CTC or CAEOAA
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CTC or CAEOAA
So I'm looking to apply to CTC or CAE in the near future.
Has anyone got any useful information about which they think would be better, or even any cadets at either who can give advice on how they chose where they are.
Thanks!
P.S. I know people are going to say don't bother with either, go modular etc. but really I just want the question answering
Has anyone got any useful information about which they think would be better, or even any cadets at either who can give advice on how they chose where they are.
Thanks!
P.S. I know people are going to say don't bother with either, go modular etc. but really I just want the question answering
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Hello there!
I am in the same boat as you where in the near future, I will be applying to either CTC or OAA (or both).
In a quest to find which FTO I would feel would be a better fit for me, I thought it would be a great idea to visit both Flight Academies and speak with some instructors, current students, and also get a general opinion on their facilities.
This past April, while on a trip to the UK, I had the chance of having a tour around CTC's training facility at Bournemouth Airport, and also visiting Oxford's "Airline Pilot Career Day". I personally feel that in order to truly get an impression on which school you would like to attend, a visit would be a top priority as I gained a lot of information from my visits to both schools!
An important note to keep in mind while deciding on which flight school to attend is that both Academies offer top-notch and highly regarded training for future pilots, meaning that there will not be a "wrong" choice as upon completion of either Integrated ATPL program, all successful cadets will finish with a f-ATPL, possible interviews with airlines, and a reputation behind the FTO that you completed your training with.
After my visit to both Flight Academies, here is a brief list of some of the benefits of attending either school:
CTC Wings
-A fleet of (relatively) new and reliable Diamond aircraft, most of which are equipped with G1000 avionics (Newer DA-40's based in Phoenix and all DA-42 Twinstars).
-Accommodation is provided at all stages of training(which is shared between 3 other course-mates), including housing in the UK (Southampton and Bournemouth), Phoenix, and Hamilton in New Zealand.
-A choice (Depending on demand Vs. space available and start of course date) between completing the Basic and Intermediate flight training stages in either Phoenix, Arizona or Hamilton, New Zealand.
Oxford Aviation Academy
-CAE Oxford has recently ordered a brand new fleet of 35 Piper Aircraft in a five year program to replace aging Piper Archers/Warriors/Senecas.
-All phases of training are located at a maximum of two Airports, including London-Oxford Airport and Falcon Field Airport in Arizona (Helps with familiarizing aerodrome-specific procedures).
-Accommodation provided in Advanced stages of training in Arizona, however accommodation is limited back in the UK and is based on a first come-first serve basis, resulting in many cadets that do not locally live in Oxford having to rent out flats located close to the airport.
All in all both Flight Training Organizations are some of the best training that is offered around the world, and with highly regarded reputations, you cannot go wrong with selecting either academy.
Lastly, I cannot stress how important it is to take time to visit both FTO's and talk to the instructors/cadets and have a tour of their facilities as this has also helped me in leaning towards one over the other. It will greatly help you in deciding which FTO to ultimately complete your training with. Good luck!
If you want any further information, feel free to private-message me :-)
Kindest Regards
I am in the same boat as you where in the near future, I will be applying to either CTC or OAA (or both).
In a quest to find which FTO I would feel would be a better fit for me, I thought it would be a great idea to visit both Flight Academies and speak with some instructors, current students, and also get a general opinion on their facilities.
This past April, while on a trip to the UK, I had the chance of having a tour around CTC's training facility at Bournemouth Airport, and also visiting Oxford's "Airline Pilot Career Day". I personally feel that in order to truly get an impression on which school you would like to attend, a visit would be a top priority as I gained a lot of information from my visits to both schools!
An important note to keep in mind while deciding on which flight school to attend is that both Academies offer top-notch and highly regarded training for future pilots, meaning that there will not be a "wrong" choice as upon completion of either Integrated ATPL program, all successful cadets will finish with a f-ATPL, possible interviews with airlines, and a reputation behind the FTO that you completed your training with.
