British Airways Future Pilot Programme.
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GFORC/GDA- I don't disagree that it's an advantage to have some flying experience but the guidance from BA is clear: "designed to select and train aspiring pilots, who currently have little or no flying experience".
All I'm saying is that if I had known that I would have needed to pick the "30 min flight experience" rather than the "paintballing experience" from my red letter day I probably wouldn't have bothered coming along. If that's what BA thinks sorts then men out from the boys then good luck to them.
All I'm saying is that if I had known that I would have needed to pick the "30 min flight experience" rather than the "paintballing experience" from my red letter day I probably wouldn't have bothered coming along. If that's what BA thinks sorts then men out from the boys then good luck to them.
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Interesting perspectives.. I think they state that no flight experience is necessary, but it helps if you have some. I think they do judge if you have had the opportunity to fly but not taken it up.. Even one launch in a glider would help...
I think earlier in the thread someone said BA are not looking for the extremes of someone who spends every minute at their local general aviation airport washing planes to afford to fly and the other extreme of someone who doesn't care about flying but could win the apprentice! It the best mix of the above who get selected.
Are Oxford giving out timelines for notification of those through to the final stage? I wonder if BA need to review, or if the flight schools (using BA's selection criteria) decide?
I think earlier in the thread someone said BA are not looking for the extremes of someone who spends every minute at their local general aviation airport washing planes to afford to fly and the other extreme of someone who doesn't care about flying but could win the apprentice! It the best mix of the above who get selected.
Are Oxford giving out timelines for notification of those through to the final stage? I wonder if BA need to review, or if the flight schools (using BA's selection criteria) decide?
Arrogant and patronising tone of captain was a reoccurring theme throughout the 45 mins. This guy was clearly lacking in life skills and an appreciation of anyone who has a background in anything other than flying.
BA/the FTOs are looking to allocate a precious resource. I suspect if I had been in that captain's shoes I would have been investigating the same point, the one that G-FORC3 has already made - " how could you know for certain that you want to be a pilot if you've never even had a trial lesson before?"
In case I lack life skills I hope that doesn't sound arrogant or patronising, and no, before anybody asks, it wasn't me asking the questions
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Wiggy's observations really hit the nail on the head. Such comments have been posted quite frequently - if a prospective candidate takes the trouble to read this thread from the very beginning. I, Wiggy and several others have often tried over the last few years to guide candidates using our own knowledge and experience. Some have heeded our advice, others have clearly chosen not to do so.
Whilst I do not have selection experience (other than my own), I have helped to train previously successful cadets. The selection procedure is designed to find the very best candidates from those applying by utilising a number of criteria.
The clearly defined, minimum academic qualifications required are the first filter. These academic achievements determine whether a candidate has the ability to successfully complete the licence theory and any future type rating exams. They do not need to be set as high as might be required, for example, for a medical degree, merely to ensure that the course material can be absorbed, understood and applied.
The psychometric tests serve to ensure that the candidate can demonstrate, for example, hand /eye co-ordination and spacial awareness, and that these will then allow steady progress during the flight phases of training, both initial and advanced. Given enough time almost anyone, given a degree of application, can learn to fly an aircraft. Time, however, is money and trainees who find it difficult to acquire the necessary skills in the time frame available become a liability to the school and the future airline.
The interviews, essays and group exercises can help to determine motivation, application, personality and team working skills. As has been said before, BA is not recruiting pilots per se, but future airline captains, who will require commercial awareness and man management skills of a high order. Some recent posts have clearly demonstrated in the writer significant shortfalls in areas such as individual initiative, resourcefulness and, sadly, a distinct lack of appreciation as to the potential effects of posting on a forum such as this.
In my personal experience there have always been those who, although successful in making commercial aviation their career, have sadly managed to slip through the selection procedure. The days of the autocratic captain, for example, have hopefully almost disappeared but, on double crewed long sector flights, one often had the opportunity, as one of the captains, to observe the sad lack of man management skills shown by an immediate contemporary - often a good friend. A brilliant pilot does not always indicate an effective man manager. All airlines will do their utmost to ensure that your face, as the applicant, fits with their company; and that will almost certainly be a reflection of your personality. A pilot interviewer will not take long to discover whether or not he or she would want to spend twelve hours with you on a flight deck, or spend time in your company, down route and off duty.
