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Am I back at the beginning ?

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Am I back at the beginning ?

Old 23rd May 2012, 11:22
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: France
Age: 34
Posts: 31
Am I back at the beginning ?


One year ago I was a lucky low timer who found a job, type rating paid by employer, nice airline etc... Then I lost my luck as the airline closed at the end of 2011...

Now I'm back on the market, still low timer (500 TT, 170 on A320) and basically I can't find anything. There is this big wall of "500 hours on type" and below that minimum, there is nothing. I always heard that the first job was the hardest to find (it was hard OK) but I don't see anything coming, so the second one seems to be even harder...

So my question is: Am I back at the same situation I was 1 year ago (i.e considering instructor rating and towing glider on my free time, building hours on SEP) or is there still hope to find a job? (I'm not focused on 320 and big jet...)

ptithomme is offline  
Old 23rd May 2012, 11:38
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Madrid
Age: 35
Posts: 87
Air Mediterrannée?
dudubrdx is offline  
Old 23rd May 2012, 13:07
  #3 (permalink)  
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 943
Whatever you decide, my advice, find 1500 euro a year to do a sim and keep the A320 valid....shame you only have 170 hrs on it....what was that two months experience?
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Old 23rd May 2012, 13:31
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: fort sheridan, il
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you have very little flying time

you were the copilot on the airbus

you have very little pilot in command time

you don't even come close to having an airline transport certificate

you soared too high on wings of wax

try to get a CFI and a job as an instructor...and yes using the sim to keep current in the airbus is a nice touch.

I didn't fly my first jet till I had a full atp

and didn't get a real job with a real airline till I had over 5000 hours
sevenstrokeroll is offline  
Old 23rd May 2012, 18:50
  #5 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: EU
Age: 34
Posts: 24
In my oppinion, your case is the only one where the P2F is understandable. Get 330 (or if you cant, 500) hours package. You have the TR already, which is really a waste, but if you have it, well, use it.
Roope is offline  
Old 23rd May 2012, 22:12
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Age: 46
Posts: 23
Pay for the extra hours on type if you can afford to. It's nice to keep the rating valid but give it 2,3 years from now and spending £2k a pop it soon adds up and you may be still sat around. Like you said they want 500hrs on type and most probably 1500hrs total.But hey you make the decision it's your life good luck
GONE FLYING is offline  
Old 24th May 2012, 04:18
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2010
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and didn't get a real job with a real airline till I had over 5000 hours
INDEED quite slow there mate
de facto is offline  
Old 24th May 2012, 21:07
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 410
Definitely go and P2F for the extra hours.... mad not to
BigNumber is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2012, 08:27
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: France
Age: 34
Posts: 31
Thanks for the answer.

Well, I do not consider P2F as a solution...

sevenstrokeroll: I started high OK, but hey I would have been stupid to refuse such an opportunity... I think you come from the US (Wrong ?) but here in Europe the situation is not the same. CFI = 10 000€ and then voluntary activity, that doesn't pay your bills...

Hoppefully my first sim was done by the airline, so my TR is now valid until next year...
ptithomme is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2012, 08:30
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere close to me
Posts: 715
I was made a phone call to Parc Aviation, and they told me they had found placement for pilots with 150 hours on the A320, so I would would give it a go, there might be some chance somewhere!
truckflyer is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2012, 09:58
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Madrid
Age: 35
Posts: 87
From what I understand, your entire training was paid for by french ENAC.
I understand your personal situation, but think about being in the same situation and having already invested 100K +...
dudubrdx is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2012, 10:28
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 39
Posts: 473
Hang in there, I was once in a similar situation and it all worked out. Get flying anything over the summer and start to make contact with tour operators who often pull in low hour pilots on summer contracts each feb-march. One summer contract will have you up at about 700 hours with your current A320 time
bex88 is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2012, 13:03
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: France
Posts: 750
Everyday we see examples that confirms it is better to start with the biginning.

Start on C172 and the like, and you won't be stuck like you are.

It takes 5/10 years of flight before flying for the airlines.

