Life after P2F
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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Life after P2F
A lot has been written about the deplorable state of the industry ... I'm not interested in the moral aspect of P2F, however, but in the actual experience of guys/girls who went that route.
Did you land a "real" job after a SSTR or a linetraining program? Or where you simply poorer, both in terms of money and lifetime?
Would appreciate replies or PM.
Did you land a "real" job after a SSTR or a linetraining program? Or where you simply poorer, both in terms of money and lifetime?
Would appreciate replies or PM.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Life after P2F
Then surely if everyone stopped throwing money away to P2F, the airlines would have to attract pilot's with better T&Cs and salary. It makes great financial sense to an airline if they have hundreds of idiots wanting to pay them or accept crap terms while they make money.
The sad part of all this is that everyone starting out now seems to think this is the way to do things after being sucked into paying thousands at an airline academy, and that it's dog-eat-dog and they have to prostitute themselves for "work". If all new CPL/IR holders stuck together instead of playing into the airline's hands, and stopped paying for TR's and even time on type, then the airlines would suddenly have a very real shortage of pilots, and have to raise their offerings to attract pilots.
Newbies have developed this strange Stockholm syndrome type of mentality out of desperation to get this dream flying job, instead of thinking about their quality of life and return on their investment. All this nonsense about being "in it to win it" is verging on delusional.
The sad part of all this is that everyone starting out now seems to think this is the way to do things after being sucked into paying thousands at an airline academy, and that it's dog-eat-dog and they have to prostitute themselves for "work". If all new CPL/IR holders stuck together instead of playing into the airline's hands, and stopped paying for TR's and even time on type, then the airlines would suddenly have a very real shortage of pilots, and have to raise their offerings to attract pilots.
Newbies have developed this strange Stockholm syndrome type of mentality out of desperation to get this dream flying job, instead of thinking about their quality of life and return on their investment. All this nonsense about being "in it to win it" is verging on delusional.
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A friend of mine just got hired in Dubai after roughly 400 hours on 737 with a base of around $9000, it took him one year. Another one was swallowed by Norwegian and yet another one joined KAL after 2 years of 737 flying. I am myself gonna join the p2f scheme next year as I passed assessment in March. I don't mind spending 21k euro for I know it's an INVESTMENT and no need to attach any philosophy to it. It is as it is, why not accepting time moves forward not backwards to 2007 again? This whole whining and moaning about p2f I see here in every second thread is a bit funny to me. You wanna win in a game where you refuse to even sit at the table for a hand. Creation promotes creativity, flexibility and courage and not focusing on how hard it is and what a victim I am to this cruel world of aviation (or any other). It did take me 5 years to get this job and I got hired twice in the airlines with both of TR courses canceled last minute so I could be bitter if I wanted to but choose not to for the sake of creating the life I want and not that I don't want.
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dear artlite
is not about being afraid of playing the game as you mentioned, is about someone who can afford to spend other thousands of euro in something that is like a gambling.
is becoming a luxury hobby for rich people...that's it!
and in your subconscious you are doing exactly what airlines want...
if you have to money to go for enjoy the ride
is not about being afraid of playing the game as you mentioned, is about someone who can afford to spend other thousands of euro in something that is like a gambling.
is becoming a luxury hobby for rich people...that's it!
and in your subconscious you are doing exactly what airlines want...
if you have to money to go for enjoy the ride
@artlite ... hearing of your employment plans, where you are proposing to work I fear will require more specific knowledge of difficult situations than you may have trained for .... please stay safe.
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Hallo guys,
I was against any p2f scheme. After finishing my flight school I didn't have any
interview for 3 years.
Ryan refused my application without any explanation, they neither invited me for assessment. The only reason I can guess is that I was quite old at the time of application.
I decided to have a look at these p2f programs. I'm a Boeing fan, so I decided to check some indonesian companies or EagleJet.
Each one of us has his own needs, and financial issues, everything was so expensive and so "unsafe". I had just one bullet to fire and I decided to remain in Europe.
I finally landed in Air Baltic training center in Riga, where they showed me their facilities and their program.
The person I spoke with looked so sincere that I decided to join their type rating the same day.
I finished my type rating (including base training) within less then one month, and three months later they offered me their line training.
I had initially 10 months contract, during which I flew 740 hours, and immediately afterwards they offered me another contract (regular and paid this time), as they normally offer a normal contract to 50% of their p2f pilots, based on some promotion system.
I left the company later on and now flying 737 in another company with a permanent contract.
As far as I know, all my colleagues found a job somewhere, is important to start somehow.
What i suggest to all new pilots is first look for a normal contract and later look for a p2f scheme.
Right now Air Baltic is the cheapest in the world and with a great quality.
