Aer Lingus Direct Entry First Officers
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More than 5000??? 
Where is now the advantage of being typerated??
I dont want to know the amount of high experienced guys.
Really really sad. I am considering changing career.
Where is now the advantage of being typerated??
I dont want to know the amount of high experienced guys.
Really really sad. I am considering changing career.
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Does anyone have an estimate on the number of vacancies for the immediate requirement for this? Sounds as if vacancies have opened up due to existing crew being moved onto wide body fleet and/or expansion to other bases. 30, 40, 50...?
Looking at the other thread it looks as if AL HR are busy with the cadet scheme at the moment but I wouldn't be suprised if the phone calls start next week...good luck everyone!
Looking at the other thread it looks as if AL HR are busy with the cadet scheme at the moment but I wouldn't be suprised if the phone calls start next week...good luck everyone!
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Talktomegoose might be right about this one.
HR department seems to be working full time interviewing cadets.
Might be a while until they start inviting direct entry applicants.
More time to refresh your ATPL / A320 knowlegde
Don't be discouraged by the number of applications. Usually more than half of those don't even meet the minimum requirements.
I'd say if you are type rated and did better than average on the pre-tests you are more than likely receiving an invite.
HR department seems to be working full time interviewing cadets.
Might be a while until they start inviting direct entry applicants.
More time to refresh your ATPL / A320 knowlegde
Don't be discouraged by the number of applications. Usually more than half of those don't even meet the minimum requirements.
I'd say if you are type rated and did better than average on the pre-tests you are more than likely receiving an invite.
Join Date: Aug 2010
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The cadet program is being done so that Aer Lingus can select the best pilots, not just the best that were able to afford training. If you disagree with this policy then you'll have a hard time if you ever make it into Aer Lingus as this scheme was pushed for for years by the pilot group in Aer Lingus. I don't see how anyone out there could complain about a cadet scheme being offered. Of course there'll be less DE places than if they recruited by DE only, but this is what has been pushed for for years now at Aer Lingus and was always the way it was done pre 9/11.
The cadet program allows Aer Lingus to train their crews from day 1 in the way they want. It's not a stupid idea and is finally a sign of an airline with a sensible, responsible approach to hiring to pilots instead of this P2F crap we've seen invade the industry.
The cadet program allows Aer Lingus to train their crews from day 1 in the way they want. It's not a stupid idea and is finally a sign of an airline with a sensible, responsible approach to hiring to pilots instead of this P2F crap we've seen invade the industry.
Last edited by Aerlingus231; 26th Jul 2013 at 00:01.
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While they will definitely get people who perform very good in tests, i don't think the cadets will be as highly motivated, as those who self-funded their training without help from a rich daddy.
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I can assure you the selection process for the cadets is extremely rigorous, and with over 4,500 having applied those selected will not only be extremely driven but also extremely loyal to the company. Cadets have historically been exponentially more loyal to Aer Lingus and more likely to spend their entire careers there than their direct entry counterparts and that is why Aer Lingus is investing over €75,000 in each one of them.
Last edited by Aerlingus231; 26th Jul 2013 at 10:30.
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The cadet program is made to grease the wheels, from the airlines to the FTO's - I mean how else would the FTOs survive unless they had DUMB cheap flock that keeps walking over the edge.
Every time the self funded pilots go to the gallow, there will new fresh meat produced by the corporation of FTO's and Airlines lucrative deals together.
Stop being naive, money matters, and there are many greedy people in important positions in many companies these days, and they will tend to help each other increase their profit.
There is NEVER a deal without a GOLDEN HANDSHAKE, somebody somewhere is always getting this, unfortunately because this industry is attracting to many people with to much access to money than brains!
Cadet programs is a way to make people accept lower and lower T & C's in these days programs, as they make you grateful to get a bottle of water and a free uniform with a disgusting crew meal, while others now give you nothing!
