OK no pilot. Then what??

[Dogfactory]

I can read on this forum that dreamers are often mistaken for wannabes or videogame players, they are even considered parasites of the magic world of aviation... But let me ask to all these unsatisfied pilots: what was driving somebody to fly an aeroplane before airliners were not existing? Was the bucks and glory or the dream? I truly believe that moaning about getting low paid or unemployment in the industry is just some pussycat attitude. Nowadays EVERY industry is in a mess, every skilled professional has difficulties in getting recognised, and seeing aviation as if it should be spared from common human problems is just a confirmation that some people fly only for the status but would be scared to hell to do any aerobatic. It's the people who actually spoil the aviation, and it's the people that block aviation from being available to anyone.

[a320renewal]

sorry English is not my 1 st language....

most guys i know ask if it worths to become a pilot and fly?they think they will get a job right after school...

well, they should ask themselves if they will get a job.

it s not about if it s "cool" or not to be a pilot, it' s 'will i get a paid job?', or 'will i stay at home for years sending CV and get nothing in the end?'.

and even if you get a job, what it is???: p2f, fly for 6 months, and look for a job again, and where the money come from after years and years of training and line training..

really guys, most guys will not get a job, I think 99% will never get a job, who want a 200h pilot nowadays? nobody.

This is why I have to give up , can not spend the rest of my life, to pay these guys at the CAA and who do nothing for us,just charge more and more euro.

Now JAA pilot are looking in asia, because they can not get a job in their own country...how pathetic is that?

even if you are lucky to get a job in a loco, you will see, they will use you, you will work lot of hours, and no help from the company, you will have to set your own company, and you will be 'freelance' for them, with 0 guaranty.
They will be against you everyday.At the end they will simply kick you out an get a new guy with money full of euro and big dreams.

a few friends lost their job, they didn't call them back, now sitting at home with their 500 h of airbus.rip! it barely work for trti or trte, but even these guys, have to look in china...why china? because they can not get a job in their own country.

[KAG]

Now JAA pilot are looking in asia, because they can not get a job in their own country...how pathetic is that?

It's maybe very pathetic but it sures pay the bills
I am an European pilot with a Canadian licence flying in Asia anyway, not sure if I am concerned by your comment...

An airplane needs oil, somebody who plans today to fly for the next 30 or 40 years should ask him/herself the oil question very seriously.

Any serious government, person, institution on earth will tell you: watch out, after around 2015 severe turbulences ahead concerning oil.

Don't come back to pprune a few years later complaining you have not been warned.

[Elias-8]

99 degrees

haha you're funny and accurate. Well, I guess they do teach physics, but after you go on the job, the details of physics are out the window, except for when loading (stability, displacement, buyancy) then fixing positions (range and bearing, DGPS) Some of us also use Sextants on deep sea voyages, to take bearings of celestial bodies, the declination of the earth and corrections (Astronavigation). The other theoretical stuff that is of no use is out the window.

Next time you're flying stick a kettle out the window and tell me when it starts boiling ...lol

cheers

[LPVL]

Tacitus,

In fact I am quite in the same boat as you are. I hold the PPL since 2006 and I work as an telecommunication engineer.

Have you already selected the FTO? I am thinking about starting with ATPL Theory from Bristol GS and you?

Cheers!

[Tacitus]

If i could do a modular course where i am now i would do it, no doubt about it.
But unfortunately where i am now there is not a single flight school so in order to undertake flight training my only option would be to quit. My main concern in order to do this is if a pilot career is a viable otion for people like me, or us as i see many people are in the same boat like me. I understand that flying is more of a passion and believe me i have this passion and i would be very misserable for all my life if i didnt try at least. But at the end will i be able to have an income from flying?I didnt say salary, but an income just to cover my expences at least. So my bottom line is that i see flight training as an investment in order to do something i want but at the same time i want afterwards to be able to pay a rent and afford a crappy old car. Is this doable??I wish i was younger but when i was young i was really broke and i hate debt.I want to be optistic but i see only doom and gloom.
PS as for having a back up career i think that in order to do this you have to spend aditional money and money is a luxury these days

[mad_jock]

You can do it virtually all through the Uk system in bits.

Three week PPL in the states.

distance learning ground school.

You would need three weeks twice to do the residential bit then exams.

Only when you got up to IR would you have to jack the job in.

I held down a 6 days a week 10 hours a day job up until I started the CPL/IR. From day one to last day of my FI course it was 14 months. And I worked for 10 months of that. With 6 weeks off which was why I was doing 6 days a week instead of 5 to build up the weeks off.

[taxistaxing]

MJ, what are your thoughts on trying to work throughout the IR? What makes you say you would need to jack the job in at this point? I ask because I've heard conflicting views on this, and would hope to work through both the CPL and IR if it is possible.

Thanks in advance!

[mad_jock]

To be honest its been rather a long time since I did mine but.....


I really don't think so. You have live and breath it while you are doing it. Its by far the hardest thing you will have learned to date. And any knock backs cost a fortune. The CPL you should be able to get rid of in two weeks wx depending.

I have heard of folk managing to do the IR part time 3 days a week and returning home to instruct over the weekend. It sort of works but you are physically and mentally knackard doing the IR and I would doud't you would be much use to be honest.

You really need to give the IR your best shot and the only way personally i think you can do it is by committing to the course.

