Flybe DHC8 F/O recruitment
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I am wondering, why they do require JOC after all. Are they in posesion of jet version of Dash 8 
or this is a neat strategy to suck more money from us and to revitalize the JOC training market once again (after last year's peak due to Wizzair's recruitment)? Any clues?
or this is a neat strategy to suck more money from us and to revitalize the JOC training market once again (after last year's peak due to Wizzair's recruitment)? Any clues?
I am wondering, why they do require JOC after all. Are they in posesion of jet version of Dash 8
Join Date: Jan 2013
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To be pedantic, a Dash 8 is a jet
I don't know how it is supposed to be done, but my JOC was focusing on handling of a JET aircraft (turbofan) and understanding phenomena related to this type of aircraft. It was later on practiced on a sim sessions. Should I want my money back?
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Flybe DHC8 F/O recruitment
Flybe also fly the embraer and as far asI know, promotion is in seniority within rank. It is then prudent that you have done a JOC in preparation for a transfer of fleet at some point in your employment there. The JOC is actually a great start for building on your experience and skills gained in the MCC. If you aspire to flying jets at some stage, you will have to do one. Some airlines do them as part of a type rating, but many require it before you start.
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Holyjoe,
that makes a lot of sense what You are writing here. However, in my opinion, JOC shouldn't be there as a mandatory requirement, rather optional, giving some extra points for the candidates in possession of this certificate.
that makes a lot of sense what You are writing here. However, in my opinion, JOC shouldn't be there as a mandatory requirement, rather optional, giving some extra points for the candidates in possession of this certificate.
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Holyjoe, do you really think a 16 hour JOC ten years prior to flying a jet is any use whatsoever? Do you think, maybe, that 10 years operating the Q400 to be more relevant?
I know someone who did a JOC on a Kingair sim, was that in any way helpful when he started flying the 146? Nope.
A JOC is utterly irrelevant to flying a jet.
I know someone who did a JOC on a Kingair sim, was that in any way helpful when he started flying the 146? Nope.
A JOC is utterly irrelevant to flying a jet.
Wasn't the JOC thought up by someone at Oxford to suck even more money out of wannabee's??
I can't think of any place in the world other than Europe that require them.
The country where I did my training doesn't even require an MCC (it will soon as our regulator thinks everything done in Europe is better) to get a jet job.
I think the reason for this is up until very recently, you wouldn't get anywhere near a jet for at least 2000 hours. That said though even the low time guys who were able to get into jets seemed to cope just fine with just the type training in the sim. No need for anything else it seems.
Flybe require the JOC is just to filter down the number of applications.
I can't think of any place in the world other than Europe that require them.
The country where I did my training doesn't even require an MCC (it will soon as our regulator thinks everything done in Europe is better) to get a jet job.
I think the reason for this is up until very recently, you wouldn't get anywhere near a jet for at least 2000 hours. That said though even the low time guys who were able to get into jets seemed to cope just fine with just the type training in the sim. No need for anything else it seems.
Flybe require the JOC is just to filter down the number of applications.
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Flybe require the JOC is just to filter down the number of applications.
Does anybody know what is the application deadline, just to have a sense when to expect (or stop expecting) call from Flybe?
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If you can learn the intricacies of flying jets and all the high altitude problems associated in 16 hours you are a better man than I. It is clearly a course designed to introduce the single pilot to the dual crew environment so they don't (hopefully) have to spend the first 16 hours in their very expensive dash sim teaching you there's someone sitting next to you, and aircraft go quicker than 140kts.
Also if you want to take the "turboprop isn't a jet" line of answering when they ask "how does a turboprop work" please could you post the reactions back here. A turboprop is a gas turbine jet engine, with a reduction gear box spinning a prop that produces thrust, if we're to be pedantic a certain amount of thrust is also produced from the exhaust gases (jet enough for you?). Just because it doesn't have a fan in an enclosed case does not mean it isn't a gas turbine.
For all those that do apply best of luck.
Also if you want to take the "turboprop isn't a jet" line of answering when they ask "how does a turboprop work" please could you post the reactions back here. A turboprop is a gas turbine jet engine, with a reduction gear box spinning a prop that produces thrust, if we're to be pedantic a certain amount of thrust is also produced from the exhaust gases (jet enough for you?). Just because it doesn't have a fan in an enclosed case does not mean it isn't a gas turbine.
For all those that do apply best of luck.
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Holyjoe, do you really think a 16 hour JOC ten years prior to flying a jet is any use whatsoever? Do you think, maybe, that 10 years operating the Q400 to be more relevant?
I know someone who did a JOC on a Kingair sim, was that in any way helpful when he started flying the 146? Nope.
A JOC is utterly irrelevant to flying a jet.
I know someone who did a JOC on a Kingair sim, was that in any way helpful when he started flying the 146? Nope.
A JOC is utterly irrelevant to flying a jet.
The JOC is to take your skills to the next level. It is supposed tohelp you make the transition from light aircraft to heavier machines that fly faster.
Some find it useful, others not. However it is a requirement and thats the way it is.
Paying for a type rating and line training is squeezing more money out of you, but the JOC has been around for 20+ years so there must be some merit to it. Yes I found it useful and it was an excellent way of cementing the Multicrew skills. I rather look at the value of all training rather than question the point of it. All that negative energy being pissed off at a system that will never change...do a JOC and enjoy it.
A leading UK airline are considering running MCC/JOC courses and using them as a way to spot talent amongst modular students. Many airlines recruit this way. Don't mock the JOC...it has its place.
And I doubt your mate did a JOC on a Kingair as it is a turboprop...keep it real here!