Assuming that you possess all of the above skills plus determination, motivation and an amiable personality, what else can you offer which will make you stand out from the other candidates in such a competitive arena? I will let you judge the qualities which you think may ensure your success.
Encouragement and assistance have always been my motives for contributing to the debate. Sadly, I would also have to add that I would advise the disaffected, the arrogant and those perhaps mature in years, but immature in outlook, to seek employment elsewhere. I have had the pleasure of meeting some of the successful FPP candidates from previous years - those who contributed to this thread always had sensible, considered and helpful information to impart. Some current posters would do well to re-read their own contributions - the eventual unsuccessful applicants are really not too difficult to identify.
Good luck.
Whilst I do not have selection experience (other than my own), I have helped to train previously successful cadets. The selection procedure is designed to find the very best candidates from those applying by utilising a number of criteria.
The clearly defined, minimum academic qualifications required are the first filter. These academic achievements determine whether a candidate has the ability to successfully complete the licence theory and any future type rating exams. They do not need to be set as high as might be required, for example, for a medical degree, merely to ensure that the course material can be absorbed, understood and applied.
The psychometric tests serve to ensure that the candidate can demonstrate, for example, hand /eye co-ordination and spacial awareness, and that these will then allow steady progress during the flight phases of training, both initial and advanced. Given enough time almost anyone, given a degree of application, can learn to fly an aircraft. Time, however, is money and trainees who find it difficult to acquire the necessary skills in the time frame available become a liability to the school and the future airline.
The interviews, essays and group exercises can help to determine motivation, application, personality and team working skills. As has been said before, BA is not recruiting pilots per se, but future airline captains, who will require commercial awareness and man management skills of a high order. Some recent posts have clearly demonstrated in the writer significant shortfalls in areas such as individual initiative, resourcefulness and, sadly, a distinct lack of appreciation as to the potential effects of posting on a forum such as this.
In my personal experience there have always been those who, although successful in making commercial aviation their career, have sadly managed to slip through the selection procedure. The days of the autocratic captain, for example, have hopefully almost disappeared but, on double crewed long sector flights, one often had the opportunity, as one of the captains, to observe the sad lack of man management skills shown by an immediate contemporary - often a good friend. A brilliant pilot does not always indicate an effective man manager. All airlines will do their utmost to ensure that your face, as the applicant, fits with their company; and that will almost certainly be a reflection of your personality. A pilot interviewer will not take long to discover whether or not he or she would want to spend twelve hours with you on a flight deck, or spend time in your company, down route and off duty.
Assuming that you possess all of the above skills plus determination, motivation and an amiable personality, what else can you offer which will make you stand out from the other candidates in such a competitive arena? I will let you judge the qualities which you think may ensure your success.
Encouragement and assistance have always been my motives for contributing to the debate. Sadly, I would also have to add that I would advise the disaffected, the arrogant and those perhaps mature in years, but immature in outlook, to seek employment elsewhere. I have had the pleasure of meeting some of the successful FPP candidates from previous years - those who contributed to this thread always had sensible, considered and helpful information to impart. Some current posters would do well to re-read their own contributions - the eventual unsuccessful applicants are really not too difficult to identify.
Good luck.
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Rejection at application stage
Hello all,
I'm writing here in the hope of garnering some advice after my application to the FPP was rejected at the initial stage.
CTC was my chosen school and I ensured that I completed the application form with great care. I submitted the application 7 or 8 days after the window first opened. I felt that I performed adequately in the multiple choice questions and I also paid great attention to constructing coherent, informed and well structured essay responses.
It was with great disappointment that I received the rejection email from BA recruitment in December and I subsequently re-read my submitted application in the hope of spotting where I went wrong. I was unable to spot any mistakes or areas lacking so I emailed and spoke on the phone to CTC twice in the hope of attaining some feedback. As was to be expected due to the thousands of applications they had received they were unable to provide me with any feedback.
I am under no illusions as to how competitive the FPP scheme is and appreciate the quality of the successful candidates will be exceptionally high. However I was particularly disappointed that my application didn't even make it past the paper sift stage.
I have spent the last decade attempting to increase my chances of being successful in my desired career as a pilot. I undertook flying scholarships with air cadets, played sport, completed my Gold D of E, ensured I performed well at A-levels (AAB), went to a good university, and most recently made sure that I've played an active role within the University Air Squadron.
