BA CityFlyer MPL FTE Jerez

[captain.weird]

Hi guys

Hereby the MPL scheme which is mentored by BACF and training by FTE Jerez.

Good luck for the applicants!

BACF FTE MPL

[EZY_FR]

£82K self funded?! No thanks FTE.

[ManUtd1999]

Same old story really. A great FTO, reputable airline with a decent enough salary, all in all a good proposition for any wannabe pilot except for one thing. They won't guarantee a loan for you so you have to bet your/someone else's house on any number of things going perfectly to plan.

If only airlines would see the light and guarantee loans. They get a larger pool of applicants, cadets without the means to pay on their own get a chance and it doesn't cost anybody a penny extra...

[chocsaway08]

Well said MU. So many of these schemes are unrealistic unless you are willing to risk absolutely everything.

[nonsoloinglese]

It is an attractive proposition, the price is somewhat cheaper than its peers group and also includes accommodation.

Very few guarantee the loan, it is a bug bear but a fact of life so I wouldn't hold it against them.

[PPRuNeUser0173]

but isn't there a problem with Instructor retention at FTE? Another thread on here seems to be implying this! I am told one FI is joining a school at Bournemouth.............

[Bealzebub]

If only airlines would see the light and guarantee loans. They get a larger pool of applicants, cadets without the means to pay on their own get a chance and it doesn't cost anybody a penny extra...

Until somebody defaults and then it costs the guarantor. They already have a large pool of applicants. These days the risk usually rests firmly on the shoulders of the applicant. If you were selling your car, you would get a lot of applicants if you were offering to act as a guarantor for their potential loan, but you can see the obvious pitfalls.

The inherent risks here are: that the candidate will fail to complete the course for any number of possible reasons; the airline will change their recruitment plans; the candidate will fail to meet the performance targets set down by the airline partner. Some of these risks (not all) may be insured against.

The inherent advantage is that it is potentially a major springboard into an airline career that wouldn't otherwise be as accessible.
You need to weigh up the very real risks involved and if a setback would have the effect of ruining your life then the advice would be simple...Don't do it!

Despite the oft repeated suggestion that "everything is on the line," the reality is that the principal lenders in this marketplace require that any property proposed as security for the loan usually has no more than a 60% single mortgage on it, even after the proposed charge is included. It also requires that any guarantors are financially able to assume the loan repayments in the event the borrower defaults. In reality these criteria preclude a large number of would be applicants from qualifying for this type of borrowing. Despite that, circumstances change, and there are very real inherent risks to large sums of secured borrowing, and they shouldn't be understated.

[ManUtd1999]

If you were selling your car, you would get a lot of applicants if you were offering to act as a guarantor for their potential loan, but you can see the obvious pitfalls.

The inherent risks here are: that the candidate will fail to complete the course for any number of possible reasons; the airline will change their recruitment plans; the candidate will fail to meet the performance targets set down by the airline partner. Some of these risks (not all) may be insured against.

This isn't the thread for a long debate about this, but you can't compare airline training to selling a car. Airlines are offering a job, not a service. It is their responsibility to take a certain level of risk, just like every other industry.

[maxed-out]

ManUnt1999,

Don't waste your breath on people who suggest it is fair and right that candidates should bear the burden of these schemes, together with the associated risks. They are the very people profiteering in this shameful cartel and the greasing of palms to place cadets into the airlines. The BA scheme excluded.

If airlines are certain of their needs and launch such a scheme, then they should be willing to bear that risk/burden, or at least half of it. This assures the goal posts don't shift whilst on the course and the FTO/Airline has you by the short and curlies.

All in my opinion of course!

[Bealzebub]

This isn't the thread for a long debate about this, but you can't compare airline training to selling a car. Airlines are offering a job, not a service. It is their responsibility to take a certain level of risk, just like every other industry.

Oh, but you can! A car and a training course are both products for sale. They both need buyers and they both need buyers with cash. Neither are interested in subsidizing you or guaranteeing any loan you might need to avail yourself of. That is your problem.

It isn't "their responsibility" to take on any level of risk. It is either a choice or a necessity to take on risk. Where risk is not a necessity, they will normally choose to avoid it unless the returns make the risk a worthwhile choice. In this case, and putting it bluntly, it is a case of here is an opportunity. You want to be an airline pilot, then put your money where your mouth is. If you don't want to, or can't, that is fine.........next!

There was a time when airlines footed the bill for everything connected with recruitment. Those times have long gone. The demise was in part driven by the simple economic doctrines of new world "lo-co" carriers. However it was also driven by the losses incurred by applicants that signed up, took the product, and then sold it to somebody else at the first opportunity. By way of example (and in the lifetime of this website) when airlines sought to "bond" applicants for their training costs, there was an absolute outcry on these forums about the abhorrence of such practices. Barely a week went by when somebody wasn't seeking advice for jumping their bond without penalty to themselves. Given the legal costs of recovery, the natural evolution for the airlines was to simply shift the burden. You want training that puts you in a position to do this job, then you pay for it. You want to leave and sell that training to somebody else?...... Fine you paid for it, do what you feel you have to.

