Thomson Recruiting from Monday 3rd Sep
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Somerset
Posts: 420
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah well at least the low hours ladies and gents (myself included) won’t be crashing the Thomson servers now.
Good luck to all those that do apply, I hope that those recently laid off by Thomson will get first refusal. I guess that this opportunity along with the Jet2 recruitment of rated F/Os might offer a lifeline to those that have paid for a 737 rating and time on type, bit of a bugger if you invested in A320 series mind but I’m sure that their time will come.
Thank-you very much Matey, Yeoman and Lumpawarrump for taking the time and effort to come on here and share your information and inside perspective.
If Thomson do recruit cadets in the future and they genuinely run a competitive recruitment scheme with modular and integrated applicants treated the same without any influence from the integrated schools recruitment departments then that is definitely something to be applauded and may well set a very significant precedent. If other operators (Easyjet, Monarch etc) instigate a similar open cadet recruitment policy there will be a huge impact on the likes of CTC, OAA/CAE, FTE etc as one of the major justifications for the extra expense of the integrated course is the opportunity to be placed on cadet courses that are not open to the modular masses. Anyone considering starting an integrated course in the future might want to consider this possibility.
I’m sure that if/ when Thomson start recruiting cadets that the integrated schools will be falling over each other to try to fast track their graduates in and it will be interesting to see if Thomson recruiters resist their efforts or whether old integrated only recruitment policies remain.
Good luck to all those that do apply, I hope that those recently laid off by Thomson will get first refusal. I guess that this opportunity along with the Jet2 recruitment of rated F/Os might offer a lifeline to those that have paid for a 737 rating and time on type, bit of a bugger if you invested in A320 series mind but I’m sure that their time will come.
Thank-you very much Matey, Yeoman and Lumpawarrump for taking the time and effort to come on here and share your information and inside perspective.
If Thomson do recruit cadets in the future and they genuinely run a competitive recruitment scheme with modular and integrated applicants treated the same without any influence from the integrated schools recruitment departments then that is definitely something to be applauded and may well set a very significant precedent. If other operators (Easyjet, Monarch etc) instigate a similar open cadet recruitment policy there will be a huge impact on the likes of CTC, OAA/CAE, FTE etc as one of the major justifications for the extra expense of the integrated course is the opportunity to be placed on cadet courses that are not open to the modular masses. Anyone considering starting an integrated course in the future might want to consider this possibility.
I’m sure that if/ when Thomson start recruiting cadets that the integrated schools will be falling over each other to try to fast track their graduates in and it will be interesting to see if Thomson recruiters resist their efforts or whether old integrated only recruitment policies remain.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: CHESHIRE
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeoman
Thanks for that ray of hope. Its nice to see your definition of a cadet as a pilot who has worked their a~#e off to get those necessay bits of paper (Integrated/modular/military) and ready for the next step.
Its a shame PPY is being adopted by pilots in thomson, I know the cabin crew who are on these contracts get frustrated at leaving their positions for a few months of the year, to take up bar work. They are rusty at their jobs on return and unable to get mortgages due to the temp contract.
But good news all the same.
Thanks for that ray of hope. Its nice to see your definition of a cadet as a pilot who has worked their a~#e off to get those necessay bits of paper (Integrated/modular/military) and ready for the next step.
Its a shame PPY is being adopted by pilots in thomson, I know the cabin crew who are on these contracts get frustrated at leaving their positions for a few months of the year, to take up bar work. They are rusty at their jobs on return and unable to get mortgages due to the temp contract.
But good news all the same.
Although despite that, it's nice to see an airline show they care about their cadets...although that salary is 
and I'd rather work for Ryanair where I can get thousands of hours and not just 6 months flying.
and I'd rather work for Ryanair where I can get thousands of hours and not just 6 months flying.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And how many of those "thousands of hours" would you be using to pay-off your hyper-expensive Ryanair Type Rating?
Now all I have to do is make my way through the massive CTC-Screwing over and I'll be debt free. I just wish this news was coming through when I 'graduated' from CTC - it's certainly encouraging and a great ray of light for the industry.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There will be no period where PPY pilots are not employed. The deal is work full time for six months over the summer and then 2 weeks on 2 weeks off for six months over the winter. Salary is just over 81% of full time.