I am sure there will be some current IR instructors come along and give thier views on it.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

I did my IR whilst still holding down a full time job but it was so tough.
Took me about 10 weeks and apart from work everything else was on hold.
I work shifts so that helped a bit. I usually do 2 late starts a week so used to do 2-3 hours sim in the morning on those days go in to work looking like a zombie. Weekends was spent at the airfield back seating and catching up with other students and the other 3 days was reading my notes. I gave my partner 1 or 2 nights a week just us.

[taxistaxing]

Thanks both. It's a way off for me yet but alway good to get views on these things...

[a320renewal]

I did my IR in 2004, passed first time, and never found a job in Europe in 8 years despite having a 320 rating, and still no job.
I passed most interviews and could have had a good job now but for political reasons, they have preferred candidates coming from other countries.

I am not a 200h pilot and with my 2000h in my logbook, some companies told me I am over qualified to fly a turboprop and would be bored after 3 months.I have even received letters telling me I am over quailfied for the 737 (I have never touched a 737 in my life).
Now I am too old, companies want guys between 20-35.
BA hire guys with 0 hours or God captain on 777 with 15000 hours in the last 3 months.
So, guys, where do we go now with our expensive JAR license, Africa? fly some 182 and compete with desperate locals who don't like us?
If I knew that Europe were going to screw me, I would have stayed with my FAA rating.
what's the point to go through all these theoretical exams, IR, Multi, type rating, if it' s to finish in a lost country making nothing or to finish unemployed.I know we are in a recession , but is it a reason for the guys sitting at the JAA, to ask more and more money from us ? This is why Europe is collapsing, They build Europe on big dreams, they build it on success, and there is no plan to fix failures.
oh well! rant over, life could be worse.At least we are not at war, not yet!

[Dogfactory]

War would be the solution to give all aviators a job, plus you have the advantage of cleaning all this crap and start a brave new world.

[mad_jock]

I did my IR in 2004, passed first time, and never found a job in Europe in 8 years despite having a 320 rating, and still no job

And maybe you have some personality defect that means nobody wants you in thier cockpit. Just because you have payed for your training doesn't give you the right to a job.

And as for the letters they can't exactly send you a letter saying sorry but we think you are a knob and don't want to employ you. There are people who we do like even though they don't have the same qualifications as you we are going to employ them anyway because they arn't a knob

[Dan the weegie]

Did my IR in 2011, I'm a little bit fat and a bit on the older side but busted my ass networking and meeting as many people as possible. Incredibly, I'm employed flying TPs.

Sending letters and emails is just not enough, you must get out and meet people and present yourself as a positive hard working person.

I've said this before, the hardest part about going professional is about getting the job, the licences aren't easy and they are expensive but networking and finding work is every bit as much of the process as going through the training.

[a320renewal]

And maybe you have some personality defect that means nobody wants you in thier cockpit

don't say what you don't know ,I was in a company, in USA.this is how I got my 2000h.and have no "defect".

we represent 7% of the worldwide population with our JAA license, so I can tell you, you are better off with a FAA and a job outside of europe, than be with a nice shiny blue JAA license taking the dust and no job like 99.9% of EU pilots who still struggle to get their money back and sit at home because EU is us.

go FAA , whatever, and keep your money.

[mad_jock]

But points less having FAA if you want to live and work in europe.

Especially now the EASA rules are changed.

[Wirbelsturm]

BA hire guys with 0 hours or God captain on 777 with 15000 hours in the last 3 months.

God Captain, in this case, would be in the RHS at the bottom of the seniority roster with all the other new joiners.

There isn't a single pilot on earth who does it for the money. I think that if one looks at the lucrative side of it he will always be unsatisfied with the job (if he gets one) but if one loves flying and airplanes he will likely get a job in the industry and always be glad of what he does.

I'm with Wiggy on this one. 30 years in and I'm flying big aeroplanes around the globe for financial gain and financial gain only. I get a buzz out of a good landing in rubbish weather along with everybody, I like to demonstrate my skill. Same as flying in the worst weather mother nature could throw at me in my previous flying career before the Airlines, different scenario but the skill set remains. But I don't do it for the 'love' of flying or the 'passion' I do it for cold, hard cash and the expectation that, for the company I work for, I will carry, safely, upto 300 people (including, many times, major business/political personalities and AAA list celebrities) who have paid alot of money (1st class etc.) to their destination in accordance with the safety standards I and my colleagues apply to our daily work thus maintaining the safety and efficiency record of their/my company. For these services and responsibilities I demand adequate recompense.

To do so for less sells yourself and your abilities short and lessens the professionalism of your colleagues/peers.

Sod the 'live the dream' it's about time we all got real and understood, in our lifestyle driven world, that 'Commercial Piloting' is a pretty cr@p and demanding job both psychologically and socially.

Think about that before 'living the dream' because the 'dream' wears thin after a while.

[BlackandBrown]

Hear hear, I completely agree with wirbelsturm.

[Dogfactory]

But pointless having FAA if you want to live and work in europe.
Especially now the EASA rules are changed.

Couldn't agree more. After my research on where to train (and I haven't started yet) I came to the conclusion that to do it outside Europe one must have all the money ready at hand, whilst if you must raise the money during training the only option is to stay in your own country (unless that country doesn't offer flight training). So i find it pretty senseless to mention that flight training is achieved professionally only in, say, the US.

Jobwise, I disagree that in Europe there are no options for pilots. In the last month I have seen TWO jobs advertised on this very forum (Italian section) and successfully assigned to someone. Now, if a pilot's vacancy can be filled through an online forum I believe the situation is not so desperate as someone wants it to look like. Maybe it's all down to the same old thing: you need an ethic and professional attitude when seeking for a job, and you might get it.