Anyone totally screwed up a sim assessment, and eventually gone on to land a job?
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Anyone totally screwed up a sim assessment, and eventually gone on to land a job?
After 4 years of waiting for a single interview, I found myself invited to interview. I renewed IR in aircraft, medical, and flew some FNPT2 hours. Spent around £2K. Interview went well, then simulator check was a disaster, both me and partner even worse.
Is it a remotely familiar experience to anyone who has subsequently landed a job? I learned a hell of a lot, and have eaten a huge slice of humble pie. Should another opportunity ever arise.......
Does this happen to others?
Is it a remotely familiar experience to anyone who has subsequently landed a job? I learned a hell of a lot, and have eaten a huge slice of humble pie. Should another opportunity ever arise.......
Does this happen to others?
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Unless you obviously messed up such as being unstable at DA and not performing a GA or worse you may only think it was bad when perhaps it was not. I had a job interview and after the sim they said so please debrief us on your performance. I replied "well firstly I apologise and secondly I would not employ myself off that performance" I continued to say what I did and how I could have done it better. I was told not to be hard on myself and that it was supposed to be difficult and they would be in touch. About a week later I was contacted and was told I had successfully passed the interview and sim. I guess it can't have been that bad then and I continue to be my own biggest critic.
Good luck
Good luck
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I know a few people who have been given another shot if they liked you at interview but you dropped the ball in the sim. If they didn't like you as a person in the interview then you have no chance.
There's no use trying to hide an error, the recruiter has seen it all before, best to acknowledge you've mucked up the hold and do your best to fix it, or if you go out of limits on an ILS then go around. Self debriefing is great too because it shows you have situational awareness and an ability to learn.
There's no use trying to hide an error, the recruiter has seen it all before, best to acknowledge you've mucked up the hold and do your best to fix it, or if you go out of limits on an ILS then go around. Self debriefing is great too because it shows you have situational awareness and an ability to learn.
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Kingair
Mmmmmmmmm. Thanks you 2. Perfect asymmetric hold, perfect ILS, perfect GA. Problem? At start of session, EFATO, A/C being flown at VYSE, stable,partner confirmed engine, shut down other one, and I allowed it. I was so flummoxed by resulting pitch down and roll at 200', we lost A/C. Sim reset, and virtually flew rest of faultless, yes faultless session with head in my hands.... If I could have flagellated myself, given a "cat o'nine tails" I would have. Interviewers must have thought "what a prick...." Is that a more common occurence than most egos would care admit?
Any constructive inputs apprecitaed. Spouse is saying you'll be ready next time. Another 4 years????
Mmmmmmmmm. Thanks you 2. Perfect asymmetric hold, perfect ILS, perfect GA. Problem? At start of session, EFATO, A/C being flown at VYSE, stable,partner confirmed engine, shut down other one, and I allowed it. I was so flummoxed by resulting pitch down and roll at 200', we lost A/C. Sim reset, and virtually flew rest of faultless, yes faultless session with head in my hands.... If I could have flagellated myself, given a "cat o'nine tails" I would have. Interviewers must have thought "what a prick...." Is that a more common occurence than most egos would care admit?
Any constructive inputs apprecitaed. Spouse is saying you'll be ready next time. Another 4 years????
Last edited by Flieslikeabrick; 15th Dec 2012 at 08:43.
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I made a complete arse of my Cathay Pacific sim check, nobody to blame but myself, I thought I was well prepared but the 747 just got away from me, ended up halfway down the ILS completely unconfigured, gear up, aircraft speeding up, went around, made a a complete c0ck up of the go-round, the instructor repositioned me and I had another go but the damage was done 
Two weeks after that I got the golden phone call from Easyjet and I absolutely nailed that sim if I do say so myself. Got the job and never looked back.
Everyone screws up sooner or later, and when it's your dream job and you can see it slipping away, it's the worst feeling in the world. I don't believe in karma but in my case and with the benefit of 10 years of hindsight, NOT getting that Cathay gig was probably the best thing that could have happened to me, my life has been so different but so much fun ever since, knowing what I know now about Cathay and the life I now lead I reckon I'm ten times better off out of there
Two weeks after that I got the golden phone call from Easyjet and I absolutely nailed that sim if I do say so myself. Got the job and never looked back.
Everyone screws up sooner or later, and when it's your dream job and you can see it slipping away, it's the worst feeling in the world. I don't believe in karma but in my case and with the benefit of 10 years of hindsight, NOT getting that Cathay gig was probably the best thing that could have happened to me, my life has been so different but so much fun ever since, knowing what I know now about Cathay and the life I now lead I reckon I'm ten times better off out of there
Last edited by Luke SkyToddler; 15th Dec 2012 at 10:36.
