Pilot Apprentice - Jet 2
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I don't know whatever happened to flight planners who were experienced at planning and pilots who flew the aircraft. This just seems a way to save money on employing the proper people to do the job right first time. If I was at Jet2 I would like to think that when I picked up the phone and called Ops that it would be answered by someone who was an expert at their job and not someone pushing buttons who will more than likely tell me "but that is what the computer is telling me".
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From the outside, but as a pilot of 13 years and a current Captain:
This seems fair enough to me.
If you've got a FATPL, can't find a job, are in debt and prepared to wait.
It reminds me of the Air Atlantique "FUGLY" sponsorship deal slightly.
Stop moaning, go learn the ropes and enjoy your B737 course in 18 months.
But, then again, I guess 18 months is too long to wait for our 200 hour heroes of today. They'd rather pay today, get shafted tomorrow.
This seems fair enough to me.
If you've got a FATPL, can't find a job, are in debt and prepared to wait.
It reminds me of the Air Atlantique "FUGLY" sponsorship deal slightly.
Stop moaning, go learn the ropes and enjoy your B737 course in 18 months.
But, then again, I guess 18 months is too long to wait for our 200 hour heroes of today. They'd rather pay today, get shafted tomorrow.
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NR,
I have no real issue with the concept; but it's not an apprenticeship if you're already qualified, and have spent fortunes to be in that position.
Air Atlantique actually sponsored you through your CPL/IR - and still do!
I have no real issue with the concept; but it's not an apprenticeship if you're already qualified, and have spent fortunes to be in that position.
Air Atlantique actually sponsored you through your CPL/IR - and still do!
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Contact Approach,
Why would you be qualified to be an airline Ops professional, or go through the management training that Jet2 are offering on the basis of holding a FATPL?
You may hold the very basic legal requirement to seek employment as a First Officer, but most FATPL holders wouldn't know how to work a shift in Ops or another airline department.
I see this as a good opportunity to get a good reputation early on in a career and then be paid to fly an aeroplane - all this in an economy and business that has tanked.
Why would you be qualified to be an airline Ops professional, or go through the management training that Jet2 are offering on the basis of holding a FATPL?
You may hold the very basic legal requirement to seek employment as a First Officer, but most FATPL holders wouldn't know how to work a shift in Ops or another airline department.
I see this as a good opportunity to get a good reputation early on in a career and then be paid to fly an aeroplane - all this in an economy and business that has tanked.
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NR,
You wouldn't be qualified, and that is my point. It is not an apprenticeship if you need already be qualified. I can't apply for this because I haven't got the professional qualifications necessary to apply (f-atpl), and there is no scheme in place to enable me to access funding to gain such qualifications:
Apprenticeship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
How is this a Pilot apprenticeship if the Pilot-training bit has already been achieved prior, and as such the very skills/training the apprenticeship offers has little to do with the profession it so states?
If it is a Pilot apprenticeship then the requirements should stand at academics, aptitude and motivation, surely?
The day-to-day work may still be the same - ops/planning/admin etc - with flight training incorporated; the goal being a route into the RHS after X months/years. Hence, a Pilot Apprenticeship.
I ask again: what is the point?
You wouldn't be qualified, and that is my point. It is not an apprenticeship if you need already be qualified. I can't apply for this because I haven't got the professional qualifications necessary to apply (f-atpl), and there is no scheme in place to enable me to access funding to gain such qualifications:
Apprenticeship is a system of training a new generation of practitioners of a structured competency based set of skills. Apprenticeships ranged from craft occupations or trades to those seeking a professional license to practice in a regulated profession. Apprentices (or in early modern usage "prentices") or protégés build their careers from apprenticeships. Most of their training is done while working for an employer who helps the apprentices learn their trade or profession, in exchange for their continuing labor for an agreed period after they have achieved measurable competencies. For more advanced apprenticeships, theoretical education was also involved, with jobs and farming over a period of 46 years.
How is this a Pilot apprenticeship if the Pilot-training bit has already been achieved prior, and as such the very skills/training the apprenticeship offers has little to do with the profession it so states?
If it is a Pilot apprenticeship then the requirements should stand at academics, aptitude and motivation, surely?
