Shortage of Pilots?
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Shortage of Pilots?
One significant pilot jobs website states:
"Statistics
45,429 Registered Pilots
1,996 Pilot Jobs
77 Different Countries "
There is absolutely no shortage of under 1500h pilots.
There is absolutely no shortage of A320/B737 rated pilots with less than 1000h on type.
There is a shortage of good instructors and experienced >3000h on type Captains in Asia and Middle East.
What do the Pilot Mills sell?
"Statistics
45,429 Registered Pilots
1,996 Pilot Jobs
77 Different Countries "
There is absolutely no shortage of under 1500h pilots.
There is absolutely no shortage of A320/B737 rated pilots with less than 1000h on type.
There is a shortage of good instructors and experienced >3000h on type Captains in Asia and Middle East.
What do the Pilot Mills sell?
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Statistics can explain everything and nothing. It's a very complex matter so I suggest not to use them to make quick statements.
Things to think about...
Who's in the statistics?
Who has made the statistics?
Are all the registered pilots unemployed?
Where does the information of 1996 pilot jobs come from?
What's the statistics relation to B737/A320 pilots?
What's the default margin?
and so on, and so on…
Things to think about...
Who's in the statistics?
Who has made the statistics?
Are all the registered pilots unemployed?
Where does the information of 1996 pilot jobs come from?
What's the statistics relation to B737/A320 pilots?
What's the default margin?
and so on, and so on…
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Jobs are starting to appear now. just have a look on the various websites.
Once the experienced pool is drained there will be opportunities for those seeking a first job. Infact already the minimum requirement are starting to reduce significantly.
Now might well be the time to start modular training.
Once the experienced pool is drained there will be opportunities for those seeking a first job. Infact already the minimum requirement are starting to reduce significantly.
Now might well be the time to start modular training.
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I admire your optomism....but....
pretty much every website job is a contract opportunity - for experienced pilots. The competition is intense - laid off experienced guys, military guys, guys trying to get a better type, guys trying to return from the sandpit.
For those with no TR/no jet time the chances will continue to be fairly slim.
pretty much every website job is a contract opportunity - for experienced pilots. The competition is intense - laid off experienced guys, military guys, guys trying to get a better type, guys trying to return from the sandpit.
For those with no TR/no jet time the chances will continue to be fairly slim.
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hi
hi there ,
well its a little bit depending on "what " and " when " u want it.
I served my way somehow up ,meaning ,Pistons Island hoping followed by Turboprops and then Jet.
Its tough to join direct on a big airliner in my eyes if you dont have a huge financial Background .(not talking about schemes like KLM or Lufthansa )
I would say there jobs out ,small first underpaid but good to experience the "whole " aviation "Circus".
In my eyes noone can take u the experienc flying nighcargo on a shorts or Dornier europewide.
At least you can tell ,when youre a senior on a bigger Airliner or Business Jet ,your stories to a young chap next to you .
I understand the difficulty of all newbies ,but even we with hours have Prooblems since the big word worldwide is "Saving/reducing costs ".
Head up ,all will be good .
well its a little bit depending on "what " and " when " u want it.
I served my way somehow up ,meaning ,Pistons Island hoping followed by Turboprops and then Jet.
Its tough to join direct on a big airliner in my eyes if you dont have a huge financial Background .(not talking about schemes like KLM or Lufthansa )
I would say there jobs out ,small first underpaid but good to experience the "whole " aviation "Circus".
In my eyes noone can take u the experienc flying nighcargo on a shorts or Dornier europewide.
At least you can tell ,when youre a senior on a bigger Airliner or Business Jet ,your stories to a young chap next to you .
I understand the difficulty of all newbies ,but even we with hours have Prooblems since the big word worldwide is "Saving/reducing costs ".
Head up ,all will be good .
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upwhereIbelong
You make a great point with the "circus"
A friend of mine who flies corporate was telling me the best routes to go down once i complete my training over in the USA. He said about doing the bush flying, night freights and other "smaller" type flying such as "bus" services in the far away tropics just to build up the hours and experience.
I dont see myself coming out of training and suddenly finding myself in the right hand seat of a A320 === i cant afford to pay for that chance!!!!
Head is always up
You make a great point with the "circus"
A friend of mine who flies corporate was telling me the best routes to go down once i complete my training over in the USA. He said about doing the bush flying, night freights and other "smaller" type flying such as "bus" services in the far away tropics just to build up the hours and experience.
