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British Airways Future Pilot Programme.

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British Airways Future Pilot Programme.

Old 16th Apr 2013, 09:13
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Did anyone get through with little/no flying experience (a couple of trial flights), or was it mainly people with PPLs and the like?
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 09:14
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For those of you who got to the final stage and failed, then don't make any rash decisions. Spend a month or two to think about your future. There are plenty of pilots in BA who took several attempts to get into the company. It took me 2 attempts, but I know of a few who got in on their 4th attempt!

Its my feeling that for those of you who could afford a integrated course then I think this would be better then modular. As much as I loathe CTC and what they have done to T&Cs in the industry, I would expect that if you could get into EZY, then a step to BA in future years would be one which you could probably make, dependent on BA DEP requirements.

Congratulations to those who received the good news; the hard work begins!
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 09:54
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I can reaffirm Taggus's position. I've only had a couple of flying lessons too. I felt my past experiences (whether personal or professional) and motivations were focussed on far more heavily.

I'd certainly imagine that flying experience is only going to be a benefit, but apparently it's not everything.
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 10:38
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Did anyone get through with little/no flying experience (a couple of trial flights)
I got through with a little (~5 hrs) flying. As previously has been said, it's definitely not just about flying (although when I applied first time around I had zero hours and I would definitely advise getting some flying as at least you can say you enjoy it!). My interview and application were very much focused on my different life experiences and other soft skills which they are definitely looking for.

Remember, BA are putting us through this to train us, they know they aren't taking on experienced pilots so don't splurge on a PPL just to make yourself a 'better' candidate, get some life experiences instead.
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 10:51
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I also got through with only a few trial flights under my belt. I agree with the guys above that the emphasis on softer skills is just as important as your aptitude.

Just wondering, any of the successful guys heard back from their FTO yet?

Commiserations to those who didn't get in, every single person I met at each stage was incredibly friendly and passionate, keep going and you will make it!
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 11:02
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Hamsterminator, I would say it depends on your other circumstances too. Do you have a job to keep saving up for an extra year or so before the result of the next FPP is known? If yes, well then you could always use the time to save up on top of what you already have to fund the modular route. And if you aren't successful in the next FPP, at least you will have some extra money to put forward for your flight training... maybe you could fund a TR or a CFI or something else to make yourself more sell-able. That way a year doesn't go to waste.

All in my opinion. I got kicked out in stage 2 of this year's FPP. I intend to work hard for the next year and save up to complete the fATPL and MCC by going modular. This will be my back-up plan if I don't make it into the FPP next year.

It really depends on whether you want to take the risk and matter into your own hands as opposed to sitting around for your entire life hoping that one day a cadet scheme will work out for you. Personally I wouldn't hang around forever. That's just me though... different approaches work for different people (but it's always a gamble )
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 11:03
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Did anyone from FTE get through on here?
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 11:20
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Originally Posted by ajb13
Did anyone from FTE get through on here?
Yup, I'm with FTE.
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 11:29
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It really depends on whether you want to take the risk and matter into your own hands as opposed to sitting around for your entire life hoping that one day a cadet scheme will work out for you. Personally I wouldn't hang around forever. That's just me though... different approaches work for different people (but it's always a gamble )
Thanks for the advice Bearcat. Yeah the above is pretty much the point i'm at decision wise. I will be 30 next year and while that is hardly ancient it does mean I am at the point where I don't want to be hanging around year after year on the off chance I make it through on one of these programmes, particularly when the competition is so intense.

I can see myself becoming a flying instructor without too much difficulty in the next year, but there onwards things get more clouded. If more airlines accepted people with modular CPLs and little experience things would look a little more rosey. On the other hand the employment market does seem to be getting fractionally more desperate for pilots. Perhaps they will relax their entry requirements fractionally (experience wise).

I am advised by my flying instructor just to get the CPL and position myself as employable and then hope for the best. I just would much rather have the relative security of something like the FPP behind me!

Last edited by Hamsterminator; 16th Apr 2013 at 11:30.
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 12:30
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I second what northern monkey has said. Finding a job even if on a integrated course will be very very tough. It largely comes down to good fortune and dare I say it the ability to self fund your TR
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 13:19
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Huge congratulations to those who made it! Commiserations to those who didn't.

I think it's true to say that if you didn't make it this time around then you should try again next year; and the following year; and the following year... until it stops running. The signs from the industry appear to be good as far as these programs are concerned, so going into an intensive integrated course off your own back at the moment seems to be illogical (unless you have £million in the bank). And if you go to the next FPP then think how much experience you'll have from having attended this one? Not to mention the fact that you can tell them you were prepared to wait and go through it all again, because that's how badly you want it and how hard you're prepared to work for it.

But if you're going to do that then you better make sure you do something over the next six months to improve yourself. What fails this time will probably fail again, so evolve guys!
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 13:22
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I second Northern Monkey's comments!
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 13:28
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I am tired of this presumption many make that only those with wealthy parents can go through the integrated route. The majority of those on integrated routes are heavily in debt. It would actually be more difficult for some to secure funding to go through the modular route if they didn't have the funds available. True it would be a hell of a lot cheaper. But unfortunately as many have said before unless your on a tagged scheme like the FPP. Your chances of securing employment (these days) mainly in Europe are low, but almost none existent if you have gone the modular route.

