BA CityFlyer MPL FTE Jerez
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Mine was in my junk folder so do check people. I had a telephone call of them to confirm that I had received the email. If they hadn't of called then I wouldn't have known!
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Scandalous when you think about it.
Airlines could/can benefit from government training grants, get back the VAT and, set training costs off against profit.
Still, they choose to put the financial burden of initial training on the shoulders of those who can afford it, or whose parents will guarantee their offspring’s outrageous loans.
It precludes many potentially excellent pilots from entering the profession and, allows sloppy and inefficient, no risk HR to prevail.
If potential Train, Tube or Bus drivers were asked to fork out for training there would be headline news, disbelief, a public outcry and no doubt strikes.
Given that Tube drivers are about to earn £52k BASIC for a 35hr week, get paid while training, and, can walk away with no debt our outstanding bond if it all goes pear shaped, you’ve got to ask,..are wannabe pilots sane enough to pass the medical?
Anyway..who here wants to spend their life on the district line!
Still, at the end of the day there’s unstable rosters to look forward to, random base changes and the joy of flying back and forward from Luton to somewhere sunny on a half hour turn around.
No thanks, biz jets for me every time, we sometimes even get to hoover the carpet and collect the rubbish,..you don’t get to do that on your namy pamby, no financial risk, tube or train drivers job do you?
I really do feel for anyone starting out these days. It was never easy in the past, but it was ‘slightly’ fairer and, a lot less expensive.
Worth it? if you've £80k + that you don't need…maybe!
Airlines could/can benefit from government training grants, get back the VAT and, set training costs off against profit.
Still, they choose to put the financial burden of initial training on the shoulders of those who can afford it, or whose parents will guarantee their offspring’s outrageous loans.
It precludes many potentially excellent pilots from entering the profession and, allows sloppy and inefficient, no risk HR to prevail.
If potential Train, Tube or Bus drivers were asked to fork out for training there would be headline news, disbelief, a public outcry and no doubt strikes.
Given that Tube drivers are about to earn £52k BASIC for a 35hr week, get paid while training, and, can walk away with no debt our outstanding bond if it all goes pear shaped, you’ve got to ask,..are wannabe pilots sane enough to pass the medical?
Anyway..who here wants to spend their life on the district line!
Still, at the end of the day there’s unstable rosters to look forward to, random base changes and the joy of flying back and forward from Luton to somewhere sunny on a half hour turn around.
No thanks, biz jets for me every time, we sometimes even get to hoover the carpet and collect the rubbish,..you don’t get to do that on your namy pamby, no financial risk, tube or train drivers job do you?
I really do feel for anyone starting out these days. It was never easy in the past, but it was ‘slightly’ fairer and, a lot less expensive.
Worth it? if you've £80k + that you don't need…maybe!
Last edited by clear prop!!!; 11th Jul 2014 at 06:15.
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Clear Prop I do see your point and it is a very valid one may i add. It is a huge financial burden, one which will last well into an airline pilots career. I am just wondering what kind of life do these "new" pilots have when they start out their career with an airline and have to pay back their massive loan as well as pay for their living costs etc? Do they have any money left over for themselves to do what they want to do with it? Can any current pilot answer that question please ? Or indeed anyone who knows how it works.
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Given that Tube drivers are about to earn £52k BASIC for a 35hr week, get paid while training, and, can walk away with no debt our outstanding bond if it all goes pear shaped, you’ve got to ask,..are wannabe pilots sane enough to pass the medical?
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Absolutely
My point was not to suggest a change of career choice, more a comparison of how training is treated by other transport industry sectors.
Airlines really do rely on the rose tinted glasses worn by some when looking skywards.
I don’t think any one here would want to be a tube driver (with no disrespect to tube drivers) but they do get a better and financially safer deal when it comes to training.
Anyway, been there, done it and bought and paid for the T shirt ( a cheaper T shirt) and wouldn't change it for the World.
My point was not to suggest a change of career choice, more a comparison of how training is treated by other transport industry sectors.
Airlines really do rely on the rose tinted glasses worn by some when looking skywards.
I don’t think any one here would want to be a tube driver (with no disrespect to tube drivers) but they do get a better and financially safer deal when it comes to training.
Anyway, been there, done it and bought and paid for the T shirt ( a cheaper T shirt) and wouldn't change it for the World.
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One thing is for sure, pilots get a better view from their offices than tube drivers. 
I agree regarding much of the financial situation. I've always held the view that you shouldn't risk what you can't afford to lose. While airlines could do a lot more to make the training process more accessible, I also think the candidates themselves should think very carefully about the decisions they make and not just blindly follow their dreams. I'd always urge anyone considering embarking on flight training to really consider plan B and what if scenarios so that they aren't ruined if things don't go to plan. But I'd never tell them to give up on the dream nor suggest they were insane for going for it. Someone has got to fly tomorrow's passengers on their holidays after all...
