CTC Qatar Wings

[Stone_cold]

Hey Momo95 , if you are in fact employed in QR and since you seem to have so much confidence in your management and your job security and your personal ability to follow all the rules you signed up for . Do you keep your salary in Qatar banks or do you like most , if not all expats transfer out all non-essential funds ASAP ? just in case ??

[Wirbelsturm]

I am responsible enough and have, for the past 26 years, been responsible enough to turn up to work sober, well rested and fit for my job. I can set those parameters for myself as can the vast majority of my colleagues. I don't need some jumped up half wit demanding what I do and writing ludicrous rules into a handbook of a company.


I see who I wish, I fraternise with who I wish, live where I wish (as long as I am confident I can get to work) go out where I wish, sleep where I wish and I would resent any employer (yes including the military) trying to tell me, a consenting adult, otherwise. Think about what sort of regime would demand these rules. Doha is a dump. You will never be 'local' the locals will always be preferential rostered before you, you have NO job security and you have no fundamental right of access to your finances.


If you are prepared to give up these basic, fundamental freedom rights for the 'privilege' of sitting in a shiny jet then I'm afraid either your background was terrible or you are far too naive and trusting.


But what the hell, go for it.

[momo95]

You guys seem to be having a hard time understanding that i'm not defending qr's rules (despite me mentioning it repeatedly). I'm merely saying if you don't like them, then don't join . And qatar does not watch it's pilots anywhere near as much as cc, stop trying to create a hysteria about nothing. I have spoken to 4 qr pilots (2 of which captains) and they all said the rules are strict, but if you fully understand and are OK with what you're signing up for, you won't have a problem.
Where you have gotten the notion I work for qr from I don't know. Now before you say I can't possibly be informed about qr, I will safely take the advice of 4 real qr pilots (1 of whom I know closely) than that of someone off pprune.

As for either having a terrible background or naive, well what an assuming person you must be. So there isn't a possibility that someone doesn't drink and has no intention of going to doha other than to work and socialise in a way that doesn't involve drinking or staying up till 4 am, there either a spoilt brat or naive ???

[Wirbelsturm]

I think you misunderstood the context of my post.


If you are willing to accept the restrictions on your basic fundamental rights, irrespective of whether you partake or not, by an overbearing, controlling and manipulative employer than either you don't understand your fundamental rights as an employee i.e. naïve or you have come from a regime which is worse and therefore the conditions in Qatar are a step up.


I fully agree, don't join if you don't want to. But many will ignore the bad stuff for the idea of flying a boring big jet aged in their 20's. Go figure.

[Stone_cold]

You spoke with such authority on the goings on in QR , I assumed that you had first hand experience .

Thus , I will assume that you are seeking this opportunity with the cadet programme for your big break into Jets . You are willing to disregard the plight of fellow human beings ( the CC ) , as long as it serves your personal benefit .

Ask your friends then , if they would recommend QR before EY or EK and why ? Ask them if they are confident that they could not be fired tomorrow for nothing or the rules changed tomorrow . Ask them , as I asked you , do they keep their salaries in Doha ? Why not ?

You are naive to think that the same rules don't apply to Pilot's , just a different level .( btw , the CC live in guarded apartments , since you noted that the Pilots live in Guarded compounds ) .No cameras , no swiping of ID BUT in case your friends didn't mention , your guests are monitored and details recorded
So again I say , jump at your opportunity , but don't try to justify your decision as being okay because only your fellow employees are subject to slave like restrictions and you will be privileged .

This forum is free and maybe you have the means to check with current pilot's . Others may not , so the info posted here may assist them in making a more informed decision . Because you don't agree and eagerly want the opportunity , doesn't give you the right to deny others a differing view . And I have worked there , so I think I can speak with more authority on the subject than you .

[momo95]

I never said qr was better than ek or ey. I'm saying that this is the only opportunity for many people, and it doesn't seem right you coming on here and exaggerating the situation. Just because you worked/work for qr and had a bad experience doesn't mean everyone else will. Now I will take the advice off 4 real people more than an alleged person who claims to have experience off pprune any day. The fact you think i'm willing to take advantage of the 'plight' of others for my own benefit is just a sign of ignorance. At what point did I say I don't mind others being treated badly ? This thread is for the pilot profession and so unlike you I feel it's necessary to differentiate between what happens to pilots and cc. I said pilots from the qwings course live in guarded compounds (like cc) only for the first few months, when they upgrade to first officer they're on their own.

"This forum is free ... Because you don't agree ... doesn't give you the right to deny others a differing view"

You're the one who is trying to deny others their right to an opinion, not me. You spoke of your discontent for qr, I gave a slightly different view in a peaceful manner, then you replied with an aggressive statement because I didn't give a similar view to yours ... the hypocrisy !! So in other words, unless someone complies with your views they're denying everyone else a right to information ??

