cadet's first job
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cadet's first job
Help and information please. I'm searching on behalf of a cadet. They were top of their class at flight college but have had no success with enquiries to any airlines. Colleagues on their course have entered RYR's program, and others have found training programs with some other operators. The college is actively trying to place students. After 2 years since graduation it is hugely frustrating, as more students are churned out of the school.
She is a good looking lass, if any of you think that might have a bearing on it. It might also be a factor in considering any recommendations, i.e. are there some airlines more willing to consider females than others? Are there some where the door is more firmly closed than others? She is willing to consider vacancies worldwide. Dutch nationality from the NLS MPA program.
Many thanks
She is a good looking lass, if any of you think that might have a bearing on it. It might also be a factor in considering any recommendations, i.e. are there some airlines more willing to consider females than others? Are there some where the door is more firmly closed than others? She is willing to consider vacancies worldwide. Dutch nationality from the NLS MPA program.
Many thanks
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No it doesn't have an effect. In the UK the equality act 2010 would make discrimination on the basis of gender unlawful in these circumstances. Other EU countries are likely to have similar statutes. There are countries where religious and cultural norms do not necessarily make gender discrimination illegal.
Despite the reply given above, "fashions" do not come into it. Women in this segment of the market might benefit from positive recruitment on the basis of their underrepresentation in the market but generally in a fiercely competitive market that benefit is probably minimal (and not necessarily unlawful either.)
I do not know (even after googling it) what an "NLS MPA" programme is? On the assumption that it is a Dutch training school and a non-MPL programme (an MPL programme would usually be tied to a specific airline) the graduation opportunities are likely to be advantageous to those airlines that the school has a direct relationship with. Obviously this is still wholly dependent on the input requirement of those affiliated airlines at any given point in time and is always going to be dynamic.
Given that others from her class have found placements, has she been back and asked why she isn't being put forward? If "top of her class" is actually indicative of her level of training assessment, she would prima facie be the sort of cadet that most reputable airlines would be pleased to recruit, particularly where that recruitment would have the added advantage of balancing the representation of female pilots.
By the sound of it she hasn't been lucky in a difficult market, but she should use the advantage that might be offered by her training school as well as whatever independent opportunities might present themselves.
Despite the reply given above, "fashions" do not come into it. Women in this segment of the market might benefit from positive recruitment on the basis of their underrepresentation in the market but generally in a fiercely competitive market that benefit is probably minimal (and not necessarily unlawful either.)
I do not know (even after googling it) what an "NLS MPA" programme is? On the assumption that it is a Dutch training school and a non-MPL programme (an MPL programme would usually be tied to a specific airline) the graduation opportunities are likely to be advantageous to those airlines that the school has a direct relationship with. Obviously this is still wholly dependent on the input requirement of those affiliated airlines at any given point in time and is always going to be dynamic.
Given that others from her class have found placements, has she been back and asked why she isn't being put forward? If "top of her class" is actually indicative of her level of training assessment, she would prima facie be the sort of cadet that most reputable airlines would be pleased to recruit, particularly where that recruitment would have the added advantage of balancing the representation of female pilots.
By the sound of it she hasn't been lucky in a difficult market, but she should use the advantage that might be offered by her training school as well as whatever independent opportunities might present themselves.
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Cadets First Job
Blimey PP are you suggesting that I go on a diet and lose the moobs?
All joking aside there’s no doubt that many organisations across the world in many lines of business (not just aviation) have recruitment policies that are prejudiced against race, age, gender and many other factors, to think otherwise is naive. Many of these recruitment policies will be decades old and the passing of a law will not change them but will merely ensure that they become covert. The burden of proof will be placed on the applicant to prove that they have been prejudiced and any sensible organisation will occasionally recruit outside their normal demographic to provide proof against their prejudices.
The idea that women getting pregnant will mess up crewing is not very valid I feel. I don’t know how long a pregnant woman can safely fly as a pilot or a passenger but I assume it must be a few months so any effective crewing department will have a few months notice of the expectant mother leaving and so will have ample time to make preparations. In these enlightened and fair times the blokes can take paternity leave when a child is born so that crewing inconvenience is not limited to the mother.
The things that can mess with crewing might be someone suffering a sudden illness or injury that would send them off sick for weeks or months, someone handing in a months notice or someone dying suddenly.
I assume that the lady subject of the original post is trying to find work on her own initiative rather than relying on the training school recommending her to airlines.
On a more controversial note there is an obvious elephant in the room in that it takes much more than good flying skills to be accepted into an airline, ie there might be personality, attitude and hygiene issues. The airline has to consider whether or not they want this individual sat a few feet from one of their skippers for a long multi-sector day. When the training school recommends students to an airline the reputation of the school is at stake, if they continue to recommend inappropriate candidates then the airline will stop approaching the school and go elsewhere. Maybe the school instructors have noticed something outside your friends flying skills that blocks them recommending her. Of course I mean no offence to you or your friend but as I do not know her personally however it might be a valid point to consider.