The day-to-day work may still be the same - ops/planning/admin etc - with flight training incorporated; the goal being a route into the RHS after X months/years. Hence, a Pilot Apprenticeship.
I ask again: what is the point?
Last edited by Contact Approach; 4th Feb 2013 at 23:06.
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The "pilot apprentice" position at Jet2 is not new and isn't associated with the government apprentice scheme.
Personally I think paid work in airline ops and a free type rating and job out of it is far better than being unemployed and paying for your own TR in hope of something coming along.
Good luck to those that apply.
Personally I think paid work in airline ops and a free type rating and job out of it is far better than being unemployed and paying for your own TR in hope of something coming along.
Good luck to those that apply.
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First off, the ticket to commercial flying does not cost £100k. I repeat does not. If IR and MCC bit held back I claim it can be done for about £20-25k, £15k for IR and £2k for MCC. At least four years ago when I went through the process. MCC can be bypassed if 500 hours done with air taxi people. CAA will issue you with MCC thereupon.
The Jet2 Apprentice Scheme is worth considering for everyone with no light in sight. For everyone else it's not.
Everything a pilot really needs to know is, well, surprise, surprise, occurring in the air. Please don't tell me you'll have to work 18 month alongside groundcrew to understand their responsibilities. I value and honor their work but sorry I, as a pilot, need to fly as much as possible to become a safe operator.
In my book, this scheme is a brilliant idea to find highly motivated, at best intelligent to boot, people, to fill the positions of dispatcher, etc. No more, no less.
Best thing to do is, still, get ticket cheaply and hold cash back for first few years until your career has become self-sustained.
Then keep your logbook rolling, learn, and wait for your opportunity with Jet2 to arise: as direct entry pilot.
This career requires a huge deal of what many of today's generation no longer seem to possess: patience.
The Jet2 Apprentice Scheme is worth considering for everyone with no light in sight. For everyone else it's not.
Everything a pilot really needs to know is, well, surprise, surprise, occurring in the air. Please don't tell me you'll have to work 18 month alongside groundcrew to understand their responsibilities. I value and honor their work but sorry I, as a pilot, need to fly as much as possible to become a safe operator.
In my book, this scheme is a brilliant idea to find highly motivated, at best intelligent to boot, people, to fill the positions of dispatcher, etc. No more, no less.
Best thing to do is, still, get ticket cheaply and hold cash back for first few years until your career has become self-sustained.
Then keep your logbook rolling, learn, and wait for your opportunity with Jet2 to arise: as direct entry pilot.
This career requires a huge deal of what many of today's generation no longer seem to possess: patience.
but it's not an apprenticeship if you're already qualified,
To those others who are saying "I am a pilot - I do not need to work on the ground" - get a life - and some humility! This is a chance to eventually get a flying job with a major airline - WITH A FREE TYPE-RATING!!! Very few of these exist in Europe today.
The Jet2 Apprentice Scheme is worth considering for everyone with no light in sight. For everyone else it's not.
In my book, this scheme is a brilliant idea to find highly motivated, at best intelligent to boot, people, to fill the positions of dispatcher, etc. No more, no less.
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GL,
Chillax.
There's a whole bunch of guys out there already flying, i.e. FIs, taxi, tugging, etc. In my book they're already flying and waiting for next door to open. Yes, it might be a free 73 rating but before grounding themselves for 18 months in the current climate and giving up their flying jobs, pay or no pay, I'm sure most will think veeeery hard.
Who says that Jet2 will be true to their word? From what I hear and read about the airline it must be a great place to be so I'm sure they most likely will. However, I'd be giving up control of my own fate and I don't like it. Fall out with a coworker and two weeks before completion of the program you're told nay, not you. Sorry, carrot springs to mind... It's happened before. The biz is throat-cutting.
As much as I myself would love to join this airline I am not prepared to ground myself for 18 months.
People like CTC grads, who I understand are drowning at the hundreds in the chilly CTC pool at this point in time, will see this as a welcome opportunity to avoid Flexiscrew. And I don't blame them.
As far as I'm concerned, Jet2 have in the past, and I'd hope are going to in the future, hire the occasional TP guy or gal. And it's my understanding with that company that depending on your level of experience you will be also given a rating with a bond. No doubt about it it won't be easy to secure one of those places, as they will be few and far between.