While there will be numerous candidates with far better CVs than mine I still felt despondent that I was rejected at the initial stage. I've evaluated and reflected on my application and what may have let me down, but have been unable to reach any conclusions as to what these weaknesses may have been - and therefore have little idea what to do differently if FPP runs again at the end of 2014.
Some ideas I've had that may have contributed to my application being rejected are:
As you can see I've racked my brains for where I went wrong and sought feedback from CTC so I can try and learn from the process, however I have been unsuccessful in doing so.
If you've read this far - thank you. This is a final (and likely frivolous) attempt to try to get a better understanding of what I can learn from the process. If any of what I've said above stimulates a suggestion as to why my application may have been rejected - please do let me know. I really want to explore every avenue in order to better my chances of succeeding next time round at what really is an unrivalled opportunity.
I look forward to any possible replies. Thank you.
I'm writing here in the hope of garnering some advice after my application to the FPP was rejected at the initial stage.
CTC was my chosen school and I ensured that I completed the application form with great care. I submitted the application 7 or 8 days after the window first opened. I felt that I performed adequately in the multiple choice questions and I also paid great attention to constructing coherent, informed and well structured essay responses.
It was with great disappointment that I received the rejection email from BA recruitment in December and I subsequently re-read my submitted application in the hope of spotting where I went wrong. I was unable to spot any mistakes or areas lacking so I emailed and spoke on the phone to CTC twice in the hope of attaining some feedback. As was to be expected due to the thousands of applications they had received they were unable to provide me with any feedback.
I am under no illusions as to how competitive the FPP scheme is and appreciate the quality of the successful candidates will be exceptionally high. However I was particularly disappointed that my application didn't even make it past the paper sift stage.
I have spent the last decade attempting to increase my chances of being successful in my desired career as a pilot. I undertook flying scholarships with air cadets, played sport, completed my Gold D of E, ensured I performed well at A-levels (AAB), went to a good university, and most recently made sure that I've played an active role within the University Air Squadron.
While there will be numerous candidates with far better CVs than mine I still felt despondent that I was rejected at the initial stage. I've evaluated and reflected on my application and what may have let me down, but have been unable to reach any conclusions as to what these weaknesses may have been - and therefore have little idea what to do differently if FPP runs again at the end of 2014.
Some ideas I've had that may have contributed to my application being rejected are:
- My University course is a humanities one (I know officially this isn't a precluding factor)
- I didn't do maths A-level and only got a 'B' at GCSE
- CTC appears to be the school that has received the most applicants
- I performed to a lower standard than I thought in the multiple choice questions
- The 'qualities' I outlined as being required by BA pilots in my essay answer were not what markers were looking for
- The CTC staff members simply didn't like the sound of me when looking at my application!
As you can see I've racked my brains for where I went wrong and sought feedback from CTC so I can try and learn from the process, however I have been unsuccessful in doing so.
If you've read this far - thank you. This is a final (and likely frivolous) attempt to try to get a better understanding of what I can learn from the process. If any of what I've said above stimulates a suggestion as to why my application may have been rejected - please do let me know. I really want to explore every avenue in order to better my chances of succeeding next time round at what really is an unrivalled opportunity.
I look forward to any possible replies. Thank you.
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If it's any consolation wannabe_123, an application of mine was excepted some months ago on the 100% self funded CTC wings course, but not for the BA course. My thinking is that there are a very small amount of positions and there are bound to be some extremely high quality CVs that soak these up.
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FWIW at my selection day degree you did, doing Maths at A-Level didn't seem to matter. Whilst most of my fellow applicants had done some sort of engineering degree (thus requiring Maths at A-Level) there were a fair few candidates who had degrees in completely unrelated topics, not done further than GCSE maths and had little to no flight experience. Having said that, this was OAA so CTC may have been different.
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Hi wannabe,
I have no official insight into why you didn't get past stage one. However, I would say that you seem to be doing everything right. So don't beat yourself up. I know you mentioned that flying was your dream, but you have a great attitude and whatever you find yourself doing, you'll probably be damn good at it. Chin up.
I have no official insight into why you didn't get past stage one. However, I would say that you seem to be doing everything right. So don't beat yourself up. I know you mentioned that flying was your dream, but you have a great attitude and whatever you find yourself doing, you'll probably be damn good at it. Chin up.