Every time the self funded pilots go to the gallow, there will new fresh meat produced by the corporation of FTO's and Airlines lucrative deals together.
Stop being naive, money matters, and there are many greedy people in important positions in many companies these days, and they will tend to help each other increase their profit.
There is NEVER a deal without a GOLDEN HANDSHAKE, somebody somewhere is always getting this, unfortunately because this industry is attracting to many people with to much access to money than brains!
Cadet programs is a way to make people accept lower and lower T & C's in these days programs, as they make you grateful to get a bottle of water and a free uniform with a disgusting crew meal, while others now give you nothing!
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The cadets will be on the same salary as the DEFOs with a €25,000 bond repaid over 3 years. There is no reduced salary, there are no reduced T&Cs. They're on the exact same contract as all other pilots in Aer Lingus.
Infact, as many of the DEFOs will have a €100,000 training load to repay to their financial institution or parents that they used to finance their ATPL and any other ratings in the past, the cadets will likely be in much better position than their DEFO counterparts.
Unless of course you'd rather go work with an airline with a much more responsible and sensible approach to selecting, hiring and training their pilots such as Ryanair, Wizz, EasyJet, Lion Air, Norwegian et al.
Infact, as many of the DEFOs will have a €100,000 training load to repay to their financial institution or parents that they used to finance their ATPL and any other ratings in the past, the cadets will likely be in much better position than their DEFO counterparts.
Unless of course you'd rather go work with an airline with a much more responsible and sensible approach to selecting, hiring and training their pilots such as Ryanair, Wizz, EasyJet, Lion Air, Norwegian et al.
Last edited by Aerlingus231; 26th Jul 2013 at 11:36.
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Lets not derail this thread into a discussion about cadet vs direct entry. We all want the job and bashing your would be future employer is not really what you should be focusing on.
Last edited by Vander; 26th Jul 2013 at 12:07.
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Normally I avoid these discussions like the plague, but this one has got to me - why would anyone trying to get a start in this industry have a problem with cadet programs?
Presumably you'd rather see a continued erosion of conditions for low/no houred applicants. More accurately, you'd rather see a continued decline in pay and conditions for everyone other than yourself. Shame on you. The rest of us will be wishing the cadet applicants the best of luck, and hoping we get a fair shot too.
Presumably you'd rather see a continued erosion of conditions for low/no houred applicants. More accurately, you'd rather see a continued decline in pay and conditions for everyone other than yourself. Shame on you. The rest of us will be wishing the cadet applicants the best of luck, and hoping we get a fair shot too.
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I find it unbelievable that one or two posters are complaining about the Aer Lingus cadet scheme of all things!
Yes it is competitive but it sounds to me like one of the quickest and most secure routes, with good T&Cs to the RHS of an A320!
Some people whine that airlines do not do sponsorship any more.
Some people whine about the MPL despite it bringing more involvement of the partner airline.
Some people whine about schemes like this because it is "unfair" to those who paid and went modular.
Some people whine because of cadets that "daddy paid for".
I'm not saying that all of these complaints are without merit (far from it in some cases) but honestly sometimes reading this forum one gets the sense that some people will NEVER be happy and poke holes in WHATEVER is offered by an airline or a flight school.
Yes it is competitive but it sounds to me like one of the quickest and most secure routes, with good T&Cs to the RHS of an A320!
Some people whine that airlines do not do sponsorship any more.
Some people whine about the MPL despite it bringing more involvement of the partner airline.
Some people whine about schemes like this because it is "unfair" to those who paid and went modular.
Some people whine because of cadets that "daddy paid for".
I'm not saying that all of these complaints are without merit (far from it in some cases) but honestly sometimes reading this forum one gets the sense that some people will NEVER be happy and poke holes in WHATEVER is offered by an airline or a flight school.
Last edited by contacttower118.2; 26th Jul 2013 at 13:22.
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It is not about knocking the cadets, it is the attitude of the industry.