I myself am employed already on a pretty sweet deal I find. It's not 73 yet but a lot of fun, good pay and great experience. Our guys fly close to max flight hours every year, why would I be grounding myself for 18 months?
And lastly, don't you worry about me, I have done my fair share of several years of hard, physical labor to never forget where my place is.
To correct one figure in my previous post though: indeed rates for flight training in the UK have gone up. Having redone the math I'd claim one can complete training towards the JAR CPL for £25k though, which would allow the holder to do VFR work, i.e. aerial photography, dropping jumpers, etc.
Chillax.
There's a whole bunch of guys out there already flying, i.e. FIs, taxi, tugging, etc. In my book they're already flying and waiting for next door to open. Yes, it might be a free 73 rating but before grounding themselves for 18 months in the current climate and giving up their flying jobs, pay or no pay, I'm sure most will think veeeery hard.
Who says that Jet2 will be true to their word? From what I hear and read about the airline it must be a great place to be so I'm sure they most likely will. However, I'd be giving up control of my own fate and I don't like it. Fall out with a coworker and two weeks before completion of the program you're told nay, not you. Sorry, carrot springs to mind... It's happened before. The biz is throat-cutting.
As much as I myself would love to join this airline I am not prepared to ground myself for 18 months.
People like CTC grads, who I understand are drowning at the hundreds in the chilly CTC pool at this point in time, will see this as a welcome opportunity to avoid Flexiscrew. And I don't blame them.
As far as I'm concerned, Jet2 have in the past, and I'd hope are going to in the future, hire the occasional TP guy or gal. And it's my understanding with that company that depending on your level of experience you will be also given a rating with a bond. No doubt about it it won't be easy to secure one of those places, as they will be few and far between.
I myself am employed already on a pretty sweet deal I find. It's not 73 yet but a lot of fun, good pay and great experience. Our guys fly close to max flight hours every year, why would I be grounding myself for 18 months?
And lastly, don't you worry about me, I have done my fair share of several years of hard, physical labor to never forget where my place is.
To correct one figure in my previous post though: indeed rates for flight training in the UK have gone up. Having redone the math I'd claim one can complete training towards the JAR CPL for £25k though, which would allow the holder to do VFR work, i.e. aerial photography, dropping jumpers, etc.
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If the salary for the first 18 months is decent I can't see why this wouldn't be a good opportunity apart from not being in regular flying practice straight away. But it is dependent on salary, if your on an a apprentice like salary for 18 months it could be as little as 16-18K a year.
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GL,
You may not be qualified to fly the 737, but you are qualified to seek employment as a professional pilot.
I agree, it gives good exposure to the workings of the industry, but it should not require a f-atpl to apply - perhaps PPL and atpl's at the very most.
You may not be qualified to fly the 737, but you are qualified to seek employment as a professional pilot.
I agree, it gives good exposure to the workings of the industry, but it should not require a f-atpl to apply - perhaps PPL and atpl's at the very most.
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Perhaps instead of being called a 'pilot apprenticeship' it should instead be called something along the lines of 'jet airline pilot' apprentice...?!
Seems to more accurately reflect the fact that you need to already be a qualified pilot to apply, but this will teach you to pilot a jet airliner?
Seems to more accurately reflect the fact that you need to already be a qualified pilot to apply, but this will teach you to pilot a jet airliner?
For example, it is estimated that between now and 2030 European airlines will need to recruit 92,500 new pilots.
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Lets be honest, this is a load of rubbish. It is certainly not an apprenticeship in any way shape or form.
If you already have an fATPL then you do not need any of this 'experience of ops' blah blah thats what line training and captains are for - they teach you the ways, take the good leave the bad.
When was the last time you flew with a Captain who you thought was great, someone who made good decisions and looked after the crew? Had he or she had a 'pilot apprenticeship'?
If you already have an fATPL then you do not need any of this 'experience of ops' blah blah thats what line training and captains are for - they teach you the ways, take the good leave the bad.
When was the last time you flew with a Captain who you thought was great, someone who made good decisions and looked after the crew? Had he or she had a 'pilot apprenticeship'?
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Granted the experience will be useful to some degree, if not just to gain exposure and a consideration for what goes on outside of the FD. But the requirements are completely absurd, and it is not an apprenticeship.
