Aer Lingus Direct Entry First Officers
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Why should I fall on my sword? I currently have a job, nothing against the cadet programs, just that there is a short-circuit in the system.
I think to many are getting frustrated of playing the waiting game, so the threads goes a bit of the rails.
I think to many are getting frustrated of playing the waiting game, so the threads goes a bit of the rails.
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I think the correct solution would be for people to stop self funding training themselves and get their future employers to make that investment in you, not the other way around.
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That's what I'm talking about, that integrated courses be only offered to students with the backing of an Airline.
A far more fair way of doing it than saying airlines should sponsor no one and everyone should do integrated on their own bat. If airlines select the candidates then have them go get trained with the reasonable guarentee of a job at the end, then that'd considerably slow the over supply of pilots on the market, leaving only the self-improver/modular and military methods open to fill any resulting gaps.
A far more fair way of doing it than saying airlines should sponsor no one and everyone should do integrated on their own bat. If airlines select the candidates then have them go get trained with the reasonable guarentee of a job at the end, then that'd considerably slow the over supply of pilots on the market, leaving only the self-improver/modular and military methods open to fill any resulting gaps.
Last edited by Aerlingus231; 27th Jul 2013 at 22:01.
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Would not flying be boring if everybody would just go trough the robotic training that is offered by integrated schools.
You complain about "oversupply" yet you describe cadet schemes as a "short circuit" in the system. Surely the way to regulate that would be to have only cadet schemes. Then it would be more like doctors right?
The current free for all, is unfortunately not beneficial for anyone, it is bringing the industry to it's knees.
I am not for a moment suggesting that we should try and go down the road of "controlling" the pilot supply because that would lead to all sorts of other problems, I'm just saying that cadet schemes are not the reason for lowering T&Cs.
Organisations like CTC, who both train and then regulate the employment of the people they have trained and have close to a monopoly on pilot supply at some airlines are a slightly different question...
Last edited by contacttower118.2; 28th Jul 2013 at 14:56.
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Actually, what was said about medical school admissions is correct. The number of UK medical graduates each year does, in theory, correspond to the number of F1 placements available in the UK as a whole. Medical schools are only provided with funding for this number of students, which is advised upon by the GMC. If a medical school goes over its supposed quota, it's generally down to there having been an excess of (lucrative) foreign students admitted, for whom they won't receive UK funding. Anyone can apply, of course, but they can't all get in. This frequently leaves a number of high school leavers with, on paper, the 'correct' results not gaining a place at a medical school. If there was no relationship to the number of F1 places available, you'd end up with hundreds of doctors with no route to GMC registration, preventing them working either in the UK or elsewhere.
The numbers studying law aren't related to any kind of quota, but there are a ton of law students and graduates who have no intention of ever being a lawyer. The same can't be said for medicine.
I'm saying this from the perspective of having gone to medical school in the UK.
Pilot training, at least non-sponsored, doesn't bear any relationship with the potential number of jobs, as everyone knows.
The numbers studying law aren't related to any kind of quota, but there are a ton of law students and graduates who have no intention of ever being a lawyer. The same can't be said for medicine.
I'm saying this from the perspective of having gone to medical school in the UK.
Pilot training, at least non-sponsored, doesn't bear any relationship with the potential number of jobs, as everyone knows.
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My apologies to truckflyer for doubting his point about doctor admission I was clearly wrong about that and I will edit my original post.
The point that I was making about oversupply and what causes it still stands though.
Another thing at the route of oversupply and poor T&Cs is that fundamentally aviation is one of the "dream" jobs insofar as the majority of people do it because it is what they have always wanted to do and will accept low pay as the price of that dream. Despite mass air travel, the locos and general loss of glamour in the industry it still carries an X factor about it that very few other industries do. This is why, more than anything, it does not follow the laws of supply and demand.
The point that I was making about oversupply and what causes it still stands though.
Another thing at the route of oversupply and poor T&Cs is that fundamentally aviation is one of the "dream" jobs insofar as the majority of people do it because it is what they have always wanted to do and will accept low pay as the price of that dream. Despite mass air travel, the locos and general loss of glamour in the industry it still carries an X factor about it that very few other industries do. This is why, more than anything, it does not follow the laws of supply and demand.
