British Airways Future Pilot Programme.
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Most people who didn't get through didn't pass the selection - pass all the tests (maths, english, capacity etc) and you're in with a good shout. Obviously you have to convince of your motivation etc in the interview. However, part of showing motivation and resilience is bouncing back from setback and succeeding next time round after putting in a lot of work on the areas that let you down.
Often those who get in second or third time round go on to be the best as they value what they have more and have a greater hunger.
Often those who get in second or third time round go on to be the best as they value what they have more and have a greater hunger.
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Well done to all who got this far even if you were not successful this time. To get to the last stage was very good going. Will you be applying for next year's intake?
To G-FORC3, huge congratuations. Have been following this thread for a while and noticed your name pop up frequently since I noticed you're based up here in Scotland.
To G-FORC3, huge congratuations. Have been following this thread for a while and noticed your name pop up frequently since I noticed you're based up here in Scotland.
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Congrats to all those who are successful!
Chin up to those who have not been.
Some good advice has been posted already on actions to take in self diagnosis, such as recalling as much of the process/questions as possible. What would you change about your approach or preparation if facing the same again? What were the interviewers reactions to you and your answers. How much probing was required before moving on?
Go and gain what ever feedback you can ASAP. Be very open and receptive to it. And I REALLY mean that last sentence!
For those looking at EZY et al, take a quick pause before proceeding. If you are spending around £100,000 where do you want it to take you? Do you really want to work for EZY or BA? Is it absolutely vital to be in training this year?
Take stock and ask yourself some very important questions. The FTOs hold back other airline applications until after the FPP has finished selection for some very good reasons. One is resources, but the others are financial. They are a business.
My point is do not go rushing head first into the 'next best thing' without doing some self diagnosis/washup.
All the best to all looking to start a new career in aviation.
Chin up to those who have not been.
Some good advice has been posted already on actions to take in self diagnosis, such as recalling as much of the process/questions as possible. What would you change about your approach or preparation if facing the same again? What were the interviewers reactions to you and your answers. How much probing was required before moving on?
Go and gain what ever feedback you can ASAP. Be very open and receptive to it. And I REALLY mean that last sentence!
For those looking at EZY et al, take a quick pause before proceeding. If you are spending around £100,000 where do you want it to take you? Do you really want to work for EZY or BA? Is it absolutely vital to be in training this year?
Take stock and ask yourself some very important questions. The FTOs hold back other airline applications until after the FPP has finished selection for some very good reasons. One is resources, but the others are financial. They are a business.
My point is do not go rushing head first into the 'next best thing' without doing some self diagnosis/washup.
All the best to all looking to start a new career in aviation.
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I've also been following this year's FPP thread with great curiosity. Albeit merely as an observer, since I wasn't in a position to apply for 2013 / 2014 scheme. This way letting others - more informed and experienced candidates - usefully contribute to the debate.
@LastPastthePost and many other who didn't make the cut this year: It might be appropriate if I try to answer @JDA2012's question as to Why do we fall? - We fall so that we can bounce back. This way success will one day taste all the more sweeter … Learn from mistakes, apply new-gained knowledge and improve yourselves. And good luck.
@G-F0RC3 (and other successful applicants): I can honestly say it's been a pleasure reading through your posts, experiences and insights over the past 6 months. To me it comes as no surprise why such a great airline company as British Airways, decided to choose You. Definitely deserve it. Congrats. All the best with Your training and have fun.
Also many thanks to @MaydaMaydayMayday and other successful applicants from previous years that have been generously contributing to this year's thread by offering their advice and with their experience have helped others. Again, it comes as no surprise why BA has awarded you last year with this wonderful opportunity. Necessary key characteristics needed for a BA captain unapologetically shine through your posts … MaydaMaydayMayday, I didn't have a chance to personally thank you for advising on that Question of mine a few months back. Thank you, sir. It helped a lot. All I can do is apply, be honest, work hard, hopefully get an opportunity in front of BA recruitment board to explain my past mistakes and how they've helped me to better myself, and hope for the best.
The level of quality of successful candidate's profiles as it can be perceived from this and previous threads make me feel a bit timid that I'd have even a remote chance of being selected. But this way I thoroughly understand my aspiration why I'd love to fly for British Airways. An airline company is as good as are its employees. And BA set the standard very high. I'd probably be over the moon to be one day given a chance to fly the line with such exquisite group of future pilots.