You sum up the issue in your last sentence. Just because you worked there you think you have the only authority to give a view. Well i'm trying to help those that know no pilots at qr by letting them know that there are many pilots who have a different view to yours and aren't so unhappy with the company, something you don't seem to like.

[Stone_cold]

You say that I exaggerate the situation , but you haven't been there . Quite hilarious . I haven't said you were wrong . I just state some of the things which I have seen . You imply that the bad rules only apply to CC ,and that as long as you are a privileged pilot , then don't worry about anyone else . They are human also . I never claimed to have had a bad experience personally , so again you assume , but I have seen a lot . Your friends are right , if everything goes well , you can enjoy a nice time there , BUT , if things go wrong .they can go very wrong . So , again , you can state your case , and I can state mine . The individuals who want to interpret can take away what they want . And yes it may be a good opportunity for many , but some may value freedom over what is on offer .

[momo95]

"I never claimed to have had a bad experience personally"

"some may value freedom over what is on offer"

So you've claimed to have a good experience then have you ???

"You imply that the bad rules only apply to CC ,and that as long as you are a privileged pilot , then don't worry about anyone else"

What an awful way to twist my words. You were trying to make it sound like cc and pilots follow the same rules, I correctly pointed out it wasn't the case. I'm trying to get the facts straight here and get a balanced view while you seem to have a different agenda.

[G-F0RC3]

Never happy unless you're involved in a good argument are you momo?

However, I agree in part with what momo is saying. If you understand the rules beforehand and either don't agree with them or can't see yourself sticking to them, then why contract yourself to them? You go into an entirely different culture if you join some foreign airline (particularly if it's somewhere in the Asia Pacific region), so you had better ensure you understand the local traditions and expectations.

Personally, this is one of many reasons why I wouldn't consider such airlines. I'd rather stick to my current career than be pinned down by terms that I didn't agree with. At what point does it become live to work, rather than work to live?

On the other hand, I don't think it's a bad thing to challenge what you disagree with. I can happily sit here (because I've no intentions of putting myself in a position whereby my opinions might jeopardise my career) and say that I totally disagree that the airline you work for has any business whatsoever telling you when you shouldn't drink/socialise during your time off. As long as your actions do not prevent you from carrying out your duties in a responsible, professional and legal manner, it shouldn't matter.

[Stone_cold]

Gforc . This is correct , if all the issues are told to you prior to you accepting the employment then you agree and sign on the bottom line . However , all is not told and things change overnight without your agreement . Example , overnight : Qatar stopped providing connecting flights home for flight crew that lived off of Qatar's network . Not a small issue , when you have a family and now have to buy full fare tickets ( peak season holidays ) . Arguably this was not guaranteed in the contract , but was promised prior to hiring and provided for years and withdrawn with the last salary increase .
Payment for overtime was another " change " at the previous salary adjustment .Another thing which may be of interest to Momo , being " on your own " is not always an advantage as the allowance given is not sufficient , but is another benefit changed as from 2005/2006 housing had been provided ( good luck with the landlords as 2020 approaches ) . I am not about to provide a laundry list here , but I was once told by the guy in charge of recruitment at the time , that his job wasn't about Pilot retention , just to get them to join ( so he said whatever he needed to in order to maintain his quota) . So although i agree that if you go in after being warned , then accept what you get , but it is not so simple in the Middle East and it surprises many ,so while he has all the relevant info and is happy , others may wish to question more .

As for the drinking which Momo refers to , there is no rule for anyone prohibiting this . "0.0" tolerance . CC cannot have in their accommodation , but can go out to the clubs etc. , so everyone can party and drink to the wee hours . And this is where I started to disagree with you . They have a curfew , even on their days off , and this restriction is more what the article alludes to . No one is saying they should be allowed to drink and work .All get fired for doing this .

Momo said " This only really applies to the cc. I don't think pilots face such scrutiny. Proof from the article itself is that the pilot who broke the rules was given a warning, whereas a cc member would have been sacked."

Twisting your words ??

No , the life experience was not good ...just not horrible , personally .

I agree that the scrutiny is not as intrusive on a personal level for the Pilot , but was in place for a while ( not sure about now ) at the Holiday Villas . So it can happen . My point was that the same rules can be imposed to everyone if they wish . It is their train set and the what you sign up for may not be what you end up with .

So Momo , as we continue to disagree , it's not an issue and it is by no means personal , just note that I can state what I observed , you say " you think " .

[Stone_cold]

Actually , what is normal on these forums is that generally speaking a lot of those come here seeking good info and anyone who puts a negative spin on things " has a chip " . Its called Justification bias , so you can listen to all the good . I have said all facts including some good . Check with your friends . I am not alone , there are many threads , and this latest article is not the only negative one on QR and Qatar . So for you , the only correct info is what you want to hear . I can post the links if you wish .

I challenge you , the legal dept. of QR , AAB or your 4 friends to dispute that I have not given correct info on this site as you so accuse .