The industry is greedy, they want your money, our money, that makes the FTO's turn around.
If the reality of the industry dawned on everybody, instead of photoshopped jet pictures selling the dream, to people willing to pay with blood and a bit more, to end up getting nothing, no job, and debts that they can never repay, but do you think CTC or OAA or any other FTO's cares about the end result, as long as they can show that a few of their former students got a job, and is living the "dream"
The FTO's need new students, telling the students that their chances of getting a job is close to zero, does not suit them.
The airlines need oversupply of pilots, this way they can keep lowering the T & C' s for everybody.
For the cadets, sure it is a great way to get into the industry, it keeps the FTO's busy, the trainers working, and it keeps current already trained pilots out of a job, as they will be "over-qualified" to apply for the cadet program.
In other educations, example becoming a doctor, it is controlled by admission, this way it keeps a balance between supply and demand.
The current free for all, is unfortunately not beneficial for anyone, it is bringing the industry to it's knees.
The industry is greedy, they want your money, our money, that makes the FTO's turn around.
If the reality of the industry dawned on everybody, instead of photoshopped jet pictures selling the dream, to people willing to pay with blood and a bit more, to end up getting nothing, no job, and debts that they can never repay, but do you think CTC or OAA or any other FTO's cares about the end result, as long as they can show that a few of their former students got a job, and is living the "dream"
The FTO's need new students, telling the students that their chances of getting a job is close to zero, does not suit them.
The airlines need oversupply of pilots, this way they can keep lowering the T & C' s for everybody.
For the cadets, sure it is a great way to get into the industry, it keeps the FTO's busy, the trainers working, and it keeps current already trained pilots out of a job, as they will be "over-qualified" to apply for the cadet program.
In other educations, example becoming a doctor, it is controlled by admission, this way it keeps a balance between supply and demand.
The current free for all, is unfortunately not beneficial for anyone, it is bringing the industry to it's knees.
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A lot of what you say is true, the industry is greedy and all about the money, but you seem to be missing a few facts here.
Aer Lingus pays it's pilots a set salary. They're not paid per hour so for Aer Lingus having an oversupply of pilots is a bad thing. Aer Lingus pilots are pushed right up to the 900 hour limit and they only employ as many pilots as they need, not like other airlines that make a profit simply out of hiring pilots and it doesn't cost them a cent to keep them on the payroll.
This has nothing to do with keeping FTOs in business. The FTO has not been selected yet. Aer Lingus is the the business of making money for Aer Lingus, not for keeping FTOs in business.
This is Aer Lingus taking an admission based approach to the industry once again, it's training those that it wants, no more, no less.
You seem to be confusing Aer Lingus and FTOs a lot in your argument. This is not a whim Aer Lingus are acting on, they're putting substantial quantities of money into training it's future pilots, it's covering €100,000 worth of training and type-ratings for these cadets out of it's own pockets. This is not a part sponsorship like other airlines offer where if you do the training they sorta kinda maybe might employ you at the end, this is the real deal.
Aer Lingus pays it's pilots a set salary. They're not paid per hour so for Aer Lingus having an oversupply of pilots is a bad thing. Aer Lingus pilots are pushed right up to the 900 hour limit and they only employ as many pilots as they need, not like other airlines that make a profit simply out of hiring pilots and it doesn't cost them a cent to keep them on the payroll.
This has nothing to do with keeping FTOs in business. The FTO has not been selected yet. Aer Lingus is the the business of making money for Aer Lingus, not for keeping FTOs in business.
This is Aer Lingus taking an admission based approach to the industry once again, it's training those that it wants, no more, no less.
You seem to be confusing Aer Lingus and FTOs a lot in your argument. This is not a whim Aer Lingus are acting on, they're putting substantial quantities of money into training it's future pilots, it's covering €100,000 worth of training and type-ratings for these cadets out of it's own pockets. This is not a part sponsorship like other airlines offer where if you do the training they sorta kinda maybe might employ you at the end, this is the real deal.