I just suggest nit to rely on such organizations who sell you programs if not an airline. Nobody can guarantee that you will sit in a cockpit. At least Air Baltic told me this from the beginning, but I've heard about some colleagues who went somewhere, they had troubles and didn't fly at all.... THINK CAREFULLY!!
I was against any p2f scheme. After finishing my flight school I didn't have any
interview for 3 years.Ryan
refused my application without any explanation, they neither invited me for assessment. The only reason I can guess is that I was quite old at the time of application.I decided to have a look at these p2f programs. I'm a Boeing fan, so I decided to check some indonesian companies or EagleJet.
Each one of us has his own needs, and financial issues, everything was so expensive and so "unsafe". I had just one bullet to fire and I decided to remain in Europe.
I finally landed in Air Baltic training center in Riga, where they showed me their facilities and their program.
The person I spoke with looked so sincere that I decided to join their type rating the same day.
I finished my type rating (including base training) within less then one month, and three months later they offered me their line training.
I had initially 10 months contract, during which I flew 740 hours, and immediately afterwards they offered me another contract (regular and paid this time), as they normally offer a normal contract to 50% of their p2f pilots, based on some promotion system.
I left the company later on and now flying 737 in another company with a permanent contract.
As far as I know, all my colleagues found a job somewhere, is important to start somehow.
What i suggest to all new pilots is first look for a normal contract and later look for a p2f scheme.
Right now Air Baltic is the cheapest in the world and with a great quality.
I just suggest nit to rely on such organizations who sell you programs if not an airline. Nobody can guarantee that you will sit in a cockpit. At least Air Baltic told me this from the beginning, but I've heard about some colleagues who went somewhere, they had troubles and didn't fly at all.... THINK CAREFULLY!!
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Good advertisement for AB....
I can go with you long way, BUT.
How many they get the TR with them and how many get LT, not to talk about employment?
I know more people which did not got the LT after TR than that I know of the lucky ones.
School is good, people are kind, they do not promise anything, they are straight, affordable, professional...BUT it is a gambling with lower chances than what it seams to be.
I can go with you long way, BUT.
How many they get the TR with them and how many get LT, not to talk about employment?
I know more people which did not got the LT after TR than that I know of the lucky ones.
School is good, people are kind, they do not promise anything, they are straight, affordable, professional...BUT it is a gambling with lower chances than what it seams to be.
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Well, this thread was written to share our experience, I did with mine.
Of my group 3 out of 4 have been called for line training, i don't know exactly the numbers, but they told me 75% are called for LT, depending on performance.
What I found is that they are honest and don't promise you anything.
The other p2f opportunities, are exactly the same, with the difference that they promise what they cannot promise. Also in eaglejet I've heard about people who passed TR and never flown or people who didn't pass OPC or LC and have been sent home so, you may see, there is not that much difference.....
Of my group 3 out of 4 have been called for line training, i don't know exactly the numbers, but they told me 75% are called for LT, depending on performance.
What I found is that they are honest and don't promise you anything.
The other p2f opportunities, are exactly the same, with the difference that they promise what they cannot promise. Also in eaglejet I've heard about people who passed TR and never flown or people who didn't pass OPC or LC and have been sent home so, you may see, there is not that much difference.....
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Hi, to make the LT there you have to make the TR course with them.
The best will be offered the opportunity for their line training project.
Line training is not guaranteed, this is the first thing that they will tell you. If and only if you will perform very well and you pass the pshycological assessment (that is nothing terrible) then they maybe invite you for LT.
My experience there is very valuable, network is amazing some of us had a new contract (with a regular and good salary) and some from previous LT have now a permanent contract.
This is the main difference with other LT project, is an airline, not a broker, and you have seriously the opportunity to start a career.
The best will be offered the opportunity for their line training project.
Line training is not guaranteed, this is the first thing that they will tell you. If and only if you will perform very well and you pass the pshycological assessment (that is nothing terrible) then they maybe invite you for LT.
My experience there is very valuable, network is amazing some of us had a new contract (with a regular and good salary) and some from previous LT have now a permanent contract.
This is the main difference with other LT project, is an airline, not a broker, and you have seriously the opportunity to start a career.
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For me the problem with LT is the huge cost involved, I'm sure the price tag on these schemes is just the start of it, what about living expenses? Set up costs in a new city etc...
For those that have the money to do it I don't feel cheated by you as some on here say, I know only too well what it's like to have your licenses good to go and nowhere to practice your trade.
I here from my own personal networking that there are some top top pilots to come out of LT & some that are so terrible they should be nowhere near the cockpit of a jetliner
For those that have the money to do it I don't feel cheated by you as some on here say, I know only too well what it's like to have your licenses good to go and nowhere to practice your trade.
I here from my own personal networking that there are some top top pilots to come out of LT & some that are so terrible they should be nowhere near the cockpit of a jetliner