Why can't this be open to those who wish to gain a f-atpl and subsequently a position as an FO with Jet2?? Perhaps then, a 'pilot apprenticeship' would seem more fitting.
It should not be aimed at those already qualified; what is the point?
CA
Why can't this be open to those who wish to gain a f-atpl and subsequently a position as an FO with Jet2?? Perhaps then, a 'pilot apprenticeship' would seem more fitting.
It should not be aimed at those already qualified; what is the point?
CA
Last edited by Contact Approach; 5th Feb 2013 at 14:15.
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Simples: my impression is from reading aviation job sites there's a constant shortage of competent ops staff, i.e. dispatcher. I frequently see ads with companies looking. I could imagine that job quite hectic at times but not necessarily well paid so hard to attract well-educated folk doing a promising, reliable job. So to fill that position with a kid holding a fATPL, desperate and willing enough to do just about anything while receiving only little pay, and not having to worry to recruit someone else for 18 month, only to give him/her an in-house rating at the end of it, which will be, let's face it, of little expense to the company, is a pretty smart move.
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Making up the rules as they go along...
To be honest,I agree with Contact approach.Also, I find disheartening that someone who had to start from somewhere too,would call us "200hr heroes of today".
First,this is not an apprenticeship in any way.And 'CA',I think the point is written between the lines,they need people to cover ops jobs and whoever accepts this opportunity will be working to the bones,earning very little and doing whatever he/she is told to,because they don't want to miss the opportunity of a B737 type rating.How much does a fully qualified ops worker earn and how much does apprenticeships pays?And the people who comes up with this "fantastic" ideas are the hypocritical oldies who make up the rules as they go along,its a self full-filing prophecy.I am told that my 250hrs aren't good enough to join the likes of Easyjet for example,but yet,they hire MPL's who only touch an aircraft for the total of 85hrs,the remaining is simulator all the way,so apparently they are "better" prepared individuals...please don't tell me that this are management driven decisions as I am pretty sure the Captains of the industry were involved in this farce.Also,I wont Join BA as I didn't go to OAA even tho I have met many of their cadets who knew absolute nothing,they claim their training is the 'bees-kness'.And this Jet2 "opportunity" rules me out as I feel that I have been through this experience,I have a degree,work experience in the industry etc.,probably better suited for a youngster.
I see it as,they are moving the goalposts and because the country is in such a S
situation,we just have to suck it up and accept it....!that's plain wrong!I wish good luck to everyone who applies tho.I have decided to leave the UK,as I am tired of being treated as second class citizen after working so hard to obtain my licences,the very few opportunities are going to the ones who have the ability to pay and not to the resilient ones.Funny that I will be flying in the most unlikely of places,Africa...200hr hero need to start form somewhere right?
First,this is not an apprenticeship in any way.And 'CA',I think the point is written between the lines,they need people to cover ops jobs and whoever accepts this opportunity will be working to the bones,earning very little and doing whatever he/she is told to,because they don't want to miss the opportunity of a B737 type rating.How much does a fully qualified ops worker earn and how much does apprenticeships pays?And the people who comes up with this "fantastic" ideas are the hypocritical oldies who make up the rules as they go along,its a self full-filing prophecy.I am told that my 250hrs aren't good enough to join the likes of Easyjet for example,but yet,they hire MPL's who only touch an aircraft for the total of 85hrs,the remaining is simulator all the way,so apparently they are "better" prepared individuals...please don't tell me that this are management driven decisions as I am pretty sure the Captains of the industry were involved in this farce.Also,I wont Join BA as I didn't go to OAA even tho I have met many of their cadets who knew absolute nothing,they claim their training is the 'bees-kness'.And this Jet2 "opportunity" rules me out as I feel that I have been through this experience,I have a degree,work experience in the industry etc.,probably better suited for a youngster.
I see it as,they are moving the goalposts and because the country is in such a S
situation,we just have to suck it up and accept it....!that's plain wrong!I wish good luck to everyone who applies tho.I have decided to leave the UK,as I am tired of being treated as second class citizen after working so hard to obtain my licences,the very few opportunities are going to the ones who have the ability to pay and not to the resilient ones.Funny that I will be flying in the most unlikely of places,Africa...200hr hero need to start form somewhere right?