After 5 years of PPY50 you will then have the opportunity to change to a full time contract. Should a full time position become available sooner than 5 years that opportunity will also be offered to PPY pilots.
After 5 years of PPY50 you will then have the opportunity to change to a full time contract. Should a full time position become available sooner than 5 years that opportunity will also be offered to PPY pilots.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yesterdays advert was for rated experienced crews, not cadets. I believe the cadet schemes that are being discussed, may happen sometime next year.
Last edited by turbine100; 4th Sep 2012 at 07:16.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Matey/Yeoman,
Would it be possible to clarify a few points?
The intake next week is definitely not for NON-TYPE RATED applicants/Cadets
Secondly, would this ‘hypothetical’ NON TYPE RATED “fATPL holder” intake... which is a possibility for next year be a permanent contract like this PPY one recruiting next week, or would it be a temporary affair?
While it is highly commendable what Thomson are trying to do and the sentiment is greatly appreciated - if the target market is Modular candidates, then the plan may very well be flawed from the outset... if indeed a temporary contract is all that is on offer.
All of the Modular candidates I have met, myself included, are following that route through necessity or because they were reluctant to take a higher financial risk at an Integrated school.
Thus, we could not give up our existing employment for a temporary eight month contract on the off chance that we may get re-employed the following year...
Modular candidates are on this path because we generally have responsibilities or possess no financial support, whatsoever.
If it is a temporary contract then the only people who would be able to take up this opportunity would be the ‘wealthy’ - who by default, can be out of work for an indeterminate period. So... in essence, the only people who could apply for this position would be those without responsibility, who can be out of work at the end of the eight months and those with a lot of cash to tide them over...
Not wishing to take a swipe at any particular group, but is that not the usual profile of the average Integrated Student? Young, no responsibilities and with a decent amount of financial backing...
If this cadet intake next year is a temporary contract – then there won’t be many ‘true Modular’ candidates in a position to benefit from it. I’m sorry – but it had to be said.
Would it be possible to clarify a few points?
The intake next week is definitely not for NON-TYPE RATED applicants/CadetsSecondly, would this ‘hypothetical’ NON TYPE RATED “fATPL holder” intake... which is a possibility for next year be a permanent contract like this PPY one recruiting next week, or would it be a temporary affair?
While it is highly commendable what Thomson are trying to do and the sentiment is greatly appreciated - if the target market is Modular candidates, then the plan may very well be flawed from the outset... if indeed a temporary contract is all that is on offer.
All of the Modular candidates I have met, myself included, are following that route through necessity or because they were reluctant to take a higher financial risk at an Integrated school.
Thus, we could not give up our existing employment for a temporary eight month contract on the off chance that we may get re-employed the following year...
Modular candidates are on this path because we generally have responsibilities or possess no financial support, whatsoever.
If it is a temporary contract then the only people who would be able to take up this opportunity would be the ‘wealthy’ - who by default, can be out of work for an indeterminate period. So... in essence, the only people who could apply for this position would be those without responsibility, who can be out of work at the end of the eight months and those with a lot of cash to tide them over...
Not wishing to take a swipe at any particular group, but is that not the usual profile of the average Integrated Student? Young, no responsibilities and with a decent amount of financial backing...
If this cadet intake next year is a temporary contract – then there won’t be many ‘true Modular’ candidates in a position to benefit from it. I’m sorry – but it had to be said.
Last edited by Poose; 4th Sep 2012 at 15:57.
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Poose
It was ever thus and although it will be absolutely no consolation to you, 15 years ago I was you, starting on my second career and doing it the self improver / flying instructor route although I was lucky enough to get a part sponsorship.
To answer your question: It is possible that non Type Rated pilots could get in this time around but honestly, very unlikely. The specific profile stated is only there because we have a very heavy training load this winter as we refleet a lot of our current pilots onto the 737. The problem is not a lack of trainers or sim time, more a lack of Line Training Sectors. The Type Rated pilot would need a minimum of LT Sectors.
Next on the list this time would come those without a current 738 Type Rating but another preferably Boeing glass cockpit type as again, there is a reduced training requirement.
Finally are the cadet entry which I suggest is your category? Yes, there will probably not be any opening this year and if and when, the first year will be on a fixed 8 month contract on minimal pay as you suggest. The good news is that you will depart after that 8 months with what I like to think will be some quality training behind you (I'm a trainer!), a modern and in demand type on your licence and some experience of some of the trickiest airports in Europe under your belt. I understand that when the training load allows, the Head of Training is keen to have a wide mix of recruits.