@ThatGingerPilot: Thanks for volunteering to ask BA any questions at PFTE on behalf of others. Hope my Q isn't too late, but I'd like to ask whether there was anything said about BA running the FPP also in November of 2016? Or, will the last FPP selection phase commence in November of 2015? - There's been some misinformation about this. In following interview Mr. Lindsay Craig explained (link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW0rA7230-U ) about BA FPP being a five-year pilot recruitment strategy. This would suggest the last scheme should open in Fall of 2015 and successful candidates probably being informed of their selection in April of 2016. However BA representatives have been answering prospective candidates on this very question (see comments in following YT recruitment video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4nAFqVADts ) that BA plans on annually running this programme every year for the foreseeable future. This way suggesting the FPP will run in 2016, maybe even beyond. (I wouldn't like to miss this oppurtunity, but due to some of my contractual agreements I wouldn't be in a position to apply before Nov 2016. And even if selected, start training in Fall of 2017.) Thank you for any kind of information.
@LastPastthePost and many other who didn't make the cut this year: It might be appropriate if I try to answer @JDA2012's question as to Why do we fall? - We fall so that we can bounce back. This way success will one day taste all the more sweeter … Learn from mistakes, apply new-gained knowledge and improve yourselves. And good luck.
@G-F0RC3 (and other successful applicants): I can honestly say it's been a pleasure reading through your posts, experiences and insights over the past 6 months. To me it comes as no surprise why such a great airline company as British Airways, decided to choose You. Definitely deserve it. Congrats. All the best with Your training and have fun.
Also many thanks to @MaydaMaydayMayday and other successful applicants from previous years that have been generously contributing to this year's thread by offering their advice and with their experience have helped others. Again, it comes as no surprise why BA has awarded you last year with this wonderful opportunity. Necessary key characteristics needed for a BA captain unapologetically shine through your posts … MaydaMaydayMayday, I didn't have a chance to personally thank you for advising on that Question of mine a few months back. Thank you, sir. It helped a lot. All I can do is apply, be honest, work hard, hopefully get an opportunity in front of BA recruitment board to explain my past mistakes and how they've helped me to better myself, and hope for the best.
The level of quality of successful candidate's profiles as it can be perceived from this and previous threads make me feel a bit timid that I'd have even a remote chance of being selected. But this way I thoroughly understand my aspiration why I'd love to fly for British Airways. An airline company is as good as are its employees. And BA set the standard very high. I'd probably be over the moon to be one day given a chance to fly the line with such exquisite group of future pilots.
@ThatGingerPilot: Thanks for volunteering to ask BA any questions at PFTE on behalf of others. Hope my Q isn't too late, but I'd like to ask whether there was anything said about BA running the FPP also in November of 2016? Or, will the last FPP selection phase commence in November of 2015? - There's been some misinformation about this. In following interview Mr. Lindsay Craig explained (link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW0rA7230-U ) about BA FPP being a five-year pilot recruitment strategy. This would suggest the last scheme should open in Fall of 2015 and successful candidates probably being informed of their selection in April of 2016. However BA representatives have been answering prospective candidates on this very question (see comments in following YT recruitment video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4nAFqVADts ) that BA plans on annually running this programme every year for the foreseeable future. This way suggesting the FPP will run in 2016, maybe even beyond. (I wouldn't like to miss this oppurtunity, but due to some of my contractual agreements I wouldn't be in a position to apply before Nov 2016. And even if selected, start training in Fall of 2017.) Thank you for any kind of information.
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Hello all! Interesting day the Professional Flight Training Exhibition at LHR T5, three main points I picked up on regarding the BA FPP.
- Last year, the BA FPP program was actually short 10 pilots due to a large number failing the maths portion of the assessment. This year, CTC Wings has an agreement that, should the BA FPP yield another shortage of pilots, that Integrated Cadets of CTC may well be assigned to BA.
- I was initially under the impression that the idea behind the BA FPP was that it would recruit 400 pilots over 4 years, and this was confirmed by a British Airways pilot I spoke to today at the PFTE. However, in the CTC Wings "A Flying Start to 2014" brochure picked up today, it reads "The BA FPP will enable up to 500 aspiring airline pilots (over five years)" - Read into it what you will.
- The BA Pilot I spoke to said that the BA FPP for 2015 was "possible but not confirmed.". Yet when I spoke to a senior figure for CTC Wings, I was told that the CTC wings was "100%, definitely coming this year". Plus, BA did a presentation on the FPP - surely a bit odd if they weren't going to run it again, no?
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today we are really short of crew and that will continue all summer, next year they will have an idea on numbers but really I dont think we know ourselves. There does seem to be a ongoing commitment to FPP over DEP at the moment
today we are really short of crew....... I dont think we know ourselves.
I think the company are (rightly) committed to continuation of the FPP but I think some in management would rather undergo root canal surgery without anaesthetic than rush out and recruit 'bus rated DEPs....
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I don't think FPP was intended to be at the expense of DEP recruitment. The idea was BA had a large predicted recruitment requirement over the medium term with no certainty as to when the post 55ers would retire. DEP recruitment alone wasn't able to meet the highest forecast recruitment need so the idea was FPP provides a stable known number of pilots on a set timetable and then DEPs fill in the gaps. Best case was a 50/50 split but with the bmi integration BA found themselves over crewed and do didn't need the DEPs but had already committed to FPP due the long lead in times. There's no sinister plan to recruit FPPs over DEPs, it's just driven my commercial realities and the continually changing plan.