I dont see myself coming out of training and suddenly finding myself in the right hand seat of a A320 === i cant afford to pay for that chance!!!!
Head is always up
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Ok, if that is a valid post by greencard.
It is hard without experience. But, jobs are coming through now. This being seen on the various websites.
Perhaps the ONLY way now is to subscribe to a Line Training provider such as Eagle Jet or Fly A320 et al. If you have expeerience at least you can apply.
It is hard without experience. But, jobs are coming through now. This being seen on the various websites.
Perhaps the ONLY way now is to subscribe to a Line Training provider such as Eagle Jet or Fly A320 et al. If you have expeerience at least you can apply.
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big airlines now lose money.near 1 billion each . (BA, AF, JAL, Qantas,AA...)
How stupid of them!
BA hit a 10% operating margin this quarter with revenues up across the board. IAG dipped to 5.8% over all with the losses from Iberia.
Please don't post 'throw away' figures that aren't true.
As to the Aircraft manufactures 'predictions' they don't take into account aircraft downtime, maintenance, crewing levels, rosters etc. etc. etc. They place a crewing figure per hull and an annual utilisation rate per hull and then multiply that by the predicited number of hull sales per annum.
Most certainly not scientific and almost certainly way over optimistic.
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pilot shortage? Yes
Pilot shortage? Yes, but it only applies to those experience pilots who has 1'000s of hours.
For freshly 300 hours cpl/ir pilots, there are stockpiles of them. Enough to create an airline of their own. It is the first hurdle that is the hardest!
Asia and Mid. East are recruiting, but they want experienced flyers. They don't want freshly graduated pilots because they have their own local ppl. There is some exceptions though, cx and ka.
For freshly 300 hours cpl/ir pilots, there are stockpiles of them. Enough to create an airline of their own. It is the first hurdle that is the hardest!
Asia and Mid. East are recruiting, but they want experienced flyers. They don't want freshly graduated pilots because they have their own local ppl. There is some exceptions though, cx and ka.
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And what about experimented pilots who don't find a job due to p2f pilots?
Stop to believe it s greener in Asia or middle east.
Airlines want your money....no money = no job....p2f ok!
Stop to believe it s greener in Asia or middle east.
Airlines want your money....no money = no job....p2f ok!
Last edited by wingreencard; 20th Apr 2012 at 09:59.
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Its tough to join direct on a big airliner in my eyes if you dont have a huge financial Background .(not talking about schemes like KLM or Lufthansa )
I would say there jobs out ,small first underpaid but good to experience the "whole " aviation "Circus".
In my eyes noone can take u the experienc flying nighcargo on a shorts or Dornier europewide.
At least you can tell ,when youre a senior on a bigger Airliner or Business Jet ,your stories to a young chap next to you .
I would say there jobs out ,small first underpaid but good to experience the "whole " aviation "Circus".
In my eyes noone can take u the experienc flying nighcargo on a shorts or Dornier europewide.
At least you can tell ,when youre a senior on a bigger Airliner or Business Jet ,your stories to a young chap next to you .
It is now far easier than it has ever been for a 250h CPL/IR holder to get a job with Ryanair (via CAE) or Easyjet (via CTC). You just have to be the right person. And that right sort of person is aged under 30, willing to work for a pittance and be dicked around like something chronic. Oh, and having £30K in the bank for your TR also helps.
It is sad that airlines don't view GA experience as useful any more, despite many GA pilots that I know being raised in a multi-crew culture with very high standards of training. Fortunately, the corporate world does recognise this experience- although not having the right TR is the usual barrier to entry to this career.
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Wx Man,
Well said!
In a world run by beanstealers, many airlines aren't interested in ability or experience but by cost... And like other industries, the 'onion continues to be peeled' and the 'cheese slices lined up' by ignorant management/accountants who don't possess basic business acumen. A safe airline is a profitable airline and a happy workforce is a productive workforce. Something lost on the corporates that cannot understand anything unless it's displayed in a pie chart...
An excellent reputatation and customer service means passengers would return every time. Someone once said that it takes a lifetime to build a good reputation and two seconds to destroy it - or words to that effect. Unfortuneatly, with the increasing number of incidents that we are seeing amongst the UK low cost carriers, I fear that we're almost reaching the 'Colgan point'...
