everybody has a friend of a friend that knows the history behind the 265 pilots fired in April without reason and without transparency.
Their reputation between the collective of pilots is really bad. And most of Western Europe pilots that were working for other big LCC still working.
I spoke sometimes with other pilots from that companies, non of them has the intention at all to go and fly for Wizzair because all of them has heard about the company and what they did.
Join Date: Apr 2016
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Pearlharbour
I can confirm this...middle east behavior towards to employees and violating law obligations by not paying severance pay to employees who were redundant in Eastern European countries on local contract. Crew was advised not to sue airline in order to be invited back as soon as situation improves. At the end same crew members were refused few months later with no explanation... You don't judge airlines only by redundancies but also how do they behave after they lay off pilots. There is no obligation to keep someone in the company but to avoid to give them something they should legally get...
I can confirm this...middle east behavior towards to employees and violating law obligations by not paying severance pay to employees who were redundant in Eastern European countries on local contract. Crew was advised not to sue airline in order to be invited back as soon as situation improves. At the end same crew members were refused few months later with no explanation... You don't judge airlines only by redundancies but also how do they behave after they lay off pilots. There is no obligation to keep someone in the company but to avoid to give them something they should legally get...
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Ryanair did undergo a massive change/shift in their attitude towards pilots. It wasn't always a one way street with pilots bending over. Lifestyle is sometimes worth it's measure in gold, salary figures become not so important. That's what Ryanair gave people in the end. Wizzair will need to do the same especially in Britain, and especially post-Brexit. They can't ignore union recognition in all countries and they wont be the only carrier hiring 2022 and beyond.
Join Date: Aug 2016
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But at what cost did the change of attitude come to Ryanair? At the cost of many, many resignations and a massive staff turnover rate. Ryanair only became an appealing career-type airline some 5-6 years ago or thereabout. Not because they were feeling charitable, but because, after some point, growth and development become impossible without having a critical mass of loyal employees who have been trained in-house, have company-relevant experience and pursue long-term growth within the company. The price to pay for that? Surprise, surprise - not treating people in such a way that they become desperate to jump ships the very moment they have a chance to!
Join Date: May 2020
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PilotLZ
Exactly. I think it was summer 2017 when they did a big disaster and O’Leary said we had a confusion with the holidays of our pilots. They canceled thousands and thousands of flights and the stocks of the company drop A LOT!.
O’leary learned that lesson and as a result they changed. Varadi never had similar situation in the company, that is why his behavior is different.
Exactly. I think it was summer 2017 when they did a big disaster and O’Leary said we had a confusion with the holidays of our pilots. They canceled thousands and thousands of flights and the stocks of the company drop A LOT!.
O’leary learned that lesson and as a result they changed. Varadi never had similar situation in the company, that is why his behavior is different.
Join Date: Jan 2020
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Post covid people will accept ANYTHING to go back to a flightdeck unless in the mean time they find a job that pays more money and offers a better lifestyle = unlikely for 90% of us.
Join Date: Aug 2016
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Yes, but that likely won't last forever. And here lies the big difference between the old and the current Ryanair approaches towards staff: thinking about the day after today and the day after tomorrow. With vaccines at the doorstep, the market will no longer be in dire straits in another 2-3 years. With the amount of flying normally done with a LCC, today's cadet will be a Captain in 4-5 years, an instructor in 7-8 years, an examiner in 10 years or so. Throughout this development cycle, aviation will usually go through some sort of major crisis and a couple of recovery years after it. How do you ensure that, when things pick up, your company will still be those people's primary choice and desired field of further professional development? Consistently providing decent treatment instead of acting solely as an hour-building facility for better places was the solution which Ryanair adopted. And it certainly did work.
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Cardiff Base
https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/artic...ntingency-plan
whatever you may think of the company, this is good news for Cardiff and the customers in Wales and the south west
whatever you may think of the company, this is good news for Cardiff and the customers in Wales and the south west