Wiggy committed to FPP is all well and good, there's a place for it. But as I said, it is a disgrace that it is at the absolute expense of direct entry.
As bex has hinted at certain statuses are seemingly very very short of manpower and IMHO DEP recruitment would make perfect sense if BA wanted to fix the problem....but I suspect
there are internal company politics and Industrial issues involved that are, shall we say, complicating matters.
Last edited by wiggy; 13th Apr 2014 at 11:34.
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Congrats again to the those who got selected.
For me I know where I went wrong. The 2nd group exercise was quite complicated in that you had to do quite a few calculations to answer some of the objectives of the tasks. I asked if anyone wanted to keep track of that, which was followed by an awkward silence (as no one wanted to have their heads down in calculations for part of the exercise), so I felt having asked the question I should offer to do it. So I spent the majority of the exercise doing calculations.
The other error I made was that my competency examples were too long and as the interview progressed the interviewers kept asking me to be brief. This is in line with my only feedback to BA that there was too much content for the time in the interview. I'm in a very technical role at the moment, so most of the answers needed context.
Also, if I am 100% honest - I didn't want the job as much as some of the others I saw at Waterside. I'm lucky to have a very good job already and I was particularly busy the week up to the selection. Contrast that with some of the candidates there who had no plan B, its was obvious they put more time into preparation, coaching, tests etc. The more I looked into British Airways and IAG, the more concerned I got about its finances and its ability to grow in the future. Again, if I was 100% honest, if I had to invest my own money in Airline Stocks, BA would be towards the bottom of the pile. I'm not saying that these two points would have stopped me taking the job, but that the fact I had some doubts creeped into my performance on the day. This is why I'm happy for the people that made the cut, as they deserved it more than me.
So having my mind made up for me, I think the easyJet MPL is a great opportunity. I will be reflecting on the above and using it to improve my performance for this program. I suspect it will be just as competitive (or even more because its entry criteria are lower) as the Future Pilot Program.
For me I know where I went wrong. The 2nd group exercise was quite complicated in that you had to do quite a few calculations to answer some of the objectives of the tasks. I asked if anyone wanted to keep track of that, which was followed by an awkward silence (as no one wanted to have their heads down in calculations for part of the exercise), so I felt having asked the question I should offer to do it. So I spent the majority of the exercise doing calculations.
The other error I made was that my competency examples were too long and as the interview progressed the interviewers kept asking me to be brief. This is in line with my only feedback to BA that there was too much content for the time in the interview. I'm in a very technical role at the moment, so most of the answers needed context.
Also, if I am 100% honest - I didn't want the job as much as some of the others I saw at Waterside. I'm lucky to have a very good job already and I was particularly busy the week up to the selection. Contrast that with some of the candidates there who had no plan B, its was obvious they put more time into preparation, coaching, tests etc. The more I looked into British Airways and IAG, the more concerned I got about its finances and its ability to grow in the future. Again, if I was 100% honest, if I had to invest my own money in Airline Stocks, BA would be towards the bottom of the pile. I'm not saying that these two points would have stopped me taking the job, but that the fact I had some doubts creeped into my performance on the day. This is why I'm happy for the people that made the cut, as they deserved it more than me.
So having my mind made up for me, I think the easyJet MPL is a great opportunity. I will be reflecting on the above and using it to improve my performance for this program. I suspect it will be just as competitive (or even more because its entry criteria are lower) as the Future Pilot Program.
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Originally Posted by LastPastthePost
I suspect it will be just as competitive (or even more because its entry criteria are lower) as the Future Pilot Program.
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Interesting restriction on experience for the OAA MPL - thankfully this was not the case for the 2014 FPP route (and is not mentioned on the CTC easyJet page either):
Have no more than 85 hours powered flight experience
Conscious of thread drift, so will keep my commentary to that statement and the hope that BA are not likely to introduce a similar restriction in future
LPtP - that is a genuinely fascinating post. I am in very much the same sort of position and made very much the same types of mistakes, albeit I managed to rule myself out at the OAA stage. You perhaps only realise that your motivation is not absolute when you run into someone who truly has no other options. Still - next year, I will be ready...
Have no more than 85 hours powered flight experience
Conscious of thread drift, so will keep my commentary to that statement and the hope that BA are not likely to introduce a similar restriction in future
LPtP - that is a genuinely fascinating post. I am in very much the same sort of position and made very much the same types of mistakes, albeit I managed to rule myself out at the OAA stage. You perhaps only realise that your motivation is not absolute when you run into someone who truly has no other options. Still - next year, I will be ready...