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wannabe_123,
Bad luck on not getting through selection. I agree with the last 3 posters: your application sounds strong, but remember that a huge component of luck is needed in any application process that whittles thousands of applicants down to tens. The selection process cannot possibly claim to identify the best x candidates. There will inevitably be fantastic applicants who don't make it through, and seemingly average candidates who do. The only things the lucky ones have in common is that they have the attributes and abilities that BA is looking for. If your application had been read by another person, or even by the same person on a different day, things might be different.
To try to prove my point that there is no formula for the perfect application, here are some examples:
- There are plenty of guys/gals on the FPP with degrees that are non-technical; there are other people with relevant masters degrees, and some with no degree.
- There are people who didn't excel at school/university, only just met the academic criteria for selection, and plenty who didn't do maths A-level.
- There are people who have given up seriously high-powered careers, and others who haven't yet had any sort of career.
- There are people who take part in unusual sports / hobbies, and others who have "boring" pastimes.
- There are people who had significant flying experience when they applied, and others with only 1 hour in a light aircraft.
etc.
So don't give up, keep developing your skills, and good luck with your next application.
Bad luck on not getting through selection. I agree with the last 3 posters: your application sounds strong, but remember that a huge component of luck is needed in any application process that whittles thousands of applicants down to tens. The selection process cannot possibly claim to identify the best x candidates. There will inevitably be fantastic applicants who don't make it through, and seemingly average candidates who do. The only things the lucky ones have in common is that they have the attributes and abilities that BA is looking for. If your application had been read by another person, or even by the same person on a different day, things might be different.
To try to prove my point that there is no formula for the perfect application, here are some examples:
- There are plenty of guys/gals on the FPP with degrees that are non-technical; there are other people with relevant masters degrees, and some with no degree.
- There are people who didn't excel at school/university, only just met the academic criteria for selection, and plenty who didn't do maths A-level.
- There are people who have given up seriously high-powered careers, and others who haven't yet had any sort of career.
- There are people who take part in unusual sports / hobbies, and others who have "boring" pastimes.
- There are people who had significant flying experience when they applied, and others with only 1 hour in a light aircraft.
etc.
So don't give up, keep developing your skills, and good luck with your next application.
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Friday was the last assessment day at FTE. The suggestion is that they assessed around 350 candidates. Should find out who is making it to the next phase within the next few weeks.
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From what I recall, the last date for Oxford on the booking website was the 17th too..
They did 5 weeks @ 100 / 120 candidates a week. So would be approximately 600 for Oxford...
I seem to remember last year that BA sent out the invites to final selection for all the schools on the same day on the 22nd February.. So might be closer to a month until we find out.
They did 5 weeks @ 100 / 120 candidates a week. So would be approximately 600 for Oxford...
I seem to remember last year that BA sent out the invites to final selection for all the schools on the same day on the 22nd February.. So might be closer to a month until we find out.
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I do remember looking at the booking schedule for OAA and I noticed that their final selection day is 21st January. I was just wondering if anybody had received any updates since 18th December. I know that the email from OAA stated that they would write again towards the end of January but I can't help but refresh my emails.
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I was assessed on Friday 10th Jan and received the "no" mail on Tuesday 14th. If you've not had such a mail, no news is good news as they say. Good luck!
Last edited by JDA2012; 17th Apr 2015 at 16:01.
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Sorry to hear that JDA2012!! Fingers crossed the debrief will be useful and then re-apply in November 
. At least it is possible to book debriefs this year- as far as I am aware they were unable to provide any feedback last year.
. At least it is possible to book debriefs this year- as far as I am aware they were unable to provide any feedback last year.
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Indeed - that is what I am hoping! The mail received says that they "hope that you found the day challenging but enjoyable", and as I have already described the assessment as "a thoroughly enjoyable and challenging day" in a previous post my attitude at least is hopefully in the correct ballpark...
Last edited by JDA2012; 13th Nov 2015 at 20:52.
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FTE
On the FTE day, the woman who chatted to us through the day between activities said it was around 205 candidates they were assessing. If it's an average of two groups a day with 7 or 8 people in each group and there were two weeks in Jan and one in Dec for assessment then it seems about right, maybe just a little higher, maybe up to 240? All speculation of course and not expecting to hear anything until beginning/middle of Feb.
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If true then reaching the assessment day really is an achievement in and of itself. And assuming they plan to put 100 FTE candidates through to the next round, it improves our individual odds considerably. Fingers crossed! 