I’ll finish what has been a far longer and more rambling post than I originally intended by wishing your friend the best of luck in their search for employment.
All joking aside there’s no doubt that many organisations across the world in many lines of business (not just aviation) have recruitment policies that are prejudiced against race, age, gender and many other factors, to think otherwise is naive. Many of these recruitment policies will be decades old and the passing of a law will not change them but will merely ensure that they become covert. The burden of proof will be placed on the applicant to prove that they have been prejudiced and any sensible organisation will occasionally recruit outside their normal demographic to provide proof against their prejudices.
The idea that women getting pregnant will mess up crewing is not very valid I feel. I don’t know how long a pregnant woman can safely fly as a pilot or a passenger but I assume it must be a few months so any effective crewing department will have a few months notice of the expectant mother leaving and so will have ample time to make preparations. In these enlightened and fair times the blokes can take paternity leave when a child is born so that crewing inconvenience is not limited to the mother.
The things that can mess with crewing might be someone suffering a sudden illness or injury that would send them off sick for weeks or months, someone handing in a months notice or someone dying suddenly.
I assume that the lady subject of the original post is trying to find work on her own initiative rather than relying on the training school recommending her to airlines.
On a more controversial note there is an obvious elephant in the room in that it takes much more than good flying skills to be accepted into an airline, ie there might be personality, attitude and hygiene issues. The airline has to consider whether or not they want this individual sat a few feet from one of their skippers for a long multi-sector day. When the training school recommends students to an airline the reputation of the school is at stake, if they continue to recommend inappropriate candidates then the airline will stop approaching the school and go elsewhere. Maybe the school instructors have noticed something outside your friends flying skills that blocks them recommending her. Of course I mean no offence to you or your friend but as I do not know her personally however it might be a valid point to consider.
I’ll finish what has been a far longer and more rambling post than I originally intended by wishing your friend the best of luck in their search for employment.
cadet's first job
I've seen a slight increase in the numbers of female cadets at my airline, though my random encounters across the crewroom or jumpseat don't constitute a valid scientific study.
But the notion that a company's stated recruitment policy and it's actual attitude to female pilots are the same is extraordinarily naive.
Finally, many airlines do not allow paternity leave as such. Mine doesn't, unless you think 2 days taken as annual leave plus your ordinary off days counts!
But the notion that a company's stated recruitment policy and it's actual attitude to female pilots are the same is extraordinarily naive.
Finally, many airlines do not allow paternity leave as such. Mine doesn't, unless you think 2 days taken as annual leave plus your ordinary off days counts!
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I don't think not finding a job 2 years post qualifying, is that long in my opinion.
Has she done any flying to add some more hours to her logbook e.g glider towing, paradropping etc like the rest of us are doing? Or is that beneath integrated cadets?
Has she done any flying to add some more hours to her logbook e.g glider towing, paradropping etc like the rest of us are doing? Or is that beneath integrated cadets?
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Burden of proof
No it doesn't have an effect. In the UK the equality act 2010 would make discrimination on the basis of gender unlawful in these circumstances. Other EU countries are likely to have similar statutes. There are countries where religious and cultural norms do not necessarily make gender discrimination illegal.
Despite the reply given above, "fashions" do not come into it.
Despite the reply given above, "fashions" do not come into it.
http://www.lrtt.co.uk/assets/downloa...20Internet.pdf
Applicants must have a valid UK passport
Aged between 16 and 24
EU jobs for UK lads... sounds fair
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Perhaps she should considering getting in in the less conventional way. In saying that, in fact I think it is becoming more conventional to join in a different capacity such as cabin crew, ops, flight planning, crewing etc. It worked for me and many others I work with.
If your friends
hot CV isn't doing the job then I suggest she gets her hands dirty in a so called 'lesser role" and networks!
If your friends
hot CV isn't doing the job then I suggest she gets her hands dirty in a so called 'lesser role" and networks!
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I'm afraid the easy bit was getting the licence, the toughest part is now ahead: Getting a job. Her natural choice, KLM is only just starting to drain its holding pool of 300 or so, Transavia have completed their hiring and to cap it all, she may now be competing with the current Martinair pilots who haven't managed to transition into KLM (due to the action of 30 or so very selfish, prime-donnas). So she is going to have to look abroad. Even if she is a very standard NLS graduate, she should be capable of passing the tests potential employers throw at her. Assuming she'll be your average Dutch girl, she'll also be fluent in a few languages as well. So she is more employable than most but I'm afraid it's time for travelling.