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Many of the FTOs do, however, follow that supply and demand model. So many aspiring pilots willing to take a punt, which seems only to exacerbate the employment / T&Cs problem. The banks have at least realised that; stopping the unsecured loans. I think it's actually quite difficult to get an accurate picture of things until you're in the system (or at least have really spoken to a lot of folk who are). People will happily pull the wool over their own eyes if they think they'll realise a dream. Still, that's possibly an indicator of poor objective judgement.
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One of the issues is that over-supply is good for both the FTO's, as they make more money and for the airlines, as because of this they can squeeze down T & C's of future contracts.
Believe me the view from the inside is pretty dim too, I have met and know so many guys, who have thousands of hours, some also with command time, Airbus 320, B737 - are stuck in jobs that they are very unhappy with.
There used to be a belief that earn your experience, and something good would be out there waiting for you, however now, it's not there anymore.
Sure I appreciate that there should be a mix of cadets and non-cadets, but there is something wrong in society, when there probably in the UK are several thousand pilots without a job, and every month hundreds of more are trained.
If the rumors here are true, that 3000 - 4000 guys applied for around 30 - 50 jobs, just imagine what the problem is.
Imagine a real pilot shortage, what it would mean, the airlines do not want this, and of course the FTO's - just want to sell the dream to as many suckers as they can.
The guys I know, say yes we have 3000 - 4000 - 5000 hours on Airbus, where we go now? There are not many good jobs to move on to anymore, even when you have the experience.
Now this thread was about DE FO's to AL, there is an own thread about cadets to AL, I am not sure why this is a topic here, but for sure if companies want to have a cadet program, they should also give a chance to some of the already trained low hour pilots in the same scheme. The odds of any low hour CPL without jet experience or A320 TR of getting a job as direct entry FO are probably pretty low, as there are pretty many guys with thousands of A320 hours applying for the same job.
Believe me the view from the inside is pretty dim too, I have met and know so many guys, who have thousands of hours, some also with command time, Airbus 320, B737 - are stuck in jobs that they are very unhappy with.
There used to be a belief that earn your experience, and something good would be out there waiting for you, however now, it's not there anymore.
Sure I appreciate that there should be a mix of cadets and non-cadets, but there is something wrong in society, when there probably in the UK are several thousand pilots without a job, and every month hundreds of more are trained.
If the rumors here are true, that 3000 - 4000 guys applied for around 30 - 50 jobs, just imagine what the problem is.
Imagine a real pilot shortage, what it would mean, the airlines do not want this, and of course the FTO's - just want to sell the dream to as many suckers as they can.
The guys I know, say yes we have 3000 - 4000 - 5000 hours on Airbus, where we go now? There are not many good jobs to move on to anymore, even when you have the experience.
Now this thread was about DE FO's to AL, there is an own thread about cadets to AL, I am not sure why this is a topic here, but for sure if companies want to have a cadet program, they should also give a chance to some of the already trained low hour pilots in the same scheme. The odds of any low hour CPL without jet experience or A320 TR of getting a job as direct entry FO are probably pretty low, as there are pretty many guys with thousands of A320 hours applying for the same job.
Last edited by truckflyer; 29th Jul 2013 at 10:16.
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Aer Lingus Direct Entry First Officers
Could we please go back to the original topic?
Has anyone heard about any invitations for interviews from AL already?
Still got everything crossed!!
Has anyone heard about any invitations for interviews from AL already?
Still got everything crossed!!
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They also said for cadets if you haven't heard anything back by 29th of June you're out, not the case people still getting emails a month later so don't stress to much, not yet anyway.
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Magicmick - oops didn't see that, thanks for pointing it out. I'm not sure what to think of it and how my chances are affected by that, I think the best course of action is to not read in to it so much and see what happens.
Vipersrt10 - is that assessment group for the DEFO or cadet applicants?
Vipersrt10 - is that assessment group for the DEFO or cadet applicants?
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Magicmick - oops didn't see that, thanks for pointing it out. I'm not sure what to think of it and how my chances are affected by that, I think the best course of action is to not read in to it so much and see what happens.
Vipersrt10 - is that assessment group for the DEFO or cadet applicants?
Vipersrt10 - is that assessment group for the DEFO or cadet applicants?