When we in BALPA negotiated the recruitment terms recently we specifically aimed to widen the net beyond the traditional training providers and break the strangle hold which I sincerely hope will capture good candidates from the modular route. as we are not paying administration fees we successfully argued that the balance should go to the cadet and thus be cost neutral when compared with the status quo.
After your 8 months you will owe nothing and the. Company is not obliged to take you on next year. The advantage is that if you do well, why wouldn't we want you back? If you do come back, you will come back on the Permanent PPY deal as previously described but will not have any reduced salary at all because you've already payed your dues as a cadet.
So, like the curates egg for you, good in parts.
Hope this helps.
Kind regards
It was ever thus and although it will be absolutely no consolation to you, 15 years ago I was you, starting on my second career and doing it the self improver / flying instructor route although I was lucky enough to get a part sponsorship.
To answer your question: It is possible that non Type Rated pilots could get in this time around but honestly, very unlikely. The specific profile stated is only there because we have a very heavy training load this winter as we refleet a lot of our current pilots onto the 737. The problem is not a lack of trainers or sim time, more a lack of Line Training Sectors. The Type Rated pilot would need a minimum of LT Sectors.
Next on the list this time would come those without a current 738 Type Rating but another preferably Boeing glass cockpit type as again, there is a reduced training requirement.
Finally are the cadet entry which I suggest is your category? Yes, there will probably not be any opening this year and if and when, the first year will be on a fixed 8 month contract on minimal pay as you suggest. The good news is that you will depart after that 8 months with what I like to think will be some quality training behind you (I'm a trainer!), a modern and in demand type on your licence and some experience of some of the trickiest airports in Europe under your belt. I understand that when the training load allows, the Head of Training is keen to have a wide mix of recruits.
When we in BALPA negotiated the recruitment terms recently we specifically aimed to widen the net beyond the traditional training providers and break the strangle hold which I sincerely hope will capture good candidates from the modular route. as we are not paying administration fees we successfully argued that the balance should go to the cadet and thus be cost neutral when compared with the status quo.
After your 8 months you will owe nothing and the. Company is not obliged to take you on next year. The advantage is that if you do well, why wouldn't we want you back? If you do come back, you will come back on the Permanent PPY deal as previously described but will not have any reduced salary at all because you've already payed your dues as a cadet.
So, like the curates egg for you, good in parts.
Hope this helps.
Kind regards
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeoman,
Many thanks for the quick response!
Things are much clearer now.
In the words of General Melchett from Blackadder...
"It looks like I might have to sit this one out with the fat wheezy kids and those with a letter from matron..."
Simply could not take the financial risk...
Gutted.
Many thanks for the quick response!
Things are much clearer now.
In the words of General Melchett from Blackadder...
"It looks like I might have to sit this one out with the fat wheezy kids and those with a letter from matron..."
Simply could not take the financial risk...
Gutted.
Last edited by Poose; 4th Sep 2012 at 17:15.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: CHESHIRE
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Poose I don't think modular guys n gals are the target market here, it would be open to all, regardless of how the individual gained their ticket. Which is a good fair competition.
Being a mod fella myself, I have had to make the impossible possible to hold down a job and complete my training and then go on to keep myself current.
If an opportunity like what TOM offer comes up, I would give one of my duplicated body parts to be on it. I would then have to consider seeking any kind of employment whilst TOM decided if they will have me back. That's me, but we are all different.
Being a mod fella myself, I have had to make the impossible possible to hold down a job and complete my training and then go on to keep myself current.
If an opportunity like what TOM offer comes up, I would give one of my duplicated body parts to be on it. I would then have to consider seeking any kind of employment whilst TOM decided if they will have me back. That's me, but we are all different.
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Max
This is a rumour network so take the following with lots of salt!
It is possible that we won't get enough suitable candidates who are NG rated AND current as per the present web page so if you are not, don't proceed with that.
IF ( note big IF) that comes to pass then it may be that they widen the net to probably NG non current and so on. Again, VERY BIG IF.
I'm not sure how many would want to come from LS and RYR to think of two NG operators, most Baby are probably Classic only?