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I needed to hear someone else say that. Thanks. It is indeed one of the worst feelings possible. (Other than serious illness...) Unfortunately as no other opportunity has yet arisen, I can't turn the something bad into something good. I guess we are all human.
I would still welcome any other accounts. Thanks Luke.
I would still welcome any other accounts. Thanks Luke.
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Don't be too hard on yourself. It is very difficult to do a sim check in the beginning of your career to get that first job.
Most of the time it's on a type you've never flown and with a partner you've never met. Neither of you have any airline experience. If you have completed an MCC course then most likely it will have been at different schools on different types
So it has all the ingredients for disaster
But one failed sim session is not the end of it. It's just that there can be a long wait for the next one...
Most of the time it's on a type you've never flown and with a partner you've never met. Neither of you have any airline experience. If you have completed an MCC course then most likely it will have been at different schools on different types
So it has all the ingredients for disaster
But one failed sim session is not the end of it. It's just that there can be a long wait for the next one...
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It's small consolation, but as others have said, don't be too hard on yourself. You got current, prepared for your interview and after 4 years, there wasn't much more you could have done.
To be honest after all that time, I am impressed that you did so well in all other aspects of the sim check. It's always a high pressure situation, hightended considerably after 4 years of waiting.
Did you get a de-brief afterwards? No chance of a frank conversation, do all you can to be even more attractive to them and ask to be re-considered at a later date? They must have liked the look of you to give you an interview.
I feel your pain.
To be honest after all that time, I am impressed that you did so well in all other aspects of the sim check. It's always a high pressure situation, hightended considerably after 4 years of waiting.
Did you get a de-brief afterwards? No chance of a frank conversation, do all you can to be even more attractive to them and ask to be re-considered at a later date? They must have liked the look of you to give you an interview.
I feel your pain.
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Debrief was positive apart from small act killing everyone on board. Another application would be "welcome" after 12 months. I interpret that as "Don't call us we won't call you..."
Positive note for me is I know what to expect (if there is a ) next time.
Negative: Don't have another 4 renewals left in me......
Positive note for me is I know what to expect (if there is a ) next time.
Negative: Don't have another 4 renewals left in me......
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Another application would be "welcome" after 12 months. I interpret that as "Don't call us we won't call you..."
Re-apply after 12 months!
It's fairly standard. No reflection on screwing the sim up.
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IMHO, the ability of reflecting on one own's performance, objectively, is key to becoming a proficient pilot. It will certainly also help with passing interview sim checks. Not few out there have an attitude which you do not want to have on the flight deck. Those individuals are attempted to be singled out in selections. People believing they were great whereas their performance was clearly below standard are dangerous.
Being over critical with your own performance is a good thing. It will most likely never let you become satisfied and help you keep motivating yourself to constantly improve.
That said, when I hear pilots talk about their own perfect performance of some sort I get suspicious. I'm not the best out there but not the worst either. Still, a perfect flight of mine I find is yet to come.
Failing a sim is not the end of the world. This has occurred to many of us. On the day, a lot can go wrong, but a lot has to go right.
I myself have had two jet interview sim checks. I failed both of them. I wanted to cry after each. I also had two interview sim rides for TP and passed them both. Also, I had two flying interviews for piston jobs which I also passed. Having over 1,000 hrs more in my logbook this time around I know I would pass those jet sim checks today.
At some point in your career all will fall into place.
Don't be too hard on yourself but figure out where you did go wrong and correct for it.
Being over critical with your own performance is a good thing. It will most likely never let you become satisfied and help you keep motivating yourself to constantly improve.
That said, when I hear pilots talk about their own perfect performance of some sort I get suspicious. I'm not the best out there but not the worst either. Still, a perfect flight of mine I find is yet to come.
Failing a sim is not the end of the world. This has occurred to many of us. On the day, a lot can go wrong, but a lot has to go right.
I myself have had two jet interview sim checks. I failed both of them. I wanted to cry after each. I also had two interview sim rides for TP and passed them both. Also, I had two flying interviews for piston jobs which I also passed. Having over 1,000 hrs more in my logbook this time around I know I would pass those jet sim checks today.
At some point in your career all will fall into place.
Don't be too hard on yourself but figure out where you did go wrong and correct for it.
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I would try and not be too self-critical; unless you have been given a firm no, then all is not lost.
Regardless of the outcome, you have now been through a recruitment process, and the experience you will have now only puts you in a better position for the next.
As has been touched on within this thread already, opportunities arise, and whilst it may not seem like it now, a positive attitude will always work to your favour.
I attended an interview with Ryanair 2 years ago. I walked out with my head held high; I wasn't cocky, but I also struggled to find fault in what I had done in the sim or interview. I was rejected, and like yourself I started to believe I had lost my only chance; the only thing I had heard for 2 whole years!
