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British Airways Future Pilot Programme.

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British Airways Future Pilot Programme.

Old 23rd Apr 2013, 11:56
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Quick question.

Is pay as a first officer having graduated on the FPP course and gained a job with BA offset by the amount being paid back for the loan? I remember the presentation over lunch describing the pay scale but obviously had nothing to compare it to for a standard first officer.

In other words, is BA paying you back your training fee on top of what you would otherwise be earning, or as part of what you are earning with them?
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Old 23rd Apr 2013, 12:10
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The payscale for FPP and DEP entrants is different. The advantage with the scheme is that the bond is paid back tax free on top of the FPP level salary, whether you took out the loan or not (they're technically repaying the bond, not the loan). Once you reach the end of the bond period, you join the same payscale as everyone else. Thankfully you don't revert back to year 1, though!

If by any chance someone happens to have the money to just pay the bond upfront, they're clearly in a pretty good position with (effectively) 12k per year tax free, considering it's not salary. Otherwise you're obviously paying back interest on the loan too, but at least it's not after that money has already been taxed once as part of a salary package.

NB. I don't think it equates to the same overall but, that said, graduating from the FPP doesn't give you the same experience as anyone coming in through the DEP route. DEP entrants "must have attained at least 500 hours on a multi-engine transport category aircraft with an MTOM of greater than 10 tonnes to be considered for shorthaul vacancies. They must also be in possession of an ATPL (frozen)." Clearly that's substantially more than a new FO straight out of FPP training.

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Old 23rd Apr 2013, 12:33
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I've always thought of the whole bond thing as neither here nor there on it's own, provided one's in it with BA for the long haul (no pun intended).

It all depends on one's financial aims and how far up the priorities post-training salary is to the individual. Where it's a biggie, then it requires a holistic comparison with the alternatives at one's disposal (aviation and non-aviation) over a period of a number of years including those after training. This would factor in FPP vs DEP salary, bearing in mind that to be DEP one would have had to fund the training somehow anyway.

It has been made apparent severally that at the onset the FPP salary scale is significantly below that of DEP, but I don't know if the two can really be compared, as it is unlikely one can be a direct entry into BA straight after training. If they were comparable, then it could be argued that BA is not really paying back the bond, but just structuring your wages in a more tax efficient way. Similar can be argued to the days when training was "fully sponsored" that it was just subsidised by a lower wage at the onset of working on the line. The key would be how much BA saves and what your take home pay is. If it's good on both sides, then I think they call that a win-win

For myself I would grab the first opportunity to work for BA either way. Flying is by far not the most financially prudent decision for me as for many others and I don't even need to go into into an in depth analysis to know that my financial standing over the remainder of my working life is at a great detriment going into flying than if I were to remain within my current realm. The bottomline is we're not going into it for the bottomline. Something I tried to subtly put across in my interview, but may have been misconstrued.

I paraphrased some of the some points as Mayday, which I hadn't seen on my initial reply

Last edited by my_call; 23rd Apr 2013 at 12:54.
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Old 23rd Apr 2013, 12:55
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Hello,

Hats off to everyone who made it! The competition was tough...

Just wondering: has anyone without an English-speaking education ever got through the BA FPP selections? Ever heard about such successful candidates?

Is there a way, without going to school/university, to apply for a GCSE (or equivalent) only for taking the "English as a first-language" exam(s)? (goal being getting C or above)

Thanks!

Last edited by Chris_ACV; 24th Apr 2013 at 10:02.
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Old 23rd Apr 2013, 17:34
  #925 (permalink)  
 
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The question wasn't meant as a mini moan about the FPP programme, only to gauge a comparison with how one would go about paying off an integrated course if they chose to take that route.

In other words, after you pay off a chunk of the loan at the end of the year, how much is there left to live on? (im sure this has been debated to death on these forums!)

Of course the main difference between the FPP programme and an integrated course is that with the former you are more or less guaranteed a job that will easily pay off the debt. Less so with the latter...
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Old 23rd Apr 2013, 19:38
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Ok, this may not answer your question again, but I thought it may be helpful to some, as topics of a similar nature have been brought up a number of times before . Based on my own understanding, this is how I would calculate pay for a new FPP entrant.

Income:

Gross Salary = FFP Basic Salary + Flying Pay Supplement (FPS)
Allowance = Time Away From Base (TAFB)

Net Income = Gross Salary - Income Tax on Gross Salary + 72% of TAFB + Bond Reimbursement

Non-Tax Deductions:

Loan Instalments = Bond Amount + 2 years interest (assuming deferred payments) amortised over agreed term at agreed interest rate
Actual Duty Spending = Money spent as a necessity of being on duty, over and above normal subsistence when not flying

Take Home Earning = Income - Non-Tax Deductions = Net Income - Loan Instalment - Actual Duty Spending

The main variable on an annual basis would be the increasing net income

Some rough rough monthly numbers:

Net Monthly Income = 23000/12 (net FPS +TAFB, very rough without knowing accurate figures) + 1000 (bond reimbursement) = 2917

based on assumptions:
FPP Basic Salary = 22760
Income Tax on Gross Salary = ~23% using an income tax calculator such as Income Tax Calculator

Loan Amount at first instalment = 84000 + 3360 x 2 = 90720
Loan Instalments = 1240 x 84 monthly payments, using a loan calculator such as Mortgage Calculator: Simple calculator for repayment & interest only mortgages...

based on assumptions:
Instalment Term = 7 years
Interest Rate = 4%
Full bond taken out
Fees and charges not included

Take Home Earning = 2917 - 1240 - Actual Duty Spending = 1677 - Actual Duty Spending

As a point of reference, using the income tax calculator above:

a monthly net of 1677 is equivalent to a starting gross salary (allowance included) of £25,500 - in this scenario one looks at it as a lower wage, but with BA paying back the entire loan and interest with 7 years service, akin to full sponsorship

a monthly net of 2917 is equivalent to a starting gross salary (allowance included) of £48,250 - in this scenario one looks at is as a higher wage, but with one having to pay the full loan by self

Actual Duty Spending effectively reduces the figures in above paragraph.