After my visit to both Flight Academies, here is a brief list of some of the benefits of attending either school:
CTC Wings
-A fleet of (relatively) new and reliable Diamond aircraft, most of which are equipped with G1000 avionics (Newer DA-40's based in Phoenix and all DA-42 Twinstars).
-Accommodation is provided at all stages of training(which is shared between 3 other course-mates), including housing in the UK (Southampton and Bournemouth), Phoenix, and Hamilton in New Zealand.
-A choice (Depending on demand Vs. space available and start of course date) between completing the Basic and Intermediate flight training stages in either Phoenix, Arizona or Hamilton, New Zealand.
Oxford Aviation Academy
-CAE Oxford has recently ordered a brand new fleet of 35 Piper Aircraft in a five year program to replace aging Piper Archers/Warriors/Senecas.
-All phases of training are located at a maximum of two Airports, including London-Oxford Airport and Falcon Field Airport in Arizona (Helps with familiarizing aerodrome-specific procedures).
-Accommodation provided in Advanced stages of training in Arizona, however accommodation is limited back in the UK and is based on a first come-first serve basis, resulting in many cadets that do not locally live in Oxford having to rent out flats located close to the airport.
All in all both Flight Training Organizations are some of the best training that is offered around the world, and with highly regarded reputations, you cannot go wrong with selecting either academy.
Lastly, I cannot stress how important it is to take time to visit both FTO's and talk to the instructors/cadets and have a tour of their facilities as this has also helped me in leaning towards one over the other. It will greatly help you in deciding which FTO to ultimately complete your training with. Good luck!
If you want any further information, feel free to private-message me :-)
Kindest Regards
These are my thoughts.
I'm currently at CTC in New Zealand and do not regret my choice for a moment. I do not doubt that the training at other providers may also be very good, it's just the placement opportunities with CTC can't really be beaten provided you make the grade. One of my friends graduated in May and is now about to start his type rating with Easyjet. I'm sure Oxford will get you into Ryanair, just I'm not sure everyone has another £30k+ they can spend. Either way both schools are the best ways into a RHS of a jet.
Quality of fleet, accommodation and training is fantastic here in NZ, plus a superb experience being in this country. That's also part of why some people choose CTC. CAVOK weather in Arizona for 5 months wasn't what I was after. All accommodation is provided for too. The aircraft are all quite modern, the G1000's definitely will make the transition to the SIM's much easier.
It depends what you want from your training whether you do Modular or Integrated, also that and cost/funding. I spent 6 years saving up for CTC Wings, so for me choice was all about getting a job, after all thats why most guys/girls look to CTC or OAA. So yes it costs a hell of a lot more, but you could just go modular and get an FI rating and see where that takes you, choice is yours.
Personally I feel that employment is key (for most it's to pay back the loan) and that's why I chose CTC. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this place.
I'm currently at CTC in New Zealand and do not regret my choice for a moment. I do not doubt that the training at other providers may also be very good, it's just the placement opportunities with CTC can't really be beaten provided you make the grade. One of my friends graduated in May and is now about to start his type rating with Easyjet. I'm sure Oxford will get you into Ryanair, just I'm not sure everyone has another £30k+ they can spend. Either way both schools are the best ways into a RHS of a jet.
Quality of fleet, accommodation and training is fantastic here in NZ, plus a superb experience being in this country. That's also part of why some people choose CTC. CAVOK weather in Arizona for 5 months wasn't what I was after. All accommodation is provided for too. The aircraft are all quite modern, the G1000's definitely will make the transition to the SIM's much easier.
It depends what you want from your training whether you do Modular or Integrated, also that and cost/funding. I spent 6 years saving up for CTC Wings, so for me choice was all about getting a job, after all thats why most guys/girls look to CTC or OAA. So yes it costs a hell of a lot more, but you could just go modular and get an FI rating and see where that takes you, choice is yours.
Personally I feel that employment is key (for most it's to pay back the loan) and that's why I chose CTC. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this place.
Last edited by byrondaf; 25th Sep 2014 at 08:22. Reason: ....
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I struggle to see why people who choose OAA over CTC. The hold pool/placement scheme puts you in a far better position to obtain a job; most people who complete the course do obtain employment. Don't get me wrong, I’m not the biggest fan of CTC by a long way and I deplore the way they treat some of their customers but you can’t deny that they do what they say.