Fast forward a year, and I was lucky enough to secure an interview with another UK based airline. Still with low hours in my logbook, I knew how important it was to nail this sim, and I guess I over-thought the entire thing. I walked out and felt completely destroyed; whilst I flew the procedures, nothing felt as 'tight' or as 'accurate' as I had done previous, nor what I knew I was capable of doing. I also felt my sim partner had easily out-performed me, which only made me even more self-critical of my own performance.
I was offered the Job 3 days later.
Being self-critical is part of this game; having a passion for flying, self development and a thirst to learn more will further develop these traits. Most of the guys I see coming out of the sim are the same as me; all quick to self-debrief.
And as with Luke, had I of been offered a role with Ryanair I would likely be posting my ramblings on a whole different thread within this forum. As it stands, I am employed on a decent contract, and most importantly with a company I love working for!
As one door closes, another will open.
I hope you get the news you hope for!
Regardless of the outcome, you have now been through a recruitment process, and the experience you will have now only puts you in a better position for the next.
As has been touched on within this thread already, opportunities arise, and whilst it may not seem like it now, a positive attitude will always work to your favour.
I attended an interview with Ryanair 2 years ago. I walked out with my head held high; I wasn't cocky, but I also struggled to find fault in what I had done in the sim or interview. I was rejected, and like yourself I started to believe I had lost my only chance; the only thing I had heard for 2 whole years!
Fast forward a year, and I was lucky enough to secure an interview with another UK based airline. Still with low hours in my logbook, I knew how important it was to nail this sim, and I guess I over-thought the entire thing. I walked out and felt completely destroyed; whilst I flew the procedures, nothing felt as 'tight' or as 'accurate' as I had done previous, nor what I knew I was capable of doing. I also felt my sim partner had easily out-performed me, which only made me even more self-critical of my own performance.
I was offered the Job 3 days later.
Being self-critical is part of this game; having a passion for flying, self development and a thirst to learn more will further develop these traits. Most of the guys I see coming out of the sim are the same as me; all quick to self-debrief.
And as with Luke, had I of been offered a role with Ryanair I would likely be posting my ramblings on a whole different thread within this forum. As it stands, I am employed on a decent contract, and most importantly with a company I love working for!
As one door closes, another will open.
I hope you get the news you hope for!
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From my (limited) knowledge of the industry, yes.
If you are wanting to jump into the RHS with little to no commercial experience, airlines will ask for a MCC and JOC.
The analysis that most incidents are caused by pilot error, of which the majority could have been prevented, has led the way to pushing good CRM skills amongst crews. The MCC helps to establish this, and gets you into a mindset of how to fly safely in a multi crew environment.
If you are wanting to jump into the RHS with little to no commercial experience, airlines will ask for a MCC and JOC.
The analysis that most incidents are caused by pilot error, of which the majority could have been prevented, has led the way to pushing good CRM skills amongst crews. The MCC helps to establish this, and gets you into a mindset of how to fly safely in a multi crew environment.
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Would you guys recommend an MCC course to a newbie? i mean a fresh CPL?
for that first job
for that first job
Your post only says a fresh CPL, just to clarify a CPL alone is useless, you need a CPL and and Instrument rating with ATPL ground school to get anywhere useful.
If you then want to fly a multi crew aircraft - which an airline job will be - you would need an MCC course completion certificate before you start your type rating. This is the very last step before your type rating, so there's no rush to get it, it doesn't expire, and only takes two weeks at a typical cost just under £2k, so leave to the very end.
With your basic ATPL groundschool - CPL - IR, you could add an instructor rating and instruct, or fly single pilot ops if you're lucky to land a job parachute dropping, aerial photography, air ambulance, there are quite a lot of options if you do your research. The key thing is to make some contacts before you start, or along the way. Getting your first job is very little to do with piloting ability or qualifications, and mostly about personality and who you know. At the end of the day everyone has a CPL-IR, so you have proven you can fly, you will need a contact to get that first job.
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Don't be too hard on yourself. I did an assessment on a 744 when i only had cessna hours.... might as well been flying a spaceship for the good I did.
Since then I've passed 10 years of 757 LPCS, as well as 767s and recently an assessment on a 738..... things will get better for you. Don't stop trying.
Since then I've passed 10 years of 757 LPCS, as well as 767s and recently an assessment on a 738..... things will get better for you. Don't stop trying.
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Don't worry flies... I screwed it 3 times, everytime for an other reason. But i got now a flying job. You ll get there. Dont be too hard for your self because you put too much unnecessary pressure on your self, which leads to making more mistakes. I advice you before you go, make sure you rent 2 hours a sim to practice.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Last edited by Stick35; 17th Dec 2012 at 17:01.
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Thanks to you all for your accounts of your own experiences. I certainly do feel a lot more "human" now. Looking more forward instead or rearwards now..........