Now you are left with maybe one ab-initio programme in the UK that (in certain circumstances) might be able to offer a financial guarantee for the loan necessary for that programme. That programme is extremely selective and competitive and if providing those guarantees proves costly it is just as likely to evaporate eventually.

So whether you choose to "waste your breath" or not, the reality is glaringly obvious and it isn't going to change anytime soon.

[hazholmes]

Still an awful lot of money but it's cheaper than the 'regular' FTE course price, has a TR thrown in and will hopefully lead to a permenantly salaried job. Seems one of the better schemes out there, in my opinion.

[lightning bird]

"If you don't want to, or can't, that is fine.........next!"
Beazlebub that pretty much sums up the problem, no meritocracy whatsoever in this industry, probably not a healthy thing to have in any walk of life I guess. We do want it, thought about it, dreamt about it, read up on it, discussed it on forums, visiting an airport just for the hell of it on a weekend....but alas not priviliged enough...I guess next!!

[Boe787ing]

Has anyone actually submitted an application and got feedback? or been through this process before and shed some light?


I understand next stage would be in Manchester (BACF HQ)....so directly airline assessments?


Thanks in advance

[Gally2]

I have applied, got past stage 1 and waiting to hear about stage 2! What does stage 3 in Manchester involve does anyone know? I know it's assessment but what exactly is this? How can you practice for it?

[maxed-out]

Lightning bird,

You took the words from my mouth.

Although I'm modular trained and shouldn't really get involved in discussions about cadet programmes, it sickens me that he comes on here with that cavalier attitude towards peoples livelihoods. He probably has the same arrogant attitude to his new FO's like that miserable, crusty old git of a captain in the elevator at T5 in this evenings episode of A very British Airline. You know? The one that refused to greet the new cadet.

[Gally2]

Maxed out i could not agree more with you...arrogant man who believes he is too good to speak to people who he believes are of lesser importance

[Bealzebub]

"If you don't want to, or can't, that is fine.........next!"
Beazlebub that pretty much sums up the problem, no meritocracy whatsoever in this industry, probably not a healthy thing to have in any walk of life I guess. We do want it, thought about it, dreamt about it, read up on it, discussed it on forums, visiting an airport just for the hell of it on a weekend....but alas not priviliged enough...I guess next!!

Yes, I am afraid that is pretty much the industry wide reality these days for all the reasons I gave in the previous reply.

it sickens me that he comes on here with that cavalier attitude towards peoples livelihoods. He probably has the same arrogant attitude to his new FO's like that miserable, crusty old git of a captain in the elevator at T5 in this evenings episode of A very British Airline. You know? The one that refused to greet the new cadet.

I am not sure who you think did that? The reply encapsulated an industry wide reality to a specific point that was raised. As regards the documentary clip, did your narrow focus allow you to see it from the "crusty old git of a captains" perspective? That would be the one where you dash for an elevator only to find yourself confronted by a cameraman, a sound recorder, a lighting person and a director. Perhaps he was a little surprised and didn't immediately notice the F/O in the corner. Perhaps once the little red light went off, he greeted the F/O and expressed surprise at finding himself the subject of a TV programme. Who knows? In any event I doubt he would want to present himself as appearing rude. Sometimes it is helpful to look at the wider picture unless that doesn't suit your rush to judgement!

I don't think I have ever been "arrogant" to new First Officers, and the comment I have supplied on these forums has always been qualified and factual. The positive support for new F/O and cadet programmes has even erroneously attracted comments of vested interests and drawing benefit from specific FTO's. Indeed such comment (albeit your opinion of course) popularly emanates from a contributor to this thread. I am simply providing a very real and a very valid perspective from a significant vantage and experience base. If you consider that arrogant, so be it. If you don't like what I say, then ignore it. If you think it is wrong then disagree with it. However the reality cheque (and that isn't a typo,) is that this is a difficult and expensive profession to enter. I stand by everything I have ever written on these forums. I consider every contribution as honest and valid. The purpose of providing information or comment isn't to share dreams or massage fragile egos or blow fragrant smoke up anybody's proverbial. It is simply to provide what is intended to be a helpful and qualified perspective, for people to use or discard entirely as they see fit.

Steering this thread back on track... The suggestion that this programme is likely to be paid for by the customer airline is wishful thinking. Those days have almost completely evaporated. It is what it is.. You pay your money and take your choice.

[alexisbarboule]

Condition of employment / EMBRAER TR

Hy everyone,

I applied for the easyjet MPL and i'm interested in this one. Tranning is chezper and includes accomodation an VAT.

I was just wondering what type of contract do you get at the end of trainning?
Is it a permanent BACF contrat, or some kind of flexicrew contract.

Does someone knows something about starting salary?

I am not confident about becoming "TRated" on Embraer.
Once you decided (or not) to leave BACF, there aren't a lot of European airlines flying Emb, so I will have to pay for an Airbus or Boeing TR to get a new employment...

@Boe787ing have you applied for this scheme yet?

[Gally2]

If you don't mind me asking were you successful with easyjet MPL scheme?

[alexisbarboule]

MPL OAA

Hy,

I've been to Oxford last week for the stage 2 assessment and I'm still waiting for the results....

i'm not veryconfident but who knows...

Is there a link between your question and the BACF MPL?