So my conclusion is that it all depends on which perspective one decides to view the bond from, but either way it's not a bad deal.
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Old 25th Apr 2013, 10:12
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Many congratulations to those that got through - and now the real work begins!

There is talk of salary etc., but ultimately this scheme is the best by a country mile so if you want to fly, you're in a fantastic position.

A word of caution for those talking about Coutts bank accounts and not earning as much as those in first/business class. If counting money is your game (and there are unfortunately many people inflicted with this disease), this is not the right career for you anymore.

Celebrate your success now, but do not let down yourself (or BA) as you go fourth!

A gentle word of advice is to avoid social networking/twitter etc., and avoid you/your parents etc. annoucing to the world you're the next A380 captain.
Your achievements will do all the talking necessary.
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Old 25th Apr 2013, 13:56
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Congrats to those who got through. Does anyone know whether BA have any current plans to go through the process again in the near future?
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Old 25th Apr 2013, 15:29
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Congrats to those who got through. Does anyone know whether BA have any current plans to go through the process again in the near future?
I believe the FPP has a further three years of intake, and it seems to open on a yearly basis for applications around November or December.
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Old 25th Apr 2013, 17:08
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Just a stupid question: are candidates with an PPL and more with 80 hours of flight time but no ATPL exams sat are taken into consideration?

If it is true that the next application windows will be opened in November/December I'd like to apply.
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Old 25th Apr 2013, 19:17
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RedBull, certainly not a stupid question in my opinion. I was precluded from applying for the first intake (FPP2012) as I had more than the maximum 60 logged flying hours, amongst a couple of other academic niggles. However, I was able to apply this year as their only concern seemed to be whether people with flying experience had sat their ATPL exams or not, and other things were changed slightly.

I'm hoping they dont revert back for FPP 2014, as I will be amongst the hoards applying again this year assuming I dont find anything prior. Though with around 8000 applicants for the last one, it's their ball and they can take it home if they want to.

Last edited by pug; 25th Apr 2013 at 19:19.
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Old 25th Apr 2013, 22:59
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4. Do I need to have any flying experience to apply for the Future Pilot Programme?

No. While some flying experience would be valuable, you do not need to have had any experience before you apply to the Future Pilot Programme. However, you must not hold a Commercial Pilot’s Licence or higher, or have commenced an integrated course of flight training, if you wish to apply for the programme.

5. Can I complete a shorter course if I already have a PPL?

No. All cadet pilots on the Future Pilot Programme will complete the full course of training as offered by the selected FTO, and no reductions in flying syllabi etc are available.
Stating that "flying experience would be valuable", whilst simultaneously suggesting that too much flying experience will hinder, would be illogical. I think they realised this when they removed such an arbitrary hour limit for PPL holders who wished to apply; that preventing the most experienced PPL candidates is clearly a poor decision. No legal stumbling blocks - as exist with those who have undertaken CPL examinations - exist for applicants who hold a PPL.
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Old 25th Apr 2013, 23:58
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Am I wrong or does the site say that application will be opened again on 1st July?
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 08:19
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Am I wrong or does the site say that application will be opened again on 1st July?
You got a link?
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 08:32
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The About You page of the FPP site states that 1st July is the reference date used for assessing the age of applicants for eligibility. It does not infer anything about the opening of the scheme. That would be given on the Apply page, which currently states that the scheme is closed. Some Verbal Reasoning practice maybe ???
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 11:13
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Don't know where this talk of there previously being a flight hours experience limit came from... was maybe there for the cadet scheme run 10ish years ago, but certainly not for the first FPP intake. Trust me, there are plenty of cadets currently in training with previous experience. The requirements are as per the content from the website, pasted in the post above.
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 13:57
  #937 (permalink)  
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Jepil0t, perhaps I'm getting my wires crossed then (hopefully!), and the upper hours limit may have been for another cadet scheme (Easyjet in the past??), therefore I appologise if I may have misled anyone. However, some of the academic requirements were changed slightly for the 2013 intake which thankfully allowed me to apply, and will hopefully keep it open again for 2014..

Last edited by pug; 26th Apr 2013 at 14:26.
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 15:12
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Though with around 8000 applicants for the last one.
The total number of applications for the 2013 FPP selection process was nearer 4300, according to Lindsay Craig at PFTE in London last weekend.
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Old 26th Apr 2013, 16:06
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The total number of applications for the 2013 FPP selection process was nearer 4300, according to Lindsay Craig at PFTE in London last weekend.
I stand corrected, again..
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Old 1st May 2013, 13:25
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CTC start dates

If there is anyone on the FPP with CTC and wants to swap start dates I'm looking for a late one in 2014, PM me. Thanks!
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