I didn't twist your words .I quoted exactly what you said . "It only applies to cabin crew" which seems to indicate that as long as you are a Pilot then its ok , these rules and punishment won't apply .If you didn't mean that , then fine ,but they are humans and many do not have much options either . Just remember ,you treat them well when you get there because they report ( or used to ) directly to the CEO , the Pilots don't .

[Wirbelsturm]

I recommend that you guys spend some years in the military

Thanks, been there, done that. It still never had the restrictions on personal liberties that I have seen and heard of from colleagues in Doha. With the exception of operational deployments I still had the liberty to live where I wished, see who I wished and do as I wished.


Plus I got to play with lots of very fast and very expensive toys.


Now I play with the big, well paid boring stuff. It is boring flying though. Just remember that.


Enjoy the sand pit.

[G-F0RC3]

Not really tennisten:

"Almost 200 Nepalese men are reported to have died last year working on construction projects in Qatar.

The International Trade Union Confederation says up to 4,000 could die by 2022 if current laws persist.

Qatar had until 12 February to inform football's world governing body, Fifa, how it would reform working practices.

The new 50-page charter has been developed in conjunction with the International Labour Organisation.

As well as 185 deaths last year, it is believed a significant number of workers in Qatar suffered injuries as a result of unsafe working practices.

There have also been complaints about the standard of accommodation many workers live in."

Read more at: BBC Sport - Qatar 2022: New charter to protect World Cup workers

Perhaps it's different for pilots and cabin crew (although it would be naive to think that Qatar Airways is untouched by it), but it's perfectly clear to me that Qatar doesn't put the same value on the safety and living standards of its employees as we - in the UK - do (although we are still far from perfect - but that's a different debate).

So if you take advice from people who work in Qatar then I'd be careful to ensure they are comparing their working conditions there with what you - as a westerner - might expect, rather than comparing their working conditions with the poor guys who are losing their lives on an almost daily basis.

[Korean]

Did anybody here have phase 4 interview in Doha??

[rickycari]

i am also waiting for phase 4 , does anyone have idea of when will the next phase 4 be around . How can you get the phase 4 in Qatar ?

[bigapple05]

Hello!

I'm also about to apply but I have some questions:

-> Should we do the medical exams before applying? I mean, if we're not medically fit we shouldn't even pay the 210£, right? If yes, are class 1 medical exams made abroad (in other european countries, for instance) valid and accepted by CTC?

-> If Qatar Airways fires us before we reach 1500 hours, what do we have to do (and what's the price, obviously) to be able to apply to other companies?

-> How hard is it to pass through phases 2&3? Bearing in mind your experiences, what was the average percentage of people that actually made it through? As you have probably already seen by this post, english is not my mother tongue, but I think I have a quite good english (I'm doing the CAE in March). Would this be a problem in terms of selection? Are there a lot of non-native english speakers applying and being selected?

In my understanding, it's better to invest a lot having the perspective of a job at the end than to invest less money but without any perspectives of a steady job. This said, which MPL or other programs would you recommend besides this one?

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

bigapple05

In my opinion:

-> I'd only do the medical first if you have doubts about your fitness to fly. Chances are that any underlying medical conditions / eyesight issues you will already be aware of so i don't see any reason to faff around getting a class one medical before even applying for training. And if you do your medical in Europe you will get an EASA Class one medical that will be valid world wide.

-> This is the big question. I don't think it is a definite No. Have a read of this thread: http://www.pprune.org/interviews-job...t-licence.html

-> I haven't done selection (yet), but i do know that CTC test against a standard and if you meet the standard you can train with them, Qatar on the other hand may pit you against other applicants based on phase 3 and 4. For non english speakers you need to have IELTS Level 6 proof.

Personally I would get an offer first before spending money on medicals etc, although this does mean paying for selection first. Which ever way you look at it you will be spending a eye watering amount of money to train so you may as well save the pennies now. If you are comparing the Qatar wings MPL route to the CTC Wings fATPL route the overall cost difference is smaller than you think once you factor in getting a type rating on your fATPL. You also have to consider the pay in the long run, if the mumblings about the healthy salary at Qatar are true then paying off your training debt will be a lot easier than it would be flying for a low cost European carrier. Plus the progression potential at Qatar is looking really quite good with a whole stack of new aircraft on the order books.

[Hagop]

This thread has gone very quite lately..
Did anyone start training yet? Is there a legal contract between the cadet and the airline that a guaranteed position awaits him after he completes this MPL programme? I have read that the cadet upon completion of the course will become a SO for 6 months, but just reading through the threads, is there really the possibility to extend the time interval to around 1-1.5 years before upgrading to a FO position?
Cheers!

[bigapple05]

Which referees did you choose? Did CTC actually contact them? How should we choose them?

[The Maverick]

Hey guys, has anyone heard if CTC are recruiting for Qatar while recruitment for the BA scheme is still on going? Has anyone received an invite for assessment since December?