The good thing to start with small airplanes are:

-you discover the world, and it just make sense for a pilot,
-your initial training is rather cheap,
-you really learn the basics, and you really learn to be a pilot,
-you don't get stuck without job,
-you have a salary all along and don't pay for this or that,
-you arrive in the airlines at the same age as the one who looked for a job during yeeeaars, in addition you'll have thousands of hours, your captain upgrade will be faster,
-And the most important: you can enjoy the incredible journey and adventure, be proud of yourself, because arriving at the top without climbing the mountain will never have the same taste.
KAG is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2012, 14:55
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: fort sheridan, il
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defacto....5000 hours was quite competitive at the time for a job with a ''real'' airline. of course that was when we had pensions, great pay, would be done with our flying in 12 days or less for the month ...oh and the flight attendants (female) were great looking

not like now a days...mate.
sevenstrokeroll is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2012, 15:01
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: fort sheridan, il
Posts: 1,656

you mentioned that CFI activity was voluntary? what does that mean?

don't you get paid to give people instruction over there? we don't get paid much but its something...maybe 20 US dollars an hour or so.

look kid...good luck...I know I've lost 5 jobs in aviation due to companies going out of business.

10,000 euro to get a CFI? that's nuts. with your current level of flying, it shouldn't be more than 10 or 20 hours of instruction plus the cost of the plane (retractable gear plane) at least that's what it would be in the place planes were invented
sevenstrokeroll is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2012, 16:08
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mare Nostrum
Age: 38
Posts: 1,406
A JAA flight instructor rating requires a minimum of 30 hours of flight time. The courses usually cost at least €7000, depending where you go. Things are different in Europe than FAA land. Plus, plane rental is much more expensive in Europe than the US. In my local area, a Cessna 172 goes for €140 per hour. A DA-20 goes for €170 per hour, and a Seneca is over €400 per hour. Plus, the Flight Instructor course requires 125 hours of theory.

For what it is worth though, flight instructing is NOT voluntary (aka charity work). I have a friend getting paid €27/hr (continental Europe), another one getting 20GBP/hr (UK), and several getting €18/hr in a southern European country. I get the impression that lots of guys in Europe don't want to be an instructor and go straight to a jet. Of course this isn't everybody. There are other guys who resort to instructing because they couldn't get an airline/jet job. This is quite a different mentality than the US where a large majority start out instructing without giving it a second thought.
zondaracer is online now  
Old 3rd Jun 2012, 18:28
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: fort sheridan, il
Posts: 1,656
wow...things are different . how do you guys get anything done?

I wonder...how many US folks come to europe to learn to fly?

I wonder...how many european folk come to the US to learn to fly?

wonder if you can convert USA licenses to your euro stuff? seems like a waste.

I sure didn't get 125 hours of theory to be a CFI. but I typed my lesson plans up real neat.

by the way, Lindbergh instructed.
sevenstrokeroll is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2012, 18:54
  #18 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: europe
Age: 52
Posts: 38
stay away of JAA, I have both, FAA and JAA, and I regret my conversion to JAA.All my friends fly on FAA certificate,in asia& africa , or on "N" in europe.

the guys I know with JAA are now jobless or have worked a little until their company goes bust.most are very unhappy about their situation because they know once they are out, they need 500h on the plane to change plane and now they have to pay for everything.

..and you keep rating forever than these 5 years fu...g limit on rating in the JAA land.

sorry guys, but JAA is failing as well the EASA even recruiters now in asia and africa want FAA when in the past they wanted JAA, but too expensive, and gov change their mind and went back to FAA.

I show my 2 licences one day to a recruiter and he told me;"oh, good you have FAA, because we prefer FAA"

I don't give a toss anymore of this JAA( at 43, impossible to get hired by a big airlines,ryanair and others want kids only) and stay with my FAA, cost me practically nothing, a flight review when I want,. certif for life, cheap type ratings (9000$ for an a320 against 35'000 euro in JAAland), positive attitude through the FAA system, no landing fee, no student tax, etc....the dream!!!!

in europe there is NO(or close of 0.001%) jobs in aviation unless your are a god captain with xxxxxx hours on jet or the lucky one to join ryanair, so forget about it! not worth the 80-100000 pounds invested in this EU flying dream.

Plenty of guys with 300h , type rating 320, and will never get a job because time pass, and after 1-2 years unemployed airlines don't want us..

Last edited by a320renewal; 3rd Jun 2012 at 19:04.
a320renewal is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2012, 19:19
  #19 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mare Nostrum
Age: 38
Posts: 1,406
I am an American who married a European and then moved to Europe. I met many Europeans who did FAA training and later converted to a JAA rating. It cost us at least €15000 and a minimum 7 months for most of us to do this conversion. There are increased costs everywhere from landing fees, fuel, taxes, licensing fees, and the list goes on. These are fees and bureaucratic measures that are much less or non-existent in the USA.

Not to mention that GA is much smaller in Europe than the US. Partly due to the bureaucracy and costs. I have friends who think that I am crazy for leaving the states, and admittedly my pilot career would be much further along at less cost had I stayed in the US.

Last edited by zondaracer; 3rd Jun 2012 at 19:30.
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