I also agree with Pushkovinator, take time to visit both placed but be aware that open days or ‘careers events’ are a carefully designed sales pitch – don’t fall into the trap. Make sure you can see through the glossy marketing. I imagine both schools have their positives and negatives, but no one has trained at both so you won’t find an unbiased opinion.
I can only talk about CTC. I found the ground school tuition in the UK not to be too great, but CTC are aware of this and are working on it. There is one ground school instructor in particular who is excellent, and another who will literally bend over backwards to help you. He was often found in classrooms at 11pm helping cadets and always arranged sim rides for us too. A top bloke. In NZ you are assigned a ‘primary instructor’ who you should do most of your flying with. I like this system as it provides good continuity, your training is clearly documented and the structured program makes it easy to see what you should be achieving in each lesson and makes it easy to plan ahead. The instructors are a mixed bag like any other place, some are excellent, some are terrible, some are just rude and the whole spectrum in between. It must be said there is some excellent flying in NZ.
I think the twinstars are reliable; the diamond DA20 katanas out in NZ certainly are not. It’s pot luck whether you can start the thing... The accommodation is pretty good quality, although the NZ accommodation is in the middle of no-where and there is a ridiculous policy of sharing cars which makes it awkward to get anyway – often you can be left stranded at the accommodation.
I would strongly advise you apply to all tagged schemes before going down the self-sponsored route as you will have a far higher chance of getting a job.
I also agree with Pushkovinator, take time to visit both placed but be aware that open days or ‘careers events’ are a carefully designed sales pitch – don’t fall into the trap. Make sure you can see through the glossy marketing. I imagine both schools have their positives and negatives, but no one has trained at both so you won’t find an unbiased opinion.
I can only talk about CTC. I found the ground school tuition in the UK not to be too great, but CTC are aware of this and are working on it. There is one ground school instructor in particular who is excellent, and another who will literally bend over backwards to help you. He was often found in classrooms at 11pm helping cadets and always arranged sim rides for us too. A top bloke. In NZ you are assigned a ‘primary instructor’ who you should do most of your flying with. I like this system as it provides good continuity, your training is clearly documented and the structured program makes it easy to see what you should be achieving in each lesson and makes it easy to plan ahead. The instructors are a mixed bag like any other place, some are excellent, some are terrible, some are just rude and the whole spectrum in between. It must be said there is some excellent flying in NZ.
I think the twinstars are reliable; the diamond DA20 katanas out in NZ certainly are not. It’s pot luck whether you can start the thing... The accommodation is pretty good quality, although the NZ accommodation is in the middle of no-where and there is a ridiculous policy of sharing cars which makes it awkward to get anyway – often you can be left stranded at the accommodation.
I would strongly advise you apply to all tagged schemes before going down the self-sponsored route as you will have a far higher chance of getting a job.
No decision making involved if it's CAVOK all the time...for just "getting through" the VFR training, yes it would be easier and quicker, but it poses no questions or real thought from the student. It won't all be plain sailing in the UK or flying for an airline.
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Weather in AZ is just great for start flying and learning basic skills. I don't think that a first solo would be more effective from the training point of view if the weather was "challenging". Also az is not always CAVOK, winds do pick up quite quickly and many times solo nav flight have been cancelled by students due to winds getting stronger for the time of arrival. sand storms and excessive heat are common factors out there that you don't get so much often in other parts of the world, but do pose a potential risk.
In addition to that, the IR training is done in the UK where the weather is more "interesting", but it's part of the training. You can't expect a student pilot to be ready to make all the decision right away after his first solo. Training is gradual and weather dependant decision are among the most challenging one have to make in general aviation, in my opinion of course
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In addition to that, the IR training is done in the UK where the weather is more "interesting", but it's part of the training. You can't expect a student pilot to be ready to make all the decision right away after his first solo. Training is gradual and weather dependant decision are among the most challenging one have to make in general aviation, in my opinion of course
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No decision making involved if it's CAVOK all the time...for just "getting through" the VFR training
PHX has also had it's rough share of weather recently too with all of those violent dust and thunderstorms in the month of August.