If anyone thinks otherwise, they're highly naive.
With respect to employment, it's about access to cold hard cash and for the immediate future it shall remain so. I don't believe this is forever, but for the next few years those with the pennies will be those getting the jobs. That's the reality - suck it up and make the best of your situation.
Good luck!
Well said!
In a world run by beanstealers, many airlines aren't interested in ability or experience but by cost... And like other industries, the 'onion continues to be peeled' and the 'cheese slices lined up' by ignorant management/accountants who don't possess basic business acumen. A safe airline is a profitable airline and a happy workforce is a productive workforce. Something lost on the corporates that cannot understand anything unless it's displayed in a pie chart...
An excellent reputatation and customer service means passengers would return every time. Someone once said that it takes a lifetime to build a good reputation and two seconds to destroy it - or words to that effect. Unfortuneatly, with the increasing number of incidents that we are seeing amongst the UK low cost carriers, I fear that we're almost reaching the 'Colgan point'...
If anyone thinks otherwise, they're highly naive.
With respect to employment, it's about access to cold hard cash and for the immediate future it shall remain so. I don't believe this is forever, but for the next few years those with the pennies will be those getting the jobs. That's the reality - suck it up and make the best of your situation.
Good luck!
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There will have to be a big crash before anyone in authority does something about p2f and airlines full of captains who have only been a pilot for 3 years. Shame it has to be this way but it's the only way people will listen.
I was reading a blog the other day and somebody said there will be a shortage of pilots in the business jet area. Apparently something like 96% of FTO graduates head to airlines rather than private jets and they will have to encourage new pilots to head into that industry within a few years. Don't know what data is behind those stats though.
I was reading a blog the other day and somebody said there will be a shortage of pilots in the business jet area. Apparently something like 96% of FTO graduates head to airlines rather than private jets and they will have to encourage new pilots to head into that industry within a few years. Don't know what data is behind those stats though.
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Pilot Shortage?!?!?!?!?!?
Tell that to the multiple XL captains I know who cannot even get a job as an FO.
Tell that to several integrated fATPL holders I know working their bottoms off as cabin-crew.
Tell that to my two friends who self-funded A320 TRs and cannot get an interview between here and Japan.
Tell that to the flight schools too busy to take on modular students.
Pilot shortage?
And the Euro will survive, oil prices will drop, airlines will pay for TRs, Iran will let inspectors in......
Tell that to the multiple XL captains I know who cannot even get a job as an FO.
Tell that to several integrated fATPL holders I know working their bottoms off as cabin-crew.
Tell that to my two friends who self-funded A320 TRs and cannot get an interview between here and Japan.
Tell that to the flight schools too busy to take on modular students.
Pilot shortage?
And the Euro will survive, oil prices will drop, airlines will pay for TRs, Iran will let inspectors in......
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UK GA sick but not dead - yet!
Agree with Wxman for most part but it is more like £100k to £120k for CTC course and then join MON/EZY etc for low/unpaid 6 months (just expenses at MON) before back to dole queue.
However, even in the UK there are a few GA jobs - mostly light twin props flying freight etc.
Some flight schools still advertising for instructors. AERO 2012 at Friedrichshafen showed GA is not dead in the EU.
Better to be flying something than dreaming of Type Ratings and being fleeced by "schools" promising the earth......
However, even in the UK there are a few GA jobs - mostly light twin props flying freight etc.
Some flight schools still advertising for instructors. AERO 2012 at Friedrichshafen showed GA is not dead in the EU.
Better to be flying something than dreaming of Type Ratings and being fleeced by "schools" promising the earth......
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My concern with getting into GA is that I'll never progress onto an airline job when I want to. I'd rather fly GA for some years first. But airlines want Mr. 250hrs for the right seat and Mr. Experienced for the left.
I'm afraid I'd get stuck in a GA loop which I'll struggle to break out of.
I'm afraid I'd get stuck in a GA loop which I'll struggle to break out of.
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Agree with Wxman for most part but it is more like £100k to £120k for CTC course and then join MON/EZY etc for low/unpaid 6 months (just expenses at MON) before back to dole queue.
£85,000-£90,000 for the course (all in) and then a Free type rating with MON and around £2000 a month net including the return of part of the training costs (bond,) and then a very good chance (100% last year) of a contract at the end of the placement period or (worst case,) around 500 hours on type and a fresh OPC/LPC.