Who knows?
Hope it helps
This is a rumour network so take the following with lots of salt!
It is possible that we won't get enough suitable candidates who are NG rated AND current as per the present web page so if you are not, don't proceed with that.
IF ( note big IF) that comes to pass then it may be that they widen the net to probably NG non current and so on. Again, VERY BIG IF.
I'm not sure how many would want to come from LS and RYR to think of two NG operators, most Baby are probably Classic only?
Who knows?
Hope it helps
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lumpawarrump,
For some of us the severity of the risk can be too great...
Eighteen months ago I ended up high and dry with no job as a result of the Government's SDSR.
When you have been down to your last £200 and potentially facing bankruptcy - with everything you've worked for about to evaporate... Well, it tends to focus the priorities.
The price of financial security in my life has been thoroughly ingrained into me ever since as a result...
If it has made me 'financially risk averse' then so be it; but when you have debts from putting yourself through university and a 20k unsecured loan for your CPL/IR - then your job is booted from under you, it makes you look at temporary contracts on offer from the airlines with a slightly more cynical perspective.
I am speechless when I hear about the amount of debt that some of the Integrated blokes have found themselves in... I view their plight with genuine concern.
All I'm saying is 'buyer beware' - but it sounds like the Thomson pilots and BALPA really have tried to level the playing field somewhat.
Good effort!
For some of us the severity of the risk can be too great...
Eighteen months ago I ended up high and dry with no job as a result of the Government's SDSR.
When you have been down to your last £200 and potentially facing bankruptcy - with everything you've worked for about to evaporate... Well, it tends to focus the priorities.
The price of financial security in my life has been thoroughly ingrained into me ever since as a result...
If it has made me 'financially risk averse' then so be it; but when you have debts from putting yourself through university and a 20k unsecured loan for your CPL/IR - then your job is booted from under you, it makes you look at temporary contracts on offer from the airlines with a slightly more cynical perspective.
I am speechless when I hear about the amount of debt that some of the Integrated blokes have found themselves in... I view their plight with genuine concern.
All I'm saying is 'buyer beware' - but it sounds like the Thomson pilots and BALPA really have tried to level the playing field somewhat.
Good effort!
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: EU
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And how many of those "thousands of hours" would you be using to pay-off your hyper-expensive Ryanair Type Rating?
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mile High Executive Suite
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not type rated but still gonna apply
I'm being a bit of SMARTARSE here but i'm gonna apply for the job even though i'm not type rated. obviously if i don't get through and my application is binned, hopefully i'm not stepping on anyones toes.
let me explain why.....
When starting the application, one of the first questions is ''Do you hold or are you able to hold a current type rating on ......''
Now i don't HOLD a type rating but i certainly AM ABLE to hold a rating, am i not??
I probably won't get the job but still gonna try. Gotta be in it to win it eh??
let me explain why.....
When starting the application, one of the first questions is ''Do you hold or are you able to hold a current type rating on ......''
Now i don't HOLD a type rating but i certainly AM ABLE to hold a rating, am i not??
I probably won't get the job but still gonna try. Gotta be in it to win it eh??
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: CHESHIRE
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Poose - Sorry to hear you have had it so bad, Im sure there are many cases out there similar, I too have my own story. There should be somewhere we can all go to console ourselves (with free gov funded beer). I hope the right opportunity turns up for you.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Age: 50
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not type rated but still gonna apply
I'm being a bit of SMARTARSE here but i'm gonna apply for the job even though i'm not type rated. obviously if i don't get through and my application is binned, hopefully i'm not stepping on anyones toes.
let me explain why.....
When starting the application, one of the first questions is ''Do you hold or are you able to hold a current type rating on ......''
Now i don't HOLD a type rating but i certainly AM ABLE to hold a rating, am i not??
I probably won't get the job but still gonna try. Gotta be in it to win it eh??
I'm being a bit of SMARTARSE here but i'm gonna apply for the job even though i'm not type rated. obviously if i don't get through and my application is binned, hopefully i'm not stepping on anyones toes.
let me explain why.....
When starting the application, one of the first questions is ''Do you hold or are you able to hold a current type rating on ......''
Now i don't HOLD a type rating but i certainly AM ABLE to hold a rating, am i not??
I probably won't get the job but still gonna try. Gotta be in it to win it eh??