Last edited by JDA2012; 14th Apr 2014 at 13:30.
Be careful about overplaying your experience.
I was at Waterside in 2013 but missed out at the final stage. This year I didn't even make it as far as the FTO test centre! I suspect it was because I have a lot of PPL flying experience and this time around I gave a more comprehensive summary and listed I had done my IMC IR(R) and was studying towards ATPLs ( although I pointed out I had not yet sat any exams as per the BAFPP requirement ). Next year I plan to just say I hold a PPL(A) with no mention of the several additional ratings or hours.
Sadly in this new world flying experience is frowned on!
I was at Waterside in 2013 but missed out at the final stage. This year I didn't even make it as far as the FTO test centre! I suspect it was because I have a lot of PPL flying experience and this time around I gave a more comprehensive summary and listed I had done my IMC IR(R) and was studying towards ATPLs ( although I pointed out I had not yet sat any exams as per the BAFPP requirement ). Next year I plan to just say I hold a PPL(A) with no mention of the several additional ratings or hours.
Sadly in this new world flying experience is frowned on!
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Very interesting post LastPastThePost. Your honesty and self-reflection are admirable. I just wanted to pick up on this point you made though, as I don't really agree.
British Airways recorded very strong profits in 2013 after re-surfacing from one of the worst recessions in living memory. There has been a strong emphasis on reducing the airline's cost base, and now it's in much better shape for sustainable and profitable growth. So - really - if there was a time to be concerned about BA's finances I think it was five years ago rather than now.
In terms of IAG, the group's prospects appear good. Iberia made a loss last year but that was expected with all the internal restructuring it has gone through. It's anticipated that they will be profitable next year and Vueling are also looking strong.
The more I looked into British Airways and IAG, the more concerned I got about its finances and its ability to grow in the future.
In terms of IAG, the group's prospects appear good. Iberia made a loss last year but that was expected with all the internal restructuring it has gone through. It's anticipated that they will be profitable next year and Vueling are also looking strong.
Last edited by G-F0RC3; 14th Apr 2014 at 15:12.
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I don't doubt that its made progress, but still has a long way to go. I was most concerned by this comment from Keith Williams "We moved BA's operating profit target from £ 1.1 bn to £ 1.3bn by 2015 for a reason. By making £ 1.1 bn we would be treading water - holding our own but nothing more. By making £ 1.3 bn we will be providing investors with a return on capital, making them money, as all businesses need to."
So currently its only making a third of its profit target, in what I would consider to be good conditions over the last 12 months (ie Oil Prices, Economic Growth etc). Compare that to the levels of profit at Delta, America, Ryanair and easyJet (taking into account their respective balance sheets, passenger km's etc). So where is that 800m going to come from? No doubt Vuelling will help, but from that I've seen BA needs to meet its own profit targets for both Long and Short Haul.
Ultimately the penal interest rate you have to pay on your loan is because British Airways still has a junk credit rating, so you have to pay a huge markup compared to the base rate.
As I said, this would not have stopped me taking up the role but it did give me reservations. I think its great that your defending BA G-FORC, because it shows that your a better match at British Airways than me.
So currently its only making a third of its profit target, in what I would consider to be good conditions over the last 12 months (ie Oil Prices, Economic Growth etc). Compare that to the levels of profit at Delta, America, Ryanair and easyJet (taking into account their respective balance sheets, passenger km's etc). So where is that 800m going to come from? No doubt Vuelling will help, but from that I've seen BA needs to meet its own profit targets for both Long and Short Haul.
Ultimately the penal interest rate you have to pay on your loan is because British Airways still has a junk credit rating, so you have to pay a huge markup compared to the base rate.
As I said, this would not have stopped me taking up the role but it did give me reservations. I think its great that your defending BA G-FORC, because it shows that your a better match at British Airways than me.
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I like the analysis of the finances from both sides - very objective. I'm not sure of the timing of this debate as it sort of leaves a sour taste especially after last weeks developemts.
What I can vouch for however is the high quality of this analysis for such a fine line - swinging from side to side. I have the highest regard for contributors here but what I do not want is to let myself be led into the shadows of the many excellent insights, experiences, et la shared over the time on this forum especially with regard to the BA FPP.
For the FPP successful applicants; have you heard about the medicals and if yes what?
What I can vouch for however is the high quality of this analysis for such a fine line - swinging from side to side. I have the highest regard for contributors here but what I do not want is to let myself be led into the shadows of the many excellent insights, experiences, et la shared over the time on this forum especially with regard to the BA FPP.
For the FPP successful applicants; have you heard about the medicals and if yes what?
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I agree, the Future Pilot Program is a great initiative and congratulations to those who are on it. It helps aspiring pilots and saves British Airways money too, so also helps meet the profit target..