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Flybe DHC8 F/O recruitment
Totally agree with RHS. When I did my typerating we were able to get stuck straight in as all the Multicrew issues and the faster pace had been addressed in the JOC. It is really helpful for the next stage. When you do a type rating you need all the help you can get to stay ahead of the game. Extra hours in the type rating costs a company money so they don't want that. It should be mandatory because it definitely has its place in training.
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RHS,
I think that the presence of another person next to You should be covered by MCC course, which is required to start a JOC.
The same amount of thrust is leaving the exhaust pipe on a turboprop as it is leaving the exhaust of any car. Congratulations! You are now in possession of a jet car! The energy of the gas is taken entirely (or should be, depending on the engine efficiency) by the power turbines in a turboprop. This is not the case in turbofans, where some amount of thrust is produced by the core section. The working parameters, temperatures, pressure ratios are also different for both type of engines. So, no, Dash is not enough jet for me. Like pilotchute wrote, this requirement is just to cut the number of CVs flying from applicants, regardless it makes sense for this particular position or not.
It is clearly a course designed to introduce the single pilot to the dual crew environment so they don't (hopefully) have to spend the first 16 hours in their very expensive dash sim teaching you there's someone sitting next to you, and aircraft go quicker than 140kts.
if we're to be pedantic a certain amount of thrust is also produced from the exhaust gases (jet enough for you?)
The energy of the gas is taken entirely (or should be, depending on the engine efficiency) by the power turbines in a turboprop. This is not the case in turbofans, where some amount of thrust is produced by the core section. The working parameters, temperatures, pressure ratios are also different for both type of engines. So, no, Dash is not enough jet for me. Like pilotchute wrote, this requirement is just to cut the number of CVs flying from applicants, regardless it makes sense for this particular position or not.
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Their requirements specify one stop modular candidates excluding PPL and ATPL Theory. Of course this means that the CPL/IR must both be done at the same FTO, however, does the MCC/JOC also have to be done at the same FTO as the CPL/IR?
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Flybe DHC8 F/O recruitment
Immelman87, until you have done a JOC and a typerating you just wont get it. My first typerating was turboprop but the JOC definitely gave me and my partner a great start. A good pass in ATPL means you know your stuff..if you achieved high marks by learning the bristol database then that will come out on the course. Its .kind of important when it's your job! I can tell you numerous times I have had to recall ATPL stuff to troubleshoot a problem...you really need to know your stuff and your instrument skills have to be spot on..every time.
It's not just about the ray bans, the uniform, the flash car and fit cabin crew, its about being fully prepared to take your place on the airways.
Put it another way.....if you injured your leg and your flying career was on the line, you'd make damn sure you had a doctor who knew above and beyond what they needed to know to help you.
If you cock up in the air its game over. Airlines need to mitigate that risk by ensuring you have been given every advantage by good training.
Good luck to all
It's not just about the ray bans, the uniform, the flash car and fit cabin crew, its about being fully prepared to take your place on the airways.
Put it another way.....if you injured your leg and your flying career was on the line, you'd make damn sure you had a doctor who knew above and beyond what they needed to know to help you.
If you cock up in the air its game over. Airlines need to mitigate that risk by ensuring you have been given every advantage by good training.
Good luck to all
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A JOC may as well be called "a bigger, faster, hearvier a/c with different instruments to what you have been used to - orientation course. But JOC is snappier. It is perfectly reasonable for Flybe to ask that you have one to fly the Dash 8. To my knowledge there isn't a Turboprop orientation course.
You have to ask yourself why is Flybe going to pick you over any other 250hr CPL/ME/IR candidate. Showing some initiative to further your training and experience might be a good start.
Lets face it, no employer is going to turn you away for doing a JOC....
You have to ask yourself why is Flybe going to pick you over any other 250hr CPL/ME/IR candidate. Showing some initiative to further your training and experience might be a good start.
Lets face it, no employer is going to turn you away for doing a JOC....
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Can we forget about the JOC...
Fairly simple, the JOC is simply another means to separate you from your cash. I have one and while it is of course useful experience it should not in my opinion be a mandatory requirement for any application, again neither should 'one stop modular' students be favoured.
As much fun as it is to bang on about who has the bigger 'JOC' can we keep this thread on topic and try and find some details on the recruitment like how many people are they looking for and most importantly how many of the slots have already been promised to the big flight schools? Any insider info appreciated.
As much fun as it is to bang on about who has the bigger 'JOC' can we keep this thread on topic and try and find some details on the recruitment like how many people are they looking for and most importantly how many of the slots have already been promised to the big flight schools? Any insider info appreciated.
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Why do you think I know that it's a waste of time and money?
I haven't done a JOC, I did do an MCC, but I have done 4 jet TRs and a TP TR. The first TR I did was on a heavy jet. How did I cope without a JOC?
Edit: Sorry Monk, I got this in before I saw your post
I haven't done a JOC, I did do an MCC, but I have done 4 jet TRs and a TP TR. The first TR I did was on a heavy jet. How did I cope without a JOC?
Edit: Sorry Monk, I got this in before I saw your post
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Look guys. Stop whining about the JOC. If you want to work for Flybe and you don't match the requirements then go and make sure you do before applying. If you don't want to work for them then simply don't apply. If the application stipulates you need 50hrs in the previous 12 months then make sure you've got it. If it doesn't say it then guess what? You don't need it. It's not rocket science, just apply with what they stipulate, if it's not stipulated then it's not required. We don't ask for the type rating costs upfront, or anything else for that matter, if you're not happy with any of it then don't apply. As for the taking on of non UK residents, we have many, many foreign pilots in Flybe, we do not discriminate unlike our European counterparts.
All the very best to those who apply.
All the very best to those who apply.