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Standby...
Age: 44
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This all sounds great to me. I've recently finished my cpl/ir training and am at the beginning of the long struggle for my first flying job. To see an airline such as TOM decide to avoid the current ctc/oaa route is exciting and I hope others follow.
Even if it is only 8 months initially it can provide a step up to other options, and as yeoman said on a previous post, if you're good then there's the chance you'd be kept on. I would personally jump at it, even though it would mean leaving a permanent ops job at another airline.
Out of interest can yeoman/matey or anyone else shed light on how this came about? Was it TOM lead or BALPA, to avoid the 'integrated only' approach with big FTOs? Perhaps BALPA may promote the idea to other airlines.... here's hoping!
Even if it is only 8 months initially it can provide a step up to other options, and as yeoman said on a previous post, if you're good then there's the chance you'd be kept on. I would personally jump at it, even though it would mean leaving a permanent ops job at another airline.
Out of interest can yeoman/matey or anyone else shed light on how this came about? Was it TOM lead or BALPA, to avoid the 'integrated only' approach with big FTOs? Perhaps BALPA may promote the idea to other airlines.... here's hoping!
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whitti
just to be clear, after the 8 months the plan is that you would NOT be kept on in continuous employment. What I said was that if you are good then the following year the chances would be better as you are a nown quantity and of course that is dependent on a requirement for recruitment the following year. On a brighter note, things change all the time in aviation as the current crop of CTC cadets have found. They are now well placed to throw there hat in the ring. I would not discount the possibility of you joining us on a fixed 8 month cadet deal only to find that half way through we suddenly have a need now, all I'm saying is that it is possible but by no means certain.
As for the initiative, we were locked in discussions with the company on a raft of issues all around reducing costs part of which was a salar scale for new joiners. As a Company Council we sat down to consider or Mission Statement (Ugh, Corporate!) but it gave us a good steer on where we wanted to go. One item was for TOM to be "A career airline of choice".
From that one of our number had a Road to Damascus moment and after about 5 minutes we realised we could make it cost neutral to the company, breal the strangle hold of some organisations where despite selection processes, ability to pay was still a factor and not healthy for the industry and finally, put just a bit more cash into a cadet's pocket and have a structured career path for a cadet entry. Win - win -win.
We presented it to the company and they agreed - Why wouldn't they? So BALPA idea, open minded company (at least on that bit!!!!).
There has been quite a bit of interest from Big BALPA on a number of things we have done so you never know, the concept might spread.
APOLOGY
In an earlier post I alluded to Baby pilots being only Classic. What I SHOULD have done is ready the bloody criteria better because of course it includes 300-900! I sincerely apologise if my post came across as dismissive of non NG rated guys.
just to be clear, after the 8 months the plan is that you would NOT be kept on in continuous employment. What I said was that if you are good then the following year the chances would be better as you are a nown quantity and of course that is dependent on a requirement for recruitment the following year. On a brighter note, things change all the time in aviation as the current crop of CTC cadets have found. They are now well placed to throw there hat in the ring. I would not discount the possibility of you joining us on a fixed 8 month cadet deal only to find that half way through we suddenly have a need now, all I'm saying is that it is possible but by no means certain.
As for the initiative, we were locked in discussions with the company on a raft of issues all around reducing costs part of which was a salar scale for new joiners. As a Company Council we sat down to consider or Mission Statement (Ugh, Corporate
!) but it gave us a good steer on where we wanted to go. One item was for TOM to be "A career airline of choice".From that one of our number had a Road to Damascus moment and after about 5 minutes we realised we could make it cost neutral to the company, breal the strangle hold of some organisations where despite selection processes, ability to pay was still a factor and not healthy for the industry and finally, put just a bit more cash into a cadet's pocket and have a structured career path for a cadet entry. Win - win -win.
We presented it to the company and they agreed - Why wouldn't they? So BALPA idea, open minded company (at least on that bit!!!!).
There has been quite a bit of interest from Big BALPA on a number of things we have done so you never know, the concept might spread.
APOLOGY
In an earlier post I alluded to Baby pilots being only Classic. What I SHOULD have done is ready the bloody criteria better because of course it includes 300-900! I sincerely apologise if my post came across as dismissive of non NG rated guys.
Last edited by yeoman; 6th Sep 2012 at 07:55.