I agree regarding much of the financial situation. I've always held the view that you shouldn't risk what you can't afford to lose. While airlines could do a lot more to make the training process more accessible, I also think the candidates themselves should think very carefully about the decisions they make and not just blindly follow their dreams. I'd always urge anyone considering embarking on flight training to really consider plan B and what if scenarios so that they aren't ruined if things don't go to plan. But I'd never tell them to give up on the dream nor suggest they were insane for going for it. Someone has got to fly tomorrow's passengers on their holidays after all...
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Gally2,
To answer your previous question. A recent survey carried out by BALPA showed that over half of the pilots surveyed have paid between £75k and £100k for training, 1 in 6 have paid over £100k. 40% of those surveyed said that after servicing their monthly repayment they would have only £500 left to live on for the month.
To answer your previous question. A recent survey carried out by BALPA showed that over half of the pilots surveyed have paid between £75k and £100k for training, 1 in 6 have paid over £100k. 40% of those surveyed said that after servicing their monthly repayment they would have only £500 left to live on for the month.
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Thank you very much for that information. It is horrifying at the money that pilots are left with after repayments are left (especially for those who live in London etc where rent is sky high). The love of aviation must really be a winning factor in these cases
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Point 1: I agree that flight training is a very expensive risk but tube drivers don't fly hundreds of passengers 36,000 feet above the ground going 500mph.
Point 2: If you're fortunate enough to have gone through FTOs such as CTC, OAA or FTEJerez then you're in a good position to get an airline job and pay back your loan due to their airline connections. A family friend of mine graduated from CTC in 2010, got a job with easyjet that year, bought a pretty big house and a brand new audi tt while his loan was payed out of his wages every month (almost £1200) and barely noticed it. My point (which may it may not go down well): Don't believe that every pilot graduates and is jobless for years and in debt and never lands an airline job, you just have to have the drive to go out and get it! Believe in yourself and work hard.
All that being said, I may take all that back when I graduate from CTC and don't have a job lol, touch wood.
Ps. I recognise that there are unfortunately pilots that have been landed with a huge bill for their flight training and have been waitin for years for their first airline job and hope that they find one soon.
Point 2: If you're fortunate enough to have gone through FTOs such as CTC, OAA or FTEJerez then you're in a good position to get an airline job and pay back your loan due to their airline connections. A family friend of mine graduated from CTC in 2010, got a job with easyjet that year, bought a pretty big house and a brand new audi tt while his loan was payed out of his wages every month (almost £1200) and barely noticed it. My point (which may it may not go down well): Don't believe that every pilot graduates and is jobless for years and in debt and never lands an airline job, you just have to have the drive to go out and get it! Believe in yourself and work hard.
All that being said, I may take all that back when I graduate from CTC and don't have a job lol, touch wood.
Ps. I recognise that there are unfortunately pilots that have been landed with a huge bill for their flight training and have been waitin for years for their first airline job and hope that they find one soon.
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Point 2: If you're fortunate enough to have gone through FTOs such as CTC, OAA or FTEJerez then you're in a good position to get an airline job and pay back your loan due to their airline connections. A family friend of mine graduated from CTC in 2010, got a job with easyjet that year, bought a pretty big house and a brand new audi tt while his loan was payed out of his wages every month (almost £1200) and barely noticed it.
Not sure how this individual could afford the tax, insurance and petrol for his brand new Audi hairdressers car.
Then, the mortgage, insurance, gas, rates and electricity on his 'big' house, as a new start SO/ FO withe EZY!
Do the maths...
TrainingLoan £1200, car loan, say £350, Mortgage on that 'big' house, say £1,500
That's £3k a month in round figures after tax, thats around £45k a year before tax he has to earn before he pays council tax, gas, electricity etc etc etc, then, eat.
Now, given that the starting salary at EZY is between £38k and £45k he must be on a diet, not drive his brand new TT a lot and live in a very cold uninsured house with the bailiffs chasing him for council tax arrears!
Maybe he's a hairdresser on the side!
Bloody amazing the blind faith put in FTO's sales pitches and apocryphal stories!
It's tough and highly competitive out here, believe it, before you part with nearly £100k.
At least with the BA scheme there's a job at the end of it for the majority who will pass, and good luck to them.
I still maintain that paying to fly in what ever shape or form is wrong.
Look into it long and hard and read the often good advice often given here.
Anyway, the thread deviates somewhat, sorry!
Just read this and it's not very PC... for 'He' read 'He or She'....sorry ladies (and hairdressers)
Last edited by clear prop!!!; 16th Jul 2014 at 23:02.
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Completely agree with clear prop
By all means go for your dreams; but at least do your homework. Suggesting that you're going to be able to get a big house, brand new car and service your flying debts on a starting FO salary at EJ - and "barely notice it" - is total nonsense. Barely afford it is perhaps more fitting if you were able to afford it at all.
Anyway, let's not go off topic. When are you guys expecting to learn the outcome of your latest assessments?
By all means go for your dreams; but at least do your homework. Suggesting that you're going to be able to get a big house, brand new car and service your flying debts on a starting FO salary at EJ - and "barely notice it" - is total nonsense. Barely afford it is perhaps more fitting if you were able to afford it at all.
Anyway, let's not go off topic. When are you guys expecting to learn the outcome of your latest assessments?