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Having much experience from business, I can maybe see things a bit more sinister than most who only live and breath for aviation.
Yes what you say about AL's program is partly right, however most such deals, between airline and FTO's are made by connections and not a random FTO.
There was a recent case where SAS employed 6 "cadet pilots" - that had graduated by a certain FTO, who was owned by 2 SAS captains.
You and me, we do not normally get full insight in such deals and agreements, and we often do not know the reality of such contracts between airlines and FTO's, however there is always an interest of money that decides who gets to do what.
Often there are individuals in the background cashing in big time on such deals and agreements, to secure agreements between companies.
I am pretty sure like CTC, they wine and dine the right people, to give them support for their programs, and I am pretty sure such companies secures these agreements with more than just wine and dinner, sinister but true.
Fairness does not exist in business. He who pays the most, wins the most.
Yes what you say about AL's program is partly right, however most such deals, between airline and FTO's are made by connections and not a random FTO.
There was a recent case where SAS employed 6 "cadet pilots" - that had graduated by a certain FTO, who was owned by 2 SAS captains.
You and me, we do not normally get full insight in such deals and agreements, and we often do not know the reality of such contracts between airlines and FTO's, however there is always an interest of money that decides who gets to do what.
Often there are individuals in the background cashing in big time on such deals and agreements, to secure agreements between companies.
I am pretty sure like CTC, they wine and dine the right people, to give them support for their programs, and I am pretty sure such companies secures these agreements with more than just wine and dinner, sinister but true.
Fairness does not exist in business. He who pays the most, wins the most.
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Can't say I agree so much,The Cadet program is a great way into the industry sure I applied and still holding out hope for the next stage.
There's more than enough Irish folk flying around Europe and the world to fill the boots of pilots EI need, I know a few to say the least who'd kill to get a chance to come home. Okay some have to pay to fly, you tell me what European operator who's hiring consistently low houred pilots and will pay for type rating
Most jobs require experience on jet anyway plus that experience/Hours on jet will come in extremely handy.
As for the DE & cadets who stay loyal to the airline sure there's plenty of them who have, Others who have not! Many of whom all f*ck back off to the UK and so on flying for another well known flag carrier. The problem is EI hiring non-Irish citizens maybe if they stuck to the island north and south of the border there would be More DE & cadet loyalty(Even if they are based in Gatwick)
There's more than enough Irish folk flying around Europe and the world to fill the boots of pilots EI need, I know a few to say the least who'd kill to get a chance to come home. Okay some have to pay to fly, you tell me what European operator who's hiring consistently low houred pilots and will pay for type rating
Most jobs require experience on jet anyway plus that experience/Hours on jet will come in extremely handy.
As for the DE & cadets who stay loyal to the airline sure there's plenty of them who have, Others who have not! Many of whom all f*ck back off to the UK and so on flying for another well known flag carrier. The problem is EI hiring non-Irish citizens maybe if they stuck to the island north and south of the border there would be More DE & cadet loyalty(Even if they are based in Gatwick)
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"The problem is EI hiring non-Irish citizens "
That goes both ways, in the end it balances itself out. Don't see why they should be limited just to employing the Irish, as without the rest of EU Eire would be down the drain now unfortunately.
Personally they seem to be a good company compared to many others, however with RyR lurking in the background, I hope the line does not get crossed.
The question is not if the cadet program is good or bad, it is more the constant oversupply of pilots, making T & C's suffer.
That goes both ways, in the end it balances itself out. Don't see why they should be limited just to employing the Irish, as without the rest of EU Eire would be down the drain now unfortunately.
Personally they seem to be a good company compared to many others, however with RyR lurking in the background, I hope the line does not get crossed.
The question is not if the cadet program is good or bad, it is more the constant oversupply of pilots, making T & C's suffer.
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The question is not if the cadet program is good or bad, it is more the constant oversupply of pilots, making T & C's suffer.