I understand that it is important for pilots to train in both good and bad weather, especially during the VFR stages, but I'm also sure that it wouldn't be very pleasing when most of your flight lessons get cancelled during a week with rough weather. There is a reason why, depending on the time of year, the Basic and Intermediate flight training stages take a few weeks (If not months) longer in NZ than they do in PHX.
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I agree with the comments from john_smith regarding this, 'CAVOK' weather and the decision making process involved with the IR is irrelevant. For what it's worth, I learnt more about decision making skills in my first week of line flying across Europe (i.e. in an airline) than I did in eighteen months of flight school.
Pick an integrated school, keep your head down, have a good time, pass everything first time and focus on building those connections to help you obtain that first job in the right seat of a medium jet, or whatever it is you may wish to pursue.
Pick an integrated school, keep your head down, have a good time, pass everything first time and focus on building those connections to help you obtain that first job in the right seat of a medium jet, or whatever it is you may wish to pursue.
'No decision making...' What does that mean? Flying VFR your decisions tend to be fairly limited anyway. You will learn all about decision making when you go on to the AQC/JOC, type rating and finally line training and line flying. What you learn in the basic phase (up to the IR) are basic flying skills which (apart from the IFR phase) have little relevance to airline flying. Gaining a CPL and single pilot IR are just hoops that you have to jump through, and hopefully have a bit of fun doing.
All of this is to say that your goal, if you go to CTC or OAA, should be to get through as quickly as possible, with the minimum amount of fuss, preferably with first time passes. Don't concern yourself with whether the met will provide you with adequete experience of 'making decisions' because when you make it to the airline, such experience is completely irrelevant, and quickly superceded.
All of this is to say that your goal, if you go to CTC or OAA, should be to get through as quickly as possible, with the minimum amount of fuss, preferably with first time passes. Don't concern yourself with whether the met will provide you with adequete experience of 'making decisions' because when you make it to the airline, such experience is completely irrelevant, and quickly superceded.
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I do have to laugh when potential cadets talk about the pros and cons of various factors between the big schools. Aircraft types, accommodation, G1000s, the "feeling" of the school, the number of airports you train at (!?!). Forget it all.
There is only one factor you should be looking at; the likelihood of an airline job at the end of it. Nothing else matters. I think I would even advise people NOT to go visit the schools; doing so just allows them to hit you with their (admittedly excellent) marketing.
There is only one factor you should be looking at; the likelihood of an airline job at the end of it. Nothing else matters. I think I would even advise people NOT to go visit the schools; doing so just allows them to hit you with their (admittedly excellent) marketing.
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This post troubles me.
On one hand I agree that the most important thing is probably the likelihood of a job afterwards.
On the other I disagree with two aspects, one being the point I just agreed with. Firstly, the other important thing is good, solid instruction. If for whatever reason you don't get handed an airline job straight away (chances are you wont) then what you learn on the course can suddenly be much more relevant. My first job was not with an airline but with a charter company flying piston twins. I managed to get that job not because of the school I went to, but I got the opportunity myself from networking and perhaps more importantly secured the job (ahead of other candidates) by showing the chief pilot that I at least half knew what I was doing. It is true that the CPL and IR course won't prepare you properly for real world flying, and that most of it is learnt on the job but you have to show the guys looking for people to fly their aircraft and passengers that you aren't a complete numpty. My first outfit rarely hired from CTC/FTE/Oxford not because of principle (we had a few guys from those schools anyway) but more because when they visited the office and were told to go grab some jepps and get ready for an OPC they fell to pieces because it wasn't the 'airline way' which was taught to them. I know at least a couple of them who are still searching for their first job now, albeit being back in 9-5 jobs mostly given up.
In short - the training doesn't matter so much if you go straight into a big structured airline where you are going to be trained to their standards and their philosophy. If you look outside the airline world however, any possible snippets of knowledge, skills, tips, tricks or whatever that someone was able to impart on you about REAL WORLD flying (not how to pass a test) is likely to come in much more useful.