Congratulations to all who got accepted and commiserations to all those who didn't. Don't give up on the dream.

Last edited by Future_Pilot_Pal; 16th Apr 2013 at 14:40.
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 14:05
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Hey guys, unfortunately I was also unsuccessful. I've spoke with recruitment team and they have said that the this years Future Pilot Programme is scheduled to take place the same this year as last. So heads up and lets keep on going.
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 15:03
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I've come across several unemployed modular pilots.
There are more than a few intergrated as well in fact more than a couple of hundred who are currently mailing anybody with an AOC in Europe. In fact the majority of cold applications are with 170-220 hours. Some have even stopped putting the school on and dropped the JOC on them because they are applying to fly a TP. Buts its still obvious where they come from. The CV styles of the schools stick out like a sore thumb.

Most are in the 20-25 year old range 95% plus of them are male. And there is rarely anything which separates them from each other.

It doesn't matter how you train you are getting yourself into a very hard market even if you are on a "tagged scheme" and do brilliantly there are still pit falls. Quite what the Flybe MPL's are going to do is still to be discovered.

You get people asking for advise where ever you go supermarkets at checkouts, bars etc. A lot of the time you think how they hell do they know what you do for a living. You get friends of relatives phoning them to ask if you can "help" with some brat that's had a really some really bad luck etc etc, but he went to the best school in europe. Its not bad luck its just normal. Miss Ryanair and your stuffed.

You can't tell them you wouldn't touch them with a barge pole for another 1000 hours and actually the training they have is completely unsuited to your airlines operation.

To be honest if you don't have the cash in your pocket and can't afford to loose the course price don't train full stop. That's what ever method you choose to do.
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 15:38
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I am tired of this presumption many make that only those with wealthy parents can go through the integrated route. The majority of those on integrated routes are heavily in debt.
Perhaps a disambiguation is required here. I think what most people mean when they refer to "wealthy parents" is parents who own a house and are willing to use it as security for their son/daughter to get an enormous loan in order to fund integrated flight training. So, while you're correct that most who go the integrated route are in a lot of debt, at least they have that opportunity. Thousands more don't have any family help (for a variety of reasons), and therefore have no chance of getting the required funds to make their career ambition a reality. I'm quite sure many aspiring young pilots would happily trade being in a tonne of debt for the opportunity to train and become an airline pilot. Unfortunately for them the decision is out of their hands.
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 15:42
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but almost none existent if you have gone the modular route
Actually its not. They are getting the jobs that were always available to them and that preferred that type of pilot. Not flying heavy tin straight out of the packet but they are still jobs paying decent money. In fact some of them are on better money than the flexi crew type schemes and have a lot less debt if any to service.

And of course the largest taker of that age group of pilots will take both methods of training.

Only difference is one pilot has well over 100k debt to service and the other one significantly less.

Last edited by mad_jock; 16th Apr 2013 at 16:52.
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 17:10
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Actually its not. They are getting the jobs that were always available to them and that preferred that type of pilot. Not flying heavy tin straight out of the packet but they are still jobs paying decent money. In fact some of them are on better money than the flexi crew type schemes and have a lot less debt if any to service.

And of course the largest taker of that age group of pilots will take both methods of training.

Only difference is one pilot has well over 100k debt to service and the other one significantly less.
+1!

Plenty of evidence to suggest that those who persevere and work hard (and with a bit of luck) make it, regardless of the method.

But to suggest to people that it is better doing an integrated course outside of a cadet scheme resulting in £90k debt is better than saving up less than half of that and having a license in your hand (by doing it modular), is just ludicrous IMO!

Even if someone could offer me a loan of £90k, I would never take it unless there was some sort of job guarantee. No thanks, I would rather save up for a bit and sit debt-free with a license in my hands, as opposed to a hold-pool and £90k down.

I am not against integrated. If money was no obstacle - sure, why not integrated. I think it really depends on what works best for a particular person in a particular circumstance.
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 17:24
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Even if someone could offer me a loan of £90k, I would never take it unless there was some sort of job guarantee. No thanks, I would rather save up for a bit and sit debt-free with a license in my hands, as opposed to a hold-pool and £90k down.
I agree F8F, but is there ever such a thing as a job guarantee in todays industry?

Speaking of which, does anyone know what would happen to tagged scheme cadets (either FPP or Easy/Flybe MPL) if the company they trained for is no longer in a position to provide them with a First Officer position? Do they become the equivalent of any other self-sponsored, non-tagged cadet looking for a job?
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Old 16th Apr 2013, 17:47
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MPL is a bit of an issue because its linked to a company type and also SOP's

After a period of hours on type 1250 I have seen banded about it because unrestricted and transferable.

Before that your a bit stuffed and may have to convert onto the normal system if everything goes tits up. This would mean that you would have to do any additional training that's required to qualify for a normal CPL/ME/IR.

To get the full differences you will have to look at CAP 804. You would have to make up to the required experience levels.

but is there ever such a thing as a job guarantee in todays industry?
BA followed by Monarch in the UK are about your best bets. But bet is the right term because its is a gamble even though the odds are pretty good.
There are other things which can screw you up. Medical being one of them.
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