The other thing I disagree with is about not visiting schools. I strongly belive in going to visit anywhere were you are going to spend a significant amount of your (or your parents') money. I narrowed my own choice down to a few schools and I spent a bit extra money going to visit each of them. I went into this eing 80% sure I was going to go with school A, and in the end I went with school C (having completely ruled out another one I was initially impressed with because of the shockingly bad way they treated someone who walked onto their premises looking to spend thousands).
On one hand I agree that the most important thing is probably the likelihood of a job afterwards.
On the other I disagree with two aspects, one being the point I just agreed with. Firstly, the other important thing is good, solid instruction. If for whatever reason you don't get handed an airline job straight away (chances are you wont) then what you learn on the course can suddenly be much more relevant. My first job was not with an airline but with a charter company flying piston twins. I managed to get that job not because of the school I went to, but I got the opportunity myself from networking and perhaps more importantly secured the job (ahead of other candidates) by showing the chief pilot that I at least half knew what I was doing. It is true that the CPL and IR course won't prepare you properly for real world flying, and that most of it is learnt on the job but you have to show the guys looking for people to fly their aircraft and passengers that you aren't a complete numpty. My first outfit rarely hired from CTC/FTE/Oxford not because of principle (we had a few guys from those schools anyway) but more because when they visited the office and were told to go grab some jepps and get ready for an OPC they fell to pieces because it wasn't the 'airline way' which was taught to them. I know at least a couple of them who are still searching for their first job now, albeit being back in 9-5 jobs mostly given up.
In short - the training doesn't matter so much if you go straight into a big structured airline where you are going to be trained to their standards and their philosophy. If you look outside the airline world however, any possible snippets of knowledge, skills, tips, tricks or whatever that someone was able to impart on you about REAL WORLD flying (not how to pass a test) is likely to come in much more useful.
The other thing I disagree with is about not visiting schools. I strongly belive in going to visit anywhere were you are going to spend a significant amount of your (or your parents') money. I narrowed my own choice down to a few schools and I spent a bit extra money going to visit each of them. I went into this eing 80% sure I was going to go with school A, and in the end I went with school C (having completely ruled out another one I was initially impressed with because of the shockingly bad way they treated someone who walked onto their premises looking to spend thousands).
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I do have to laugh when potential cadets talk about the pros and cons of various factors between the big schools. Aircraft types, accommodation, G1000s, the "feeling" of the school, the number of airports you train at (!?!). Forget it all.
Also, in regards to judging a school primarily on your "likelihood of an airline job at the end of it", some schools manage to get more cadets hired than others one month, while another might do better at another point in the year. If this wasn't the case, the common debate of deciding which school is the best out of OAA/CTC/FTE would go out of the window because the answer would be obvious, go with the one that gets the most cadets hired. As you can tell from looking around the forums, this is clearly not the case.
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I saw this thread and as a long time lurker with a wealth of experience in the 'front end' of this industry, I had to comment.....
What you're asking is akin to the cambridge vs oxford debate (in university terms), a decision which will likely make little difference to your employment prospects yet it will make a significant difference to your conscious on those dark, dreary days when things aren't going to plan, i.e. Hold pools, weather delays, P2F proposals etc.
What you MUST do in my opinion is choose what's right for YOU and you only!
Should you pick a school that's not solely your genuine choice, you will look for the first excuse to divert the responsibility of that decision when things go pear shaped... Which sadly they do in this day and age, not just in the aviation industry (as much of this forum will lead you to believe).
What you're asking is akin to the cambridge vs oxford debate (in university terms), a decision which will likely make little difference to your employment prospects yet it will make a significant difference to your conscious on those dark, dreary days when things aren't going to plan, i.e. Hold pools, weather delays, P2F proposals etc.
What you MUST do in my opinion is choose what's right for YOU and you only!
Should you pick a school that's not solely your genuine choice, you will look for the first excuse to divert the responsibility of that decision when things go pear shaped... Which sadly they do in this day and age, not just in the aviation industry (as much of